Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[IBELEAF]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

 

[edatoakrun]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

I'd expect that could only be possible (using only electricity) if you drive both cars almost exclusively at low speed, with much stop-and-go, and with a great deal of ascent and descent.

 

[LEAFer]

Ideal (nirvana ... utopia ... ultimate): with the multiple vehicles the average US (and many other western countries') household tend to have ...

1. may the EREV (Volt) you purchase (or lease) be replacing the LAST (pure) ICE you ever own (or lease). And
2. may said EREV be running electric for all but your infrequent road trips. :mrgreen:

"Example" Household:

BEV  : 3.54 years, 56.9k miles.   100% Electric.  Used:  0.0gals
BEV  : 1.66 years, 25.7k miles.   100% Electric.  Used:  0.0gals
EREV : 1.47 years, 15.4k miles.  83.2% Electric.  Used: 70.3gals
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAST   1.47 years= 55.3k miles.   4.7% Electric.        70.3gals  *

And, yes, our EREV is a Volt.

Our future: 3 cars, ~38k annual miles, ~95% Electric, ~2k gas miles, ~50 gallons of premium gasoline per year.

*Computing a total for gasoline use over the entire 3.54 year period is "unfair" since the ICE usage between 3.54 years ago and 1.47 years ago was not recorded. The 4.7% Electric is over the last 1.47 years and was tracked carefully.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

i would have found it shocking to see them equal since the Volt's EV system has to mingle with the gas engine, torque converter, tranny, etc. all of which loses a little something and its simply more stuff to spin up.

with the LEAF its motor to wheel. the only loss is the motor which is 99.something another efficient and battery to motor losses which is also very highly efficient.

plus the car is heavier and the BMS must have a larger footprint. i will say that 20-30% is a bit more than i was expecting

 

[scottf200]

since this thread has kinda degenerated into "my car is great, your car is worthless" vein.

Yes, edatoakrun, is doing everything in his power to do this regardless of the number of LEAF owners who also have bought the Volt and have shared their positive views. Or the only LEAF owners who have become more open minded after 3 model years of the Volt have been out and are performing well in all areas of the country.

 

[GRA]

Quite frankly, I think using the combined number for the Volt is kind of meaningless, especially with the Hold feature on the 2013s (2011-2012 would use Mountain mode instead, and not get the full benefit of this approach). I doubt there are many people who spend more than 35-40 miles in stop-and-go traffic every day. I know if I had a Volt and a commute beyond AER, I'd be in hold for high-speed freeway commuting until the remaining range shrank below my AER, and revert to CD-mode then or when it backs up, so the Volt would only be burning gas under Highway conditions. Seems a no-brainer to me, and Honda and Ford seem to have gone the same way (with a different implementation) on their PHEVs.

 

[scottf200]

So we went out to dinner (German) with friends last night. I enjoyed some Octoberfest freshments and decided it was best if wife drove home. We (she) couldn't quite make it home without gas and used 0.07 gallons. I went out the garage this morning to head out to play racquetball. Saw the car was not plugged in. Dang it. Oh well no reason to take our ICE only vehicle and I get to see what kinds of gas mileage I get.

1st short ride is me forgetting my water bottle so I came back to the house. Thought the SOCs were interesting.

Used 0.46 gallons to go 21.08 miles for 45.82 MPG. Drove it in SPORTs mode and didn't coddle it either!
.

 

[JeffN]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

I don't own a LEAF (although I rented one for a few days on a business trip). I'm getting 4 miles per kWh at the wall on my regular commute (48 miles of range on 12.25 kWh or so). That's like doing 100% charge on a LEAF of around 25 kWh and getting around 98 miles of range. That's on 2011 Volt that is rated at 94 MPGe. The 2013 Volt is around 4-5% more efficient and is rated at 98 MPGe (LEAF is rated as 99 MPGe).

In other words, I think they are effectively about the same. Certainly way closer than 20-30%. The LEAF is better at city driving with lots of stop and go and the Volt is maybe a little better on the highway.

 

[CarZin]

I'm not entirely sure the Leaf is noticeable more efficient than the Volt. I have owned since January 7. During the hot summer, I have been about 30 kWh/100 miles and getting consistantly over 40 miles (I would say an average of 42 miles) out of my 9.7 kWhs. I don't know how much of a difference this is in recapturing energy, but the Volt has MUCH stronger regenerative braking than the Leaf. When I swapped my Volt for a Leaf for a day, I was surprised at the lack of braking on the Leaf compared to the Volt.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

So we went out to dinner (German) with friends last night. I enjoyed some Octoberfest freshments and decided it was best if wife drove home. We (she) couldn't quite make it home without gas and used 0.07 gallons. I went out the garage this morning to head out to play racquetball. Saw the car was not plugged in. Dang it. Oh well no reason to take our ICE only vehicle and I get to see what kinds of gas mileage I get.

1st short ride is me forgetting my water bottle so I came back to the house. Thought the SOCs were interesting.

Used 0.46 gallons to go 21.08 miles for 45.82 MPG. Drove it in SPORTs mode and didn't coddle it either!
.

so return trip car was warmed up since it got 50 mpg? very nice for in town driving!

obtw; at my house, if i dont plug it in, it doesnt get plugged in which is why i trained my Son to do it

http://youtu.be/Bbzw8AEeYh0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[SanDust]

While the combined MPGe numbers for the Leaf and Volt are close, the Volt is more efficient at higher speeds and the Leaf at lower speeds. You can see that in EPA numbers. When you drive the Leaf you can almost feel the inefficiencies of the single reduction gear as you go above 65 MPH (you can see it as the bars drop as well). The Leaf also sits higher, which gives you more interior room and headroom but doesn't do anything for the frontal area.

