Gasoline May Rise Above $5 a Gallon

[greengate]

The problem is it has always been to low.

Should have been $10 a gallon, ($8 of which would have been taxes,) after the oil embargo in the late 70's. If so we would not be in the mess we are in today with crumbling roads, bridges and dependance on crude oil.

We'd have high speed rail, electric and hydrogen vehicles as well as solar panels on most every roof.

Coal fired power plants would be a thing of the past.

Want a pickup truck..prove the actual need or pay an additional $10 grand for the vehicle. Leave your gun rack at home, (mount it above the bed,) and drive an electric vehicle.

Leaf's should be as prominent as the '49 VW Bugs were in their day..and that would make my day if they were!!

 

[apvbguy]

The problem is it has always been to low.

Should have been $10 a gallon, ($8 of which would have been taxes,) after the oil embargo in the late 70's. If so we would not be in the mess we are in today with crumbling roads, bridges and dependance on crude oil.

you do realize that almost everything you buy is brought to your store via trucks that would be paying that $8. in taxes, and you do realize that those taxes would just be passed onto the consumer?
please stop spouting this half baked ideological nonsense

 

[greengate]

The problem is it has always been to low.

Should have been $10 a gallon, ($8 of which would have been taxes,) after the oil embargo in the late 70's. If so we would not be in the mess we are in today with crumbling roads, bridges and dependance on crude oil.

you do realize that almost everything you buy is brought to your store via trucks that would be paying that $8. in taxes, and you do realize that those taxes would just be passed onto the consumer?
please stop spouting this half baked ideological nonsense

It's only ideological because it has not been done.

If we were to invest in our country and not spend half of our funds on the military, there would be millions working with decent paying jobs who would then have no problem paying more for the cost of goods. Trucking fuel mileage has continued to increase and many have converted to compressed natural gas.

What I have said is not nonsense and it needs to be done as we are in a race to the bottom with the current situation...in almost every category from health care to education.

 

[apvbguy]

What I have said is not nonsense and it needs to be done as we are in a race to the bottom with the current situation...in almost every category from health care to education.

IMHO we are speeding over the abyss because of the terrible leadership that shares some of the views that you've expressed

 

[dgpcolorado]

The problem is it has always been to low.

Should have been $10 a gallon, ($8 of which would have been taxes,) after the oil embargo in the late 70's. If so we would not be in the mess we are in today with crumbling roads, bridges and dependance on crude oil...

My idea back during the '70s oil shocks was a 10¢/gallon per year tax increase to gradually increase the price without economic dislocation. After ten years the $1/gallon price increase would have provided plenty of incentive for more fuel efficient cars and, perhaps, lead to alternatives. By 1978 I was bicycle commuting (seventeen miles a day at that point), so I was trying to do my part.

But, as you know, the oil shocks were short-lived, the shortages abated, and we mostly went back to profligate usage. Now, with increasing domestic production, there seems to be little reason for oil prices to rise, barring a very severe international crisis. The $5/gallon gas — predicted here in 2011 — doesn't seem to be likely for the time being (and wouldn't change behavior much since we've gotten used to current prices in the three to four dollar range).

EVs, at least in the USA, will need to make it on their own merits.

 

[WetEV]

Now, with increasing domestic production, there seems to be little reason for oil prices to rise, barring a very severe international crisis. The $5/gallon gas — predicted here in 2011 — doesn't seem to be likely for the time being (and wouldn't change behavior much since we've gotten used to current prices in the three to four dollar range).

EVs, at least in the USA, will need to make it on their own merits.

I mostly agree, however the increased domestic production is higher cost, and will be an increase for a decade: short term, not long term. History will repeat, as oil and gas will drop in price, but not to as low inflation adjusted as the last drop before spiking again to inflation adjusted even higher prices.

World consumption is also no longer dominated by the USA, as China is buying more cars ever year than the USA ever did, and most of these are new drivers, in other words, not replacement cars.

