Got a demo Leaf from Thursday till Saturday, but had bad day

[Roadburner440]

So been trying to get a Leaf to try it in my everyday life. So far the car has been excellent. I do see what you guys mean now by the grabby brakes. At low speeds the car just sometimes wants to instantly come to a stop. The only way I have found around it thus far is to use the brake VERY carefully.

To get why I have had bad luck the last couple days. We were charging at the Nissan dealer while going over numbers for the lease, money factors, and what have you. While doing the above we had plugged our Volt in to their Aerovironment charger. No biggy, as it was charging. We got done talking numbers, verifying my order information was in their system, and they offered for us to take the loaner till Saturday. I was stoked as I didn't even really go there with that in mind. Either way me and my wife accepted, and signed the loaner responsibility stuff and brought the car home. This is where the problems began.

Keep in mind at this point we had driven our Volt 61 EV miles yesterday, and up until yesterday have had a trouble free 4951 miles with 4260 of those EV. Go to plug the Volt in first since it would take less time to charge than the Leaf. Light went green, horn blinked, started charging, and then flashing yellow/nothing. Did this a couple times. Lights on my charger were still green mind you. At this point I began to get concerned cause now I had a car in the driveway that needed for this charger to work to be of any use to me over the next few days..... So I pulled out the Volts trickle charger, and tried it. Same thing as the 240V. Plugged the 120V charger for the Volt in to the Leaf and the Leaf started charging. Then plugged the L2 SPX in to the Leaf, and it started charging fine as well.

To make a long story short. I took a video to show the Volt techs so they do not think I am crazy. I am pretty certain it is something to do with plugging it in to a different charger (never done that before, it has only ever charged using its own 120 cord, or the SPX 240 at the house its whole life). Not sure what it could have done, but I am hoping it gets resolved while we have the Leaf on loan as I really do not want to have to buy gas.

Other than that though the Leaf has had its own streak of bad luck this morning. I started off with 105 on the GOM @ 100% charge. Drove on I-64 to base, sat in traffic for an hour only to be told because I don't have a pass they must turn me around. So got back on I-64 to 664 to sit in traffic for another hour or so. Got my pass, sat in traffic for about 30 minutes, and finally got to work. It used 4 of its bars, and is showing about 73 miles on the GOM now. Either way I will be driving back home on 64 to go drop the Volt off, come back to work, and go back home again this evening. So the Leaf has quite the day ahead of it with no charging at my work. So here is to hoping I know how to use your guys range chart. :lol: Otherwise if you see a black Leaf on the side of 64 this afternoon you know I failed.

 

[lpickup]

Yeah, I don't know how it is in the Volt, but it does take some time getting used to how quickly the gauge drops in the LEAF. If you're used to looking at a gas gauge, the panic does set in when before you know it you're already down a quarter of a "tank". But that feeling passes and you get used to it, really only paying attention to the # of bars at the beginning of your trip and your halfway point.

Good luck with the Volt. Were the charging stations at the Nissan dealer AV units?

 

[curtegg]

Remember with 100% charge you burn through those first bars quicker because of less regen.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

dont rely on the GOM!!! use the miles /kw rating and assume you have 20 Kw to burn!! for one thing, the GOM will abandon you when you have 1/8th of a tank left anyway. hate to see you park the Leaf when its still got 10 miles left in it!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I started off with 105 on the GOM @ 100% charge..... So here is to hoping I know how to use your guys range chart. :lol: Otherwise if you see a black Leaf on the side of 64 this afternoon you know I failed.

Good luck! Just to be clear, the range chart has nothing to do with the GoM. I actually have my GoM covered.

