High Speed Charging

[acentre]

Just leased a 2013 S with charge option. I noticed that there is not one CHAdeMO in my area, Rhinebeck NY. I have contacted Nissan and was told to look on Plugshare. I am surprised that Tesla can install superchargers and not Nissan. Do anyone know of any in the Albany NY area?

 

[keydiver]

Plugshare??? That's mainly for guys like me who don't mind giving a charge in an emergency to other EV owners. None of us will have a DC Quick Charger.
Have you read this thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11426" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would try Chargepoint first:
http://www.mychargepoint.net/find-stations.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But, you have to understand 2 things:
1) you live on the EAST Coast, like me, where EV's were only introduced a little over 1 year ago. I still only have 2 L2 charges anywhere near me, other than my dealer.
2) DCQC chargers are very expensive and more complex to install, so most places will opt for the simpler, cheaper L2. I don't expect to see anything more than L2 near me for years.
What is your commute, or why do you think you need DCQC? Going out-of-state often? Without the QC option, the 2013 Leaf already charges twice as fast on L2 as my 2012, so IMHO DCQC is really only for long range interstate use.

 

[LEAFfan]

Just to be clear, it's a 6.0kW charger and uses 6.6kW h from the wall so it isn't double nor twice as fast as 3.3 which uses 3.8kW h from the wall.

 

[cracovian]

Plugshare??? That's mainly for guys like me who don't mind giving a charge in an emergency to other EV owners. None of us will have a DC Quick Charger.

PlugShare might have started out this way years ago but it is the most comprehensive database of all available charging stations at this point. It covers "casual" 120 V plugs, home charging, dealer, public L2s, and the latest Blink (with up-to-date status and pricing info), ChargePoint, and all other networks. It lists the latest DC quick chargers pretty much the same day they become available, has very friendly crowd-sourcing features, so it is the best app for out there.

I have the iPhone version myself, so I can't totally vouch for Android whose version sucked (dealer locations were missing for example) last time I checked.

EDIT: Nissan donated a few L3s to the city of Atlanta almost two years ago and nothing has happened in Georgia since then. I keep reading about the initiatives (with big funding and everything) planning to install quite a few of these all over the place but not a single one is live in our state yet either. Therefore, I don't think it's Nissan; I think it has more to do with permits, liability (maybe) but the company should have had them installed at the dealerships first, if anything...

 

[NYLEAF]

The nearest ones to us here in New York are in Ontario and Quebec, unfortunately. Nissan has just (like, this past weekend) started installing some Quick Chargers at a few dealerships in California. None of them are actually open to the public yet, from what I've read -- they're waiting for inspections from the local authorities. Nissan has said that they're looking at installing upwards of 500 QCs in the next 18 months or so I think it was? They haven't said where yet, except for the ~40 QCs they've given to eVgo, a company based out of NJ that is currently operating a QC network in Texas, and is planning on installing the 40 QCs in the Washington DC area.

The only other groups installing QCs right now are Blink (they are essentially the same as the "EV Project", which received funding from the Department of Energy, I believe) and AeroVironment. Blink is installing QCs in CA, OR, WA, TN and AZ. AeroVironment is installing QCs in OR and WA. There was a company called 350Green that installed a bunch of QCs in the Chicago area, but they've since gone out of business (or been purchased by a competitor -- it's not quite clear what happened to them). I haven't been able to find out much about those stations, but my guess is that they've been abandoned and, at best, cannot be relied upon. That's pretty much it for QCs in the USA. Blink has expanded their Level 2 networks into Atlanta, Chicago and Philadelphia, so it's theoretically possible that they will eventually install QCs in those markets, but based on what I've read about their equipment, it might be better for everyone if they don't. (Their charging stations are usually broken, it seems.)

Our best hope here in the Northeast would be for Nissan to continue what they've started in CA and install QCs at their dealers. If the dealers in Newburgh and Kingston (along I-87, the NYS Thruway) would get QCs, I could get my Leaf up to Albany in almost the same time as my ICE!

 

[cracovian]

Crown Nissan south of Birmingham, Alabama, out of all places, has its own L3

 

[Spindoctor]

You shouldn't be that shocked. The first LEAF appeared in San Francisco in December 2010 to great promises of L3 chargers all over the city. 2 1/4 years later - there is still not a SINGLE L3 charger in all of SF.