Lastly, climate change. Thirty years ago, was subtle evidence, mostly of distant past of climate change. Now, is fairly clear that the climate is warmer than it was 30 years ago. Thirty years in the future, the skeptic case will unbelievable, even by these that want oh so very much to believe it. How will the world respond: Carbon tax? Market for carbon emission allowances? Flat banning of some types of carbon releases? Same world wide, or different in different countries? I don't even care to guess, but any of them will make driving a fossil fueled car, at best, very expensive.

 

[Nubo]

The problem is it has always been to low.

Should have been $10 a gallon, ($8 of which would have been taxes,) after the oil embargo in the late 70's. If so we would not be in the mess we are in today with crumbling roads, bridges and dependance on crude oil.

you do realize that almost everything you buy is brought to your store via trucks that would be paying that $8. in taxes, and you do realize that those taxes would just be passed onto the consumer?
please stop spouting this half baked ideological nonsense

You're as pleasant as ever. Who is paying the trillions of dollars in costs and damages incurred by our continued overuse of petroleum? Those costs have been passed on to the consumer, AND their descendants.

 

[apvbguy]

You're as pleasant as ever. Who is paying the trillions of dollars in costs and damages incurred by our continued overuse of petroleum? Those costs have been passed on to the consumer, AND their descendants.

you are spouting your usual hyperbole, I guess living in dark caves would solve everything

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The problem is it has always been to low.

Should have been $10 a gallon, ($8 of which would have been taxes,) after the oil embargo in the late 70's. If so we would not be in the mess we are in today with crumbling roads, bridges and dependance on crude oil.

you do realize that almost everything you buy is brought to your store via trucks that would be paying that $8. in taxes, and you do realize that those taxes would just be passed onto the consumer?
please stop spouting this half baked ideological nonsense

actually, that would not be reality. businesses will not simply "pay it and gripe" they will simply move on to cheaper sources of transportation. gasoline has been so cheap that we are under the impression that truckers are there because there is no other option. that is not the case. when carbon based fuel is billed at its true costs, options will be popping up all over the place

 

[apvbguy]

actually, that would not be reality. businesses will not simply "pay it and gripe" they will simply move on to cheaper sources of transportation. gasoline has been so cheap that we are under the impression that truckers are there because there is no other option. that is not the case. when carbon based fuel is billed at its true costs, options will be popping up all over the place

please elaborate on these other options? do they include hay burners?

 

[greengate]

actually, that would not be reality. businesses will not simply "pay it and gripe" they will simply move on to cheaper sources of transportation. gasoline has been so cheap that we are under the impression that truckers are there because there is no other option. that is not the case. when carbon based fuel is billed at its true costs, options will be popping up all over the place

please elaborate on these other options? do they include hay burners?

 

[greengate]

actually, that would not be reality. businesses will not simply "pay it and gripe" they will simply move on to cheaper sources of transportation. gasoline has been so cheap that we are under the impression that truckers are there because there is no other option. that is not the case. when carbon based fuel is billed at its true costs, options will be popping up all over the place

please elaborate on these other options? do they include hay burners?

APVBGUY,

Are you driving an electric vehicle?

 

[apvbguy]

APVBGUY,

Are you driving an electric vehicle?

yes, 3 et tu?

 

[GRA]

actually, that would not be reality. businesses will not simply "pay it and gripe" they will simply move on to cheaper sources of transportation. gasoline has been so cheap that we are under the impression that truckers are there because there is no other option. that is not the case. when carbon based fuel is billed at its true costs, options will be popping up all over the place

please elaborate on these other options? do they include hay burners?

It's certainly possible to revert to the prevailing practice prior to automobiles, i.e.; railroads (which can be electrified) for long haul, and instead of horse-drawn wagons use trucks (which can be electric or what have you) for short-haul transport from station to warehouse or destination; this was the model used in the early days of trucking until both trucks and roads improved to where they could compete on cost with railroads. That would probably also require an increase in warehouse space and a decrease in just-in-time practices, as before the door-to-door capability of truck transport warehouses typically held much higher inventories (on multiple floors); after the advent of trucks for direct service, warehouses became mainly transfer points, and were designed as unobstructed single floors with docks at truckbed height to minimize transhipping time.