 

[Roadburner440]

Oops. Did not put the link for the video. Can follow my Volts saga here I guess (and see pictures of the Leaf drive this morning, and me using the Leaf to prod my EVSE). http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?11814-Volt-won-t-charge-after-charging-in-public" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

For me the GOM seems to be pretty accurate thus far. I have been using the 6 miles per bar rule. I know have 4 bars left, and the GOM says I have 35 miles or so. I have taken more pics throughout the day, and will be doing more with the Leaf/EVSE later tonight. I only have a 10.1 mile drive home @55mph (usually though there is wall to wall traffic so it is 15-35mph in reality) so I feel confident the car has at least 24 miles left in it. We shall see. I also have EV NOW's chart, but my speeds have been all over the place today so using the kwh/mi thing (I know not to use the GOM, but going off the miles I have driven and the chart it does seem correct. Thank you guys for ensuring I don't get stranded). This is certaintly not how I wanted my "real live trial with the Leaf in my daily life" to go. I wanted more controlled chaos, but today has been completely uncontrolled. I have logged about 54 miles just this morning between all the driving. I ONLY intended on driving it to and from work today (20 miles total), but that completely got thrown to wind as now it has to fill my Volts shoes. I must say though that after today I am sure I am following through with the car. It is very impressive. Granted the brakes/windshield wipers are annoying, but every car has its quirks. I will let you guys know what the end result is with both the Leaf and the Volt. As far as I am concerned though I have cleared my house, and the problem lies with me using the dealers charger last night. Certaintly glad on I have been on here doing a lot of reading before ever driving the car.

On a side note you guys should really go test drive a Volt. I know you guys like the Leaf's pep, but a Volt in sport mode is something else totally. Not to mention with the wider tires, being lower to the ground, and tighter handling it just feels like a sports car. I do like the size of the Leaf better though, and the arrangement of the center console. It is really a sweet ride, and designed perfectly for around town. At least I have enough spare range in my daily commute to have emergencies like today.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Roadburner440, I think you'll make it fine. Some people really don't like the GOM, but if you can drive relatively consistently with respect to power consumption it has it's value. Mainly I find it difficult to calculate my average speed and average Climate control use to use for the chart because everything changes around here, we have lots of hills and variable speed traffic etc, I find the car's instruments do a better job of averaging all that out than the computer between my ears, but I do mostly ignore the big swings in the GOM as I go up and down hills. I use the chart and bars as a ball park, but if I really need to squeeze out every electron, I cap acceleration to between 2 and 3 bars, keep the MPkW's up over at least 4, zeroing out the trip odometer at the beginning of the trip and add the number to the GOM, keeping the number of total miles within the target destination. You can drive past the "---" of low battery warning to at least what would be zero, and as many people have said quite a bit beyond zero. the trouble with going past actual zero is that if you need to drive up hill or drive really fast, the amount left can very quite a bit and drop off suddenly. I recommend conserving enough energy as you go to avoid going below zero. if you do this you will reliably get where you need to go without stressing about running out of juice... let me rephrase that, after a good month or two, you will stop stressing about it... it's perfectly normal to go through a break in period where you get anxious until you know the car.

 

[Roadburner440]

That is the major difference for me. With the Volt it is a "game" to see how far I can go in EV mode... With the Leaf it is not a "game" because at the end of the battery meter there is turtle, and then nothing. I made it home with 3 of the bars left (1 white, and 2 red) with 26 miles left on the GOM. We are going to go to Wal-Mart which is not even 5 miles away. After that I will charge it. The grand total for today was about 62 miles so far. I am impressed. Especially since I didn't really try to hard to conserve. So I know if I applied the Volt's tactics I could get it higher.

Sooooo question time.. I figured out how to set the climate timer so I can check that out in the morning. I thought I did it last night, but it reverted back to 7AM cause I didn't save it. So I reset it to 4:50AM when I was sitting in traffic this morning. I also know it is bad I guess to charge it to 100% and not use it. Granted I am grateful that I did charge to 100% yesterday cause I needed it direly today, but is there any way without Carwings active to do this? If so I would much appreciate it. I know for a fact I won't need 100% tomorrow as I have my base temp passes and all now. So no getting turned around at the gate to sit in traffic for hours on end again. I think that is all off the top of my head. I finally figured out how to put it in and out of ECO mode, but I prefer D. I notice that in ECO though the GOM goes up, but I do not see how that is possible if I am still driving at the same speed on flat road just by going from D to ECO. Meh. I must say the Volt's meter does not have these types of fluctuations. I think GM should share that with Nissan, and Nissan should share their ECO data page on the radio with GM. As it is cool to watch my kwh consumption in real time broken down by driving, accessories, and climate. Not to mention the kwh/mi which for the Volt I calculate on a spread sheet.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