EV manufacturers are killing off their own product by not creating a trail of chargers near highways. Musk was smart enough to see this and is monopolizing the idea (in more ways than one - i.e., creating a product specific charging system).

 

[cracovian]

The new standard SAE J1772 combo-coupler doesn't help matters either...

CHAdeMO is really just in Nissan's hands for now (Mitsubishi has a few at its own dealerships but car volumes are low and Fiat 500e is compliance) since no one else needs to implement it. They've dropped the ball in these last two years and they're well on the way of becoming a Betamax of chargers unless something changes and fast.

Musk is shrewd - he has his own standard but Teslas can also take advantage of existing L3s with an OEM adapter.

 

[eclecticflower]

Just leased a 2013 S with charge option. I noticed that there is not one CHAdeMO in my area, Rhinebeck NY. I have contacted Nissan and was told to look on Plugshare. I am surprised that Tesla can install superchargers and not Nissan. Do anyone know of any in the Albany NY area?

Don't feel left out. There's not a QC in the entire state of Missouri and only a limited number of L2s scattered around. I'd love to be able to QC at any region east, west, north and south of the metropolitan Kansas City area to extend my travel, but it's a pipe dream right now. I haven't completely given up hope, but getting those here is probably several years away. I'll have to wipe the cobwebs off my QC port if I ever get a chance to use it.

 

[garymelora]

I have contacted Nissan and was told to look on Plugshare.

It drives me crazy that Nissan would gamble a billion dollars + on EVs, and then allow lies and misinformation to stand. I don't know who you talked to at Nissan, but they knew full well that there were no QCs anywhere near you, and that there probably wouldn't be over the course of your lease. To feed you BS like "look on Plugshare" is inexcuseable to me. I wouldn't be surprised if your salesman told you that you just had to spend the extra money to get the QC port even though he knew, or should have known, that you will never use it. Sorry to rant. I love my leaf, and I really hope that Nissan can get it together.

 

[garygid]

It doesn't take many QC stations to enable a CAEV
(Chademo All-Electric Vehicle) to transition from
being a BNEV (Big-Neighborhood EV) to being
a RAEV (Roving All-Electric Vehicle).

With the right adapters, you do not need to wait
for L2 Stations or QC Stations, but you can explore
using the extensive electrical infrastructure that is
already almost everywhere around us.

Learn to enjoy your AEV "to the max".

 

[eclecticflower]

With the right adapters, you do not need to wait
for L2 Stations or QC Stations, but you can explore
using the extensive electrical infrastructure that is
already almost everywhere around us.

No QCs anywhere here, so could you provide a list of part number(s) for adapter(s) one would need to carry to charge "everywhere?" Thanks!

 

[garygid]

First, get an EVSE that can work with both 120v and 240v sources.

Possibly get your Nissan EVSE upgraded, see
http://www.evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then one buys or makes suitable adapters.
For the Nissan upgraded EVSE, which has an L6-20P (plug),
that would be an L6-20R (receptacle, usually in-line)
a foot or so of 3-conductor wire, and a plug to match
the socket that you will / might plug into.

See this thread on adapters:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5504&hilit=adapters" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and two other similar threads, also with "adapters" in terms thread title.

 

[ebill3]

Musk is shrewd - he has his own standard but Teslas can also take advantage of existing L3s with an OEM adapter.

If by L3 you mean CHAdeMO, not now. Would ne nice, but methinks such an adapter is going to be pricey.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have contacted Nissan and was told to look on Plugshare.

It drives me crazy that Nissan would gamble a billion dollars + on EVs, and then allow lies and misinformation to stand. I don't know who you talked to at Nissan, but they knew full well that there were no QCs anywhere near you, and that there probably wouldn't be over the course of your lease. To feed you BS like "look on Plugshare" is inexcuseable to me. I wouldn't be surprised if your salesman told you that you just had to spend the extra money to get the QC port even though he knew, or should have known, that you will never use it. Sorry to rant. I love my leaf, and I really hope that Nissan can get it together.

i think your reaction is a bit out of bounds here.

the person most likely talked to a CS rep who gave the standard answer to question involving a rapidly changing landscape. i think u will agree that user inputted data is by far the most up to date and if you had called me, I would have referred you to the same.

Besides Nissan, there are other QC providers and for a rep to simply say there is none because they "know" that Nissan does not have any in the area would be doing a disservice to the caller.

 

[KickinLeaf]

It really baffles me how much an L3 station costs. What about making it simple, here is a thought:

Create a battery bank using cheap deep-cycle batteries that can provide 20+kW of power and 400v DC.

The battery bank would get recharged by a 240v charger.

The upside, cheap electrical infrastructure (no need for 480v service)
Battery bank size would probably be smaller than existing L3 stations
Less cost, by a lot.
Less "stress" on the grid

Downside is that it's cycle time would be 2-3 hours depending on service to the charger, but this would be ok if the L3 wasn't used a lot.

I wish they had a DCQC at every thruway rest stop in NY. This isn't going to happen since the gas stations there have an agreement to monopolize the "fuel" sold at rest areas.


-Jim

 

[planet4ever]

It really baffles me how much an L3 station costs. What about making it simple, here is a thought: Create a battery bank using cheap deep-cycle batteries that can provide 20+kW of power and 400v DC.

First, we are not talking about L3, we are talking about CHAdeMO, also known as DCQC. "L3" is a term coined by the SAE and even their combo plug (aka Frankenplug) is not an L3 by their definition. They propose future AC L3s and DC L3s.

Second, you don't seem to understand what a DCQC must do. It does not provide a constant 400v input to the car. It provides a variable voltage at high amperage. The battery controller inside the car constantly tells the DCQC through the CHAdeMO interface what voltage it must provide at that point in time. It is by varying the voltage that the battery controller is able to "baby" the battery through its charging cycle.

Ray

 

[KickinLeaf]

It really baffles me how much an L3 station costs. What about making it simple, here is a thought: Create a battery bank using cheap deep-cycle batteries that can provide 20+kW of power and 400v DC.

First, we are not talking about L3, we are talking about CHAdeMO, also known as DCQC. "L3" is a term coined by the SAE and even their combo plug (aka Frankenplug) is not an L3 by their definition. They propose future AC L3s and DC L3s.

Second, you don't seem to understand what a DCQC must do. It does not provide a constant 400v input to the car. It provides a variable voltage at high amperage. The battery controller inside the car constantly tells the DCQC through the CHAdeMO interface what voltage it must provide at that point in time. It is by varying the voltage that the battery controller is able to "baby" the battery through its charging cycle.

Ray

Ok, so I didn't include a charge controller in my "list", but that is an assumed technicality. I think you are missing my point, to come up with a much cheaper solution for a DCQC network that doesn't cost $50k-$100k to install, thus making more of them available. The biggest hurdle right now is cost when talking wide scale deployment.

 

[garygid]

The LEAF's charging controller tells the Chademo charging station what
current to deliver, not what voltage to apply.

A battery driven Chademo station could be set to deliver "full" amperage,
but draw a maximum of 19 kW, to avoid the demand charge. Then, it
would be able to achieve reasonable duty cycles, if it has enough
battery capacity... until a large-capacity Chademo vehicle comes
along and drains it.

However, the cost of maintaining and replacing the batteries
becomes a major expense.

A home version, with enough batteries to be a home backup
when the grid is down, might be an attractive time-shift solution
(charge at night, and deliver quickly as needed for quick fillup).

 

[EVDRIVER]

It really baffles me how much an L3 station costs. What about making it simple, here is a thought: Create a battery bank using cheap deep-cycle batteries that can provide 20+kW of power and 400v DC.

First, we are not talking about L3, we are talking about CHAdeMO, also known as DCQC. "L3" is a term coined by the SAE and even their combo plug (aka Frankenplug) is not an L3 by their definition. They propose future AC L3s and DC L3s.

Second, you don't seem to understand what a DCQC must do. It does not provide a constant 400v input to the car. It provides a variable voltage at high amperage. The battery controller inside the car constantly tells the DCQC through the CHAdeMO interface what voltage it must provide at that point in time. It is by varying the voltage that the battery controller is able to "baby" the battery through its charging cycle.

Ray

Ok, so I didn't include a charge controller in my "list", but that is an assumed technicality. I think you are missing my point, to come up with a much cheaper solution for a DCQC network that doesn't cost $50k-$100k to install, thus making more of them available. The biggest hurdle right now is cost when talking wide scale deployment.

They can be installed for far less than what you mentioned and the model you propose would not cost less and it would be ineffective since it would have little utility.