Water transport can use other than fossil fuels or else just use cleaner ones, and if they must use fossil fuels, shipping costs in some cases may lead to more on-shoring of work. That's a bit unlikely, as shipping costs (using containers) are so much lower than any form of land transport that it makes up just a tiny fraction of the total cost. Using electric-powered trains would help narrow that gap, assuming the electricity for the trains isn't fossil-fueled.

There would also be a decrease in volume of air freight, barring development of low-cost drop-in biofuels or some such, but many of the things that formerly needed to move by air may be cheaper to produce using 3D printing or what have you closer to the destination.

In short, we have (or can have) options, although we need to begin using them now rather than later so we don't have to try and transition all at once in a crisis, or else see the economy collapse. I think we've seen enough repeats of that movie in my lifetime.

 

[Nubo]

You're as pleasant as ever. Who is paying the trillions of dollars in costs and damages incurred by our continued overuse of petroleum? Those costs have been passed on to the consumer, AND their descendants.

you are spouting your usual hyperbole, I guess living in dark caves would solve everything

You don't have to guess.

How about Europe, where the price of gasoline more accurately reflects its true cost to society. Are they living in dark caves? How about Venezuela where they pay practically nothing? Is it like the Emerald City there?

http://chartsbin.com/view/1115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Compare to the Human Development Index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[electricfuture]

Gasoline will definitely go over $5/gal but not why you may think. It is really directly related to increased efficiency of gasoline engines. The more efficient they are the higher gasoline will cost so the oil companies can maintain their profits.

Here is a chart showing increased car/truck engine efficiency:https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...bAi41_uULzCW5k1WYf4wluLz0aKlu4zdd3Y5sex6GnPSg

Miles traveled have leveled off: https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...008YGW_IwdEMvBs4PLPy5nb3e06uF2hknkl6BC7ebge7Q

But gas prices have increased to insure oil company profits are not effected:

The sad truth is that the more electric vehicles there are on the road the higher gasoline prices will go to "make up the difference".

 

[apvbguy]

You're as pleasant as ever. Who is paying the trillions of dollars in costs and damages incurred by our continued overuse of petroleum? Those costs have been passed on to the consumer, AND their descendants.

you are spouting your usual hyperbole, I guess living in dark caves would solve everything

You don't have to guess.

How about Europe, where the price of gasoline more accurately reflects its true cost to society. Are they living in dark caves? How about Venezuela where they pay practically nothing? Is it like the Emerald City there?

http://chartsbin.com/view/1115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Compare to the Human Development Index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

europe uses their obscenely high fuel taxes to fund politically motivated social programs, and venezuela may sell their fuel dirt cheap but their economy is a shambles
I don't think that you're really for emulating those examples of energy policies

 

[GRA]

Gasoline will definitely go over $5/gal but not why you may think. It is really directly related to increased efficiency of gasoline engines. The more efficient they are the higher gasoline will cost so the oil companies can maintain their profits.

<snip chart>

But gas prices have increased to insure oil company profits are not effected:

<snip chart>

The sad truth is that the more electric vehicles there are on the road the higher gasoline prices will go to "make up the difference".

You don't see any flaws in your reasoning?

 

[apvbguy]

Gasoline will definitely go over $5/gal but not why you may think. It is really directly related to increased efficiency of gasoline engines. The more efficient they are the higher gasoline will cost so the oil companies can maintain their profits.

so much for your ideological backed theories

 

[Nubo]

You don't have to guess.

How about Europe, where the price of gasoline more accurately reflects its true cost to society. Are they living in dark caves? How about Venezuela where they pay practically nothing? Is it like the Emerald City there?

http://chartsbin.com/view/1115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Compare to the Human Development Index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

europe uses their obscenely high fuel taxes to fund politically motivated social programs, and venezuela may sell their fuel dirt cheap but their economy is a shambles
I don't think that you're really for emulating those examples of energy policies

Your assertion was that higher gasoline taxes would take us back to the stone age and living in dark caves. The data do not support that.