How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity?

[EdmondLeaf]

I've charged to 100% to see if it helps balance the cells and get my 80% SOC back to show 10 bars. But it didn't help. My 80% SOC has been consistently showing 9 bars every time now for the last few months.

How long from start of 9 bars charge to 80% to top capacity bar loss?

 

[phxsmiley]

I've charged to 100% to see if it helps balance the cells and get my 80% SOC back to show 10 bars. But it didn't help. My 80% SOC has been consistently showing 9 bars every time now for the last few months.

This was also happening to me before I lost my 12th capacity bar and I think it is due to the way that the Leaf does the SOC meter.

The 80% mark where it stops charging is always a measure of where the ECU believes the 80% of SOC mark to be, based on it's capacity measurement.

However, the SOC gauge still measures based on 12 bars, and doesn't lose the 12th bar until after the actual capacity drops below 15% (or wherever the marker is now with the latest software).

So, I think the 10th-9th bar transition at 80% charging is an early indicator of pending capacity loss.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I've charged to 100% to see if it helps balance the cells and get my 80% SOC back to show 10 bars. But it didn't help. My 80% SOC has been consistently showing 9 bars every time now for the last few months.

This was also happening to me before I lost my 12th capacity bar and I think it is due to the way that the Leaf does the SOC meter.

The 80% mark where it stops charging is always a measure of where the ECU believes the 80% of SOC mark to be, based on it's capacity measurement.

However, the SOC gauge still measures based on 12 bars, and doesn't lose the 12th bar until after the actual capacity drops below 15% (or wherever the marker is now with the latest software).

So, I think the 10th-9th bar transition at 80% charging is an early indicator of pending capacity loss.

Thank you, this was my understanding, it is an early indication of top bar loss. Right now is your 100% charge 11 or 12 bars?

 

[smkettner]

I've charged to 100% to see if it helps balance the cells and get my 80% SOC back to show 10 bars. But it didn't help. My 80% SOC has been consistently showing 9 bars every time now for the last few months.

Mine also is pretty much 9 bars now at 80% charge even after 100% charge this weekend.

No GID readings. Will post when the 12th bar is gone.

 

[TNleaf]

I've charged to 100% to see if it helps balance the cells and get my 80% SOC back to show 10 bars. But it didn't help. My 80% SOC has been consistently showing 9 bars every time now for the last few months.

Mine also is pretty much 9 bars now at 80% charge even after 100% charge this weekend.

No GID readings. Will post when the 12th bar is gone.

For those charging to 100% and testing again, are you allowing it time to cell balance? I've seen my EVSE cut back on ~4 hours after the initial "completed" event occurs, it then stays on for a little longer to balance before no longer supplying power.

Also, it can take multiple "100%" cycles to fully balance the cells. So I wouldn't expect an immediate result from charging to 100%.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

For those charging to 100% and testing again, are you allowing it time to cell balance? I've seen my EVSE cut back on ~4 hours after the initial "completed" event occurs, it then stays on for a little longer to balance before no longer supplying power.

Also, it can take multiple "100%" cycles to fully balance the cells. So I wouldn't expect an immediate result from charging to 100%.

Wonder if you had/have any experience with 9 bars and 80%?

 

[TNleaf]

For those charging to 100% and testing again, are you allowing it time to cell balance? I've seen my EVSE cut back on ~4 hours after the initial "completed" event occurs, it then stays on for a little longer to balance before no longer supplying power.

Also, it can take multiple "100%" cycles to fully balance the cells. So I wouldn't expect an immediate result from charging to 100%.

Wonder if you had/have any experience with 9 bars and 80%?

I had been mostly charging to 80% since Feb. In May, I had completed a 80% charge, displayed 10 bars, moved the car to a different parking spot (ie very little energy usage/miles driven) and the car sat for maybe 2 hours. Upon return, it had only 9 bars. I've witnessed similar behavior following that occurance, and my "10th" bar would go away sooner (tracking m/kWh and miles driven) than it had been previously.

I decided to 100% charge the next several times and allow it time to balance (over night), and since then, I have not seen another "9 bar at 80%" issue. I'm since back to only 80% charging, unless I need the range on a particular day. I will report on how long before I see the "out of balance" event happen again.


Is this what you were asking?

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Thank you, your case completely different than 9 bars and 80%. Your car never finished 80% and 9 bars in my believe.

 

[RegGuheert]

So, I think the 10th-9th bar transition at 80% charging is an early indicator of pending capacity loss.

Based on what I have read on this forum I think it is, too, assuming that the cells are properly balanced beforehand by multiple 100% charges and/or a 100% charge followed by Phil's trick of turning on climate control (A/C, not heat!) for a while to try to force some more charge into the battery.

For the record, to date our LEAF has always shown 10 bars following an 80% charge. Typically we can drive about three miles before the 10th bar disappears.

 

[TNleaf]

Thank you, your case completely different than 9 bars and 80%. Your car never finished 80% and 9 bars in my believe.

Oh really?

In May, I had completed a 80% charge, displayed 10 bars...the car sat for maybe 2 hours. Upon return, it had only 9 bars.

80% charge completed.
Displayed 10 bars.
2 hours passed.
Displayed 9 bars.

This is a perfect example of the cells "settling" and the BCM making an adjustment to the SoC calculation after the car has been off for a while.

Unless you want to explain what a "80% 9 bar" event is to you.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

TNleaf I am sorry I should be more clear, 9 bