Frustrating North Florida dealers

[Herm]

you may think greed is a societal inevitability, good ethics, or how you want to live your life. But is is still greed.

Greed is good, its what keeps humanity advancing.. otherwise you would still be making minimum wage like when you were a teenager slinging hamburgers at McDonalds. If it wasn't for greed we would all still be living in grass huts by a river. Is that clear?

 

[hodad66]

sure is clear that corporate greed has removed jobs from our
nation while paying obscene salaries to CEO's.

 

[Train]

Seems Nissan likes to pay "obscene" CEO salaries as well.

 

[thankyouOB]

you may think greed is a societal inevitability, good ethics, or how you want to live your life. But is is still greed.

Greed is good, its what keeps humanity advancing.. otherwise you would still be making minimum wage like when you were a teenager slinging hamburgers at McDonalds. If it wasn't for greed we would all still be living in grass huts by a river. Is that clear?

It must be sad to be you.

 

[Train]

So thankyouob, are actors greedy? Is the CEO of Nissan greedy?

 

[TRONZ]

As long as someone can make a buck from it, anything goes, eh Train

 

[Train]

That's not what I stated. You're being disingenuous. OB can't answer the questions because he knows it makes hypocrites of all of us. Picking and choosing ones own pet peeve (in this case, dealer mark up) and ignoring the rest doesn't support your argument. You know darn well that anyone who sells their house takes the highest offer, not the lowest. "Oh, it's greedy to accept $270,000, instead of $255,000. We'll take the lower offer."

Oh, but when a dealer wants to price it at market value, somehow that crosses some moral line. Any of you sell anything on ebay to the lowest bidder lately?

Greedy, I tell ya.

 

[hodad66]

as long as corporations can buy; the supreme court, legislators, air time,
gun lobbies, church lobbies, the middle class is doomed.

As to pay scales.... yea, they are out of sinc.....
everything could be cheaper and should be.

 

[TRONZ]

Train, gouging is essentially forced bidding. This is fine if people are supposed to be bidding on their LEAFs. This is not what Nissan intended with the ordering process.

 

[thankyouOB]

That's not what I stated. You're being disingenuous. OB can't answer the questions because he knows it makes hypocrites of all of us. Picking and choosing ones own pet peeve (in this case, dealer mark up) and ignoring the rest doesn't support your argument. You know darn well that anyone who sells their house takes the highest offer, not the lowest. "Oh, it's greedy to accept $270,000, instead of $255,000. We'll take the lower offer."

Oh, but when a dealer wants to price it at market value, somehow that crosses some moral line. Any of you sell anything on ebay to the lowest bidder lately?

Greedy, I tell ya.

take your ditto-head philosopy to Palm Beach and worship at the giant mansion of your guru.
as others have already said, we are talking about Nissan and its efforts to keep dealers from gouging, not the discussion you want to have about capitalism and whether Galtian rules, and the greed and selfishness that underlies it, should be worshipped by all of us.
some of us choose not to live our lives that way.

 

[Train]

take your ditto-head philosopy to Palm Beach and worship at the giant mansion of your guru.
as others have already said, we are talking about Nissan and its efforts to keep dealers from gouging, not the discussion you want to have about capitalism and whether Galtian rules, and the greed and selfishness that underlies it, should be worshipped by all of us.
some of us choose not to live our lives that way.

In other words, because you disagree with my position, you create a red herring and refer to something else that has no relevance to this discussion.

I didn't mention capitalism. I didn't mention a radio talk show host. I didn't mention worshipping anything. Perhaps you'd like to discuss these topics but that's not what I was discussing. I was responding to a poster who mentioned how greedy it was for dealers who ask for more than MSRP. I'm giving an alternative viewpoint to his. I thought that's what a discussion forum was for.

It doesn't bolster your point of view to use logical fallacies and only makes your argument weaker. Kind of like the person that resorts to swearing. You haven't answered or addressed any of the questions or made a reasoned response so that pretty much concludes what I thought.

This isn't pricing for water or food after a hurricane. This is a car. I understand what Nissan's intent was when they created this system. My simple answer to that is to go to another dealer. But since the poster mentioned greedy dealers and reasonable profit, the discussed points are fair game.

Will no one rescue potential buyers from these greedy dealers? PLEASE! If you are a North Florida Nissan dealer, and you can guarantee with an email that I can order a Leaf through your dealership with a zero dealer fee, destination of $850 or less (as advertised), tax, tag and title fees as shown on the Florida DMV site and MSRP (which I know gives you at least a REASONABLE profit plus the dealer holdback of 2.8 percent!) I am your customer! They do this in California apparently, why not Florida?

 

[thankyouOB]

Here is a short excerpt from some of the off-topic issues and red herrings -- from actors to a Democratic politician's husband -- you introduced to this discussion of dealer gouging:

So are A list actors greedy? Are professional athletes? Nancy Pelosi's husband? The CEO of NIssan made $10 million dollars in 2009. Isn't he greedy?

So what is the line of demarcation for greed? What's the difference between "reasonable" profit and greed?

Did you spend your extra money for a non essential item, product, and service or did you give the rest of your paycheck to a homeless shelter? Isn't it greedy not to give the rest to someone in need?

you must have forgotten what you had written.
I just put the appropriate labels on what you were doing; pushing your Galtian, market-is-king, right-wing philosopy.

 

[Volusiano]

I think at the heart of the issue here is what is a reasonable and fair price. When manufacturers design the MSRP price point, they already made sure that there's enough profit margin in there to sustain a healthy business for dealers. So when neither side can agree on what a fair price is, the MSRP can serve as a reference point for what a fair and reasonable price can be.

So instead of centering the argument we have here around greediness, we should center the argument around what is a reasonable price for the Leaf given the demand. And as long as there's disagreement, the only price both sides can converge on as being a reasonable fair price, even if they don't agree with it, is the MSRP.

So what some posters here are saying is that "Hey, if I'm being reasonable by being willing to pay MSRP, why can't dealers be reasonable back and be willing to sell at MSRP?"

And yes, the CEO of Nissan and athletes and movie stars are being reasonable making the kind of money they make because that's the standard of pay they're expected to be making.

And yes, a worker is being reasonable for socking away their savings instead of giving it all to charity because that's what expected of them.

 

[thankyouOB]

Greed is good, its what keeps humanity advancing.. otherwise you would still be making minimum wage like when you were a teenager slinging hamburgers at McDonalds. If it wasn't for greed we would all still be living in grass huts by a river. Is that clear?

If you think greed rules our world, read this:
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/a-returning-solider-answers-the-inevitable-question-why/?src=twr

 

[Train]

another greed head pimping for the car dealers.

TYOB,

Did you not write this? You call me a greedhead and expect me not to ask for an explanation and comparisons? I don't work for any car dealers. I wouldn't pay $500 "doc fees." I'd walk.

You call me a greedhead but aren't willing to discuss what a greedhead is. So I ask you questions trying to define it. Your deflection and failure to answer speaks volumes.

Volusiano,

I understand what you're trying to say. But isn't a car dealer entitled to make more money the same way an athlete and actor demand more money? Actors and athletes say, I'm worth more because of XYZ so pay me. The car dealer and salesperson is saying, we have a hot commodity, so pay me. This happens all the time. Why are hotel rates different for different days and weeks during the year? Why are some shows and games sold out for higher ticket prices and some are still available even though they're lower? Why is property on the CA coastline worth more than inland? Demand and value, plain and simple.

Because the buyer has the expectation of "reasonable" doesn't mean the seller has the same expectation. Most, if not all products are market driven. When the new Iphones came out, people had to pay a premium to get one. That's the price of wanting the latest, greatest technology. To expect a high demand product for what one decides to be a "reasonable" price is unrealistic. If the guy behind you is willing to pay $700 for the Iphone, they are not going to sell it to yu for $200.

So dealers are tacking on fees, ADM, whatever you want to call it. That's the price of admission to get the whiz bang electric technology.

Again, the consumer has the choice. One can call the dealer "greedy", walk away and find another dealer. Or, wait until the fuss settles down and buy the car when demand is less and you've got more negotiating power.

Nissan initiated this order system to perhaps form an orderly line to the product, but eventually, these cars will be sold on dealers lots like they always have.

 

[thankyouOB]

you can find the definition of greed head in here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-real-grand-bargain-coming-undone/2011/08/19/gIQA8wYiQJ_story_1.html

it is not too long, but it requires you to place the gouging of some dealers within the framework of what Nissan's well-intended order system was trying to accomplish, and then within the larger efforts of society to limit the well-known and frequent abuses of the unregulated marketplace.

(apologies for boring the rest of you, but their is consensus here that dealer gouging has no place in the Nissan ordering system, and I have the time and take on the challenge of calling out its apologists.)

 

[Herm]

It must be sad to be you.

I much prefer to be greedy than a hypocrite.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

TYOB, no apologies necessary. I couldn't find a dealer here who would discount off MSRP; if I can't get 5-10% off sticker I call that gouging.

Herm, your efforts to educate are laudable, but you just can't fight the central planners.

 

[hodad66]

My parents were life-long democrats. My dad was a business owner
but his level of self interest never would have been called greed.
Now selfish greed is the byword of the right. No such thing as a
"decent" profit anymore.

 

[keydiver]

Back on topic: has anyone found any South Florida dealers who are NOT charging a dealer fee? Wallace Nissan in Stuart, the dealer that presently has my order adds $599 to all cars. I need to check the dealer down in Riviera Beach this week.