It is not bad to charge to 100% per say, it's just more ideal over the long run to not have it sit for long periods at a 100%, as in weeks or months. The majority of the folks in the EV project charge to 100% daily. With a loaner, don't bother fiddling to much, enjoy it and just leave the charging timer off (which it probably already is) so it will default to 100% whenever you plug it in, really, don't worry about it. Once you have your Leaf for a while, you can switch to 80% charging if you find you typically don't need the extra charge. The charging timer within the car makes it easy to time the charge closer to when you will leave in the morning, which limits the time it sits at 100% and is thought, over the long run to have some effect on improving battery longevity. Keep in mind, the car's battery management system is designed to prevent abuse and is far more sophisticated and trustworthy than say a cell phone or other consumer electronic.

That is the major difference for me. With the Volt it is a "game" to see how far I can go in EV mode... With the Leaf it is not a "game" because at the end of the battery meter there is turtle, and then nothing. I made it home with 3 of the bars left (1 white, and 2 red) with 26 miles left on the GOM. We are going to go to Wal-Mart which is not even 5 miles away. After that I will charge it. The grand total for today was about 62 miles so far. I am impressed. Especially since I didn't really try to hard to conserve. So I know if I applied the Volt's tactics I could get it higher.

Sooooo question time.. I figured out how to set the climate timer so I can check that out in the morning. I thought I did it last night, but it reverted back to 7AM cause I didn't save it. So I reset it to 4:50AM when I was sitting in traffic this morning. I also know it is bad I guess to charge it to 100% and not use it. Granted I am grateful that I did charge to 100% yesterday cause I needed it direly today, but is there any way without Carwings active to do this? If so I would much appreciate it. I know for a fact I won't need 100% tomorrow as I have my base temp passes and all now. So no getting turned around at the gate to sit in traffic for hours on end again. I think that is all off the top of my head. I finally figured out how to put it in and out of ECO mode, but I prefer D. I notice that in ECO though the GOM goes up, but I do not see how that is possible if I am still driving at the same speed on flat road just by going from D to ECO. Meh. I must say the Volt's meter does not have these types of fluctuations. I think GM should share that with Nissan, and Nissan should share their ECO data page on the radio with GM. As it is cool to watch my kwh consumption in real time broken down by driving, accessories, and climate. Not to mention the kwh/mi which for the Volt I calculate on a spread sheet.

 

[occ]

Thanks for the report Roadburner. I enjoyed reading it. It's good to hear the LEAF did well with your unplanned situations, albeit well within your range requirement. Also good to see it compatible with different chargers too.

We charge our LEAF to 100% everyday...since it has become our primary car. Most of the time we use more than 2-3 bars, but for the unexpected situations (few are far in between), we're always glad we charge to 100%. In SoCal burbs, things are not normally next to each other like the city, so 15 miles roundtrip is the minimum to do anything around here. So I guess as long as you use your car everyday, 100% charge is prob the way to go.

The ECO mode GOM meter goes up, I think because your acceleration tends to be slower - I know in D, it's so sensitive (or the thrill of beating the camero off the line) - that I tend to have too much fun with it -- fast acceleration means more energy to get to the same speed or distant, or you end up applying the brakes sooner and waste energy. I actually use ECO in stop/go traffic or traffic controlled area, and put in D to enter the freeway and cruise. That's my strategy for maximum range without thinking.

The LEAF it a wonderful car...we still have that EV smile every time we hop in, and every time we pass a gas station...esp at $4+/gal

 

[Roadburner440]

Not bad. Yeah having the Prius and Volt in my mind is kind of redundant. Which is why we are looking to go from the Prius to the Leaf. The Volt is very powerful. Not to mention I myself enjoy the EV as well. I haven't put gas in the Volt since November. Unfortunately now that it is in the shop we may wind up putting gas in the Prius again. Out of the almost 5000 miles on the Volt on 691 are on gas. 638 of those were driving from FL to VA. So under our very normal circumstances 80% would be more than enough. Today was way far out of the ordinary. In fact I have never seen anything like it before. Almost like a message from above saying: "You wanted to test a Leaf in real world conditions to the limits? Here you go!" Like I said though it did extremely well. Just the grabby brakes. They are definately very touchy at low speeds. Now it is just a matter making sure the dealer follows through like they have. I hate surprises when I get to the finance office. Shall see though. Got 3 months at least to prepare for that. Maybe longer with oil prices ramping up, and these cars increasing popularity.

 

[lpickup]

As others have said, no problem charging to 100% unless you're going to let it sit for a long period. If you're going to drive it shortly after charging, go for it. I don't think you need Carwings active to set the timer, but as you found out, you do have to hit the "Save Timer" button and not hit Back or it won't take. Even now I always confirm what the next timer to fire is. For the climate timer, just remember that you are setting a departure time, not a start time. The car will pre-heat and then shut off at the time you specify.

I think the GOM goes higher for ECO because it expects you to use the lower end of the pedal most of the time, expects higher regen use, and if you use climate control throttles that back as well. Since the upper end of the pedal travel in ECO is the same as D, you could easily just keep the pedal down and not see any benefit, but that's why it's called a Guess-O-Meter. The +/- on the climate control on or off display is just as ridiculous. It doesn't seem to even take into account the fact that the cabin is already warm and the heater is not pulling any power!

I know that a lot of people prefer D, but then they also say they wish that they could get the higher regen from D as they do in ECO. Maybe they're not aware, but you still get full power in ECO mode if you push the pedal down to the bottom of the travel. The ECO mode accelerator is just remapped so the first half or so of the travel is less sensitive and then the remainder goes quickly to full power. Since I spend most of my time in the lower half, once you get used to it I like the additional control it offers. If I need the extra power, it's there for me!

 

[Roadburner440]

Thanks for telling me the timer is for when I leave. I will bump it up to 5AM or so then before I go to bed tonight. The Leaf certaintly has different operating characteristics in the Volt. With the Chevy there is no such thing as ECO. Below D you have L which is just crazy powerful regen braking (do not go from D to L in a Volt in traffic, as you will get rear ended). I noticed when messing around with the Leaf going from D to ECO produces a similar result, but like with our Prius it requires more pedal travel to accelerate. With the Volt you have normal acceleration all the time regardless of the regen selection, but "Sport Mode" really kicks the power up a notch and makes the gas pedal super touchy. Whenever I am at lights next to a Si, or a Mustang I usually pre-emptively put it in Sport Mode just in case. I always think it is funny listening to them rev up really high, shifting, and I am silently pulling away before I just let off usually.

I do like this climate timer though. For me that a huge plus. With the Volt you must remote start the car with your keys or app. Which to me is kind of stupid, but I guess cause it has a gasoline engine they figure it has its merit. I notice with the Leaf it just turns on the climate controls, but you guys say you cannot control the temperature. Where with the Volt as long as I set the climate how I want it in the morning it will follow what I tell it. Is why I think Nissan and GM should swap engineering notes. As I think both cars could benefit from a little tech sharing. In my mind it would make them some of the best vehicles on the market. It is just ashame the bad wrap the car get. Although I did catch people multiple times checking the Leaf out in the parking lot at my work. Higher gas prices must have them thinking.

 

[Herm]

For me the GOM seems to be pretty accurate thus far. I have been using the 6 miles per bar rule. I know have 4 bars left, and the GOM says I have 35 miles or so.

are there any hills in Hampton, VA?

 

[Roadburner440]

The roads are rolling if you will.. with varying undulations but not "hills." The only "hill" I encounter is the decent in to the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel, and then the climb up out the other side. I do that journey twice a day. I did notice when going down in to the tunnel it went up by like 20 miles, and then when I popped out the other side it was back where it left off. So I just kept truckin. Is more on ramps/off ramps, and tunnels than varying terrain.