 

[DrInnovation]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

Since you've owned both, your statement has some added weight. What is your driving route/experience? How are you measuring efficient (from wall, or what the car reports). Are you driving both cars the same, or are you using that added HP to accelerate faster/drive faster (its really easy to get carried away in the Volt).

My EV MPGe for August 2012 was 130.07. Mostly my daily commute with 1000ft elevation change and 45mph limits on most of it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

Since you've owned both, your statement has some added weight. What is your driving route/experience? How are you measuring efficient (from wall, or what the car reports). Are you driving both cars the same, or are you using that added HP to accelerate faster/drive faster (its really easy to get carried away in the Volt).

My EV MPGe for August 2012 was 130.07. Mostly my daily commute with 1000ft elevation change and 45mph limits on most of it.

wondering if the knowledge that one can fall back on gas means subconsciously one drives less efficiently in the Volt than they would in a limited range EV where driving efficiently can be the difference between 65 miles or 90 miles?

 

[CarZin]

Probably does for some. For me, rarely. Normally, I am the one trying to keep the efficiency ball centered, and let the regenerative braking do all the work, and set cruise control on the highway. I do worry less about climate control. I always run it in comfort mode.

 

[DrInnovation]

I am finding that Volt is roughly 20-30% less efficient then Leaf. Is this everyone else experience? I guess it's expected because it is heavier with more hp.

Since you've owned both, your statement has some added weight. What is your driving route/experience? How are you measuring efficient (from wall, or what the car reports). Are you driving both cars the same, or are you using that added HP to accelerate faster/drive faster (its really easy to get carried away in the Volt).

My EV MPGe for August 2012 was 130.07. Mostly my daily commute with 1000ft elevation change and 45mph limits on most of it.

wondering if the knowledge that one can fall back on gas means subconsciously one drives less efficiently in the Volt than they would in a limited range EV where driving efficiently can be the difference between 65 miles or 90 miles?

Since I've not driven a BEV I cannot be sure.. true range anxiety must be worse than gas anxiety, but i could just as easily postulate that the extra big battery of the BEV can make people less efficient because they routinely have excess battery range, e.g. see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8793&start=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and don't feel guilt because there is no gas to burn.

Because the volt has less battery range, many people try to milk every bit of it more often. I know I do. If I go down town and run errands like I did today, I need at least 43 miles, and I go to some of my errands I need 50-53 miles and doing it all on EV takes pretty efficient driving. Last month my average was 130MPGe with an overall 25.9 kWh/100 miles measured from the wall, with ~1500 miles, which would be the equivalent of 4.5 or 4.6 on the leaf internal display.

In reality its impractical to generalize without data. I know from the gm-volt site, there many Volt owners that are not worried about EV efficiency, they bought it for other reasons. And for them I would agree with your postulate. But many there talk about gas anxiety and trying to be efficient. What we don't know the fractions within the population. Even the data on Voltstats does not help there since the MPGe data is really just EV%.

 

[MrIanB]

Autoblog.com has an interesting article on VOLT "sales" numbers on their front page.

link: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/20/forbes-columnist-takes-stab-at-gms-scams-with-chevy-vo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ian B

 

[Vlad92]

Hi Guys... so excited... just brought my new Volt home this evening. 2013 base model in red. Bought from a dealer 34 miles away and made it home with charge to spare. Not sure how good my deal was (36 month lease, 10K miles a year, 0 down, $279 / month plus tax)... but bottom line is I'm happy. Initally wanted the Leaf, but distances and infrastructure here in Nebraska won't allow that right now so I went with the Volt. Will post more over the weekend... been a VERY long day.

 

[scottf200]

Hi Guys... so excited... just brought my new Volt home this evening. 2013 base model in red. Bought from a dealer 34 miles away and made it home with charge to spare. Not sure how good my deal was (36 month lease, 10K miles a year, 0 down, $279 / month plus tax)... but bottom line is I'm happy. Initally wanted the Leaf, but distances and infrastructure here in Nebraska won't allow that right now so I went with the Volt. Will post more over the weekend... been a VERY long day.

Congrats. If you have not signed up yet at the main Volt forum http://www.gm-volt.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; go do it. As well you can go to http://www.voltstat.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and sign up to get your driving stats easily uploaded 4 x per day. That site is by a Volt owner and it acts like a phone app to retrieve the same information you can access on your phone. 1600+ people have signed up.

 

[scottf200]

Autoblog.com has an interesting article on VOLT "sales" numbers on their front page.
link: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/20/forbes-columnist-takes-stab-at-gms-scams-with-chevy-vo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ian B

Ian, are you seriously that naive? Almost all cars have leases as options are are counted as sales because they are purchased by a bank/entity and then leased. GM/dealer no longer owns them. This is basic and standard practice. There have been several articles that debunked the latest politics of the lease vs sales. Lot of LEAFs are leased as well.

 

[MrIanB]

Autoblog.com has an interesting article on VOLT "sales" numbers on their front page.
link: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/20/forbes-columnist-takes-stab-at-gms-scams-with-chevy-vo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ian B

Ian, are you seriously that naive? Almost all cars have leases as options are are counted as sales because they are purchased by a bank/entity and then leased. GM/dealer no longer owns them. This is basic and standard practice. There have been several articles that debunked the latest politics of the lease vs sales. Lot of LEAFs are leased as well.

Calm down Scott, I simply put the article for everyone to read. I am impartial either way whether you own a Volt or a Leaf. I read autoblog.com daily and whenever I see an article for either car, I post it.

Hope you enjoying your Volt.

Ian B