 

[Caracalover]

Like I said though it did extremely well. Just the grabby brakes. They are definately very touchy at low speeds.

Keep in mind with the regenerative braking in the Leaf, the actual brakes do not get used much. New brakes tend to grab more than those that have been worn in a bit. I have 13,000 miles on my Leaf, and the brakes are just now getting worn in. When you ride the brake in D, you actually initiate more regenerative braking, not the brakes. At low speeds the brakes actually get used, hence the grab you are feeling. It may go away in a year or so.

As for the ECO v D modes - think of them as differing levels of regeneration and control. Some people like control and will press harder on the pedal and use ECO, feathering the foot to keep Kinetic speed up, rather than removing the foot like in an ICE. All the power is still available in ECO, but to access it you have to put the pedal to the floor. Hard part for me is not getting too much regen when I still want to go fast. When this happens I have to use more energy to regain the speed I lost to regeneration, hence why I often use D. Accessories are reduced in power while in Eco, so energy is saved in this mode if the heater/ac is used.

Others like a light foot for accelerating and light deceleration when the foot is removed as it is in D. If you need to stretch the charge, use ECO to accelerate and then cruise in D and you may do better than staying in ECO. I always use ECO to slow down when I have the time, rather than touch the brakes. In mountain driving (3000 feet) I can descend by alternating between N, D, and Eco and never touch a pedal, keeping my speed around 45 MPH.

 

[OrientExpress]

Like I said though it did extremely well. Just the grabby brakes. They are definately very touchy at low speeds.

The grabby brake thing gets fixed with the current software update.

 

[Roadburner440]

Just so you guys know I got confirmation on what took out my Volt's ability to charge. Water got down in to the charge wire harness and broke it. Apparently it is an issue that has occured on a couple cars, and GM is already in the works on an engineering fix. However they are coming to look at my car. I am going to assume the reason it coincided with me using the AV charger is there is a lot of pot holes around here in VA, and that probably aggrivated the wear/breakage on the wiring. Either way the AV charger has been cleared, and my house has been cleared. Thanks for all the responses and help.

Also still waiting on the official delivery estimate for my Leaf, and sadly the demo Leaf goes back to the dealer tomorrow.... In the meantime GM has given us a rental Malibu. Which means for the first time in a long time our Prius is going to be going back in to regular daily driver duty till the Volt returns.

Also day 2 of Leaf demo test driving has gone excellent. I got pictures, but we are about to eat dinner and then run to the store with it. Will get in to more specifics later. My 28 miles average day drive only used 4 bars off the meter though. So the car is definately meeting and exceeding my expectations of it. Just the killer wait now.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

glad to hear it was nothing too crazy, probably an easy fix.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Just so you guys know I got confirmation on what took out my Volt's ability to charge. Water got down in to the charge wire harness and broke it. Apparently it is an issue that has occured on a couple cars, and GM is already in the works on an engineering fix. However they are coming to look at my car. I am going to assume the reason it coincided with me using the AV charger is there is a lot of pot holes around here in VA, and that probably aggrivated the wear/breakage on the wiring. Either way the AV charger has been cleared, and my house has been cleared. Thanks for all the responses and help.

Also still waiting on the official delivery estimate for my Leaf, and sadly the demo Leaf goes back to the dealer tomorrow.... In the meantime GM has given us a rental Malibu. Which means for the first time in a long time our Prius is going to be going back in to regular daily driver duty till the Volt returns.

Also day 2 of Leaf demo test driving has gone excellent. I got pictures, but we are about to eat dinner and then run to the store with it. Will get in to more specifics later. My 28 miles average day drive only used 4 bars off the meter though. So the car is definately meeting and exceeding my expectations of it. Just the killer wait now.

water damage? hmmm, interesting. during the storms we had here, i went thru a foot of standing water at 40 mph and did not experience any issues. you did see the Nissan Engineer test when they drove a Leaf thru 40" of standing water?

here is charger i saw on the pluginamerica survey. found two like this staring straight into WA Rain. one was dead, the other charged just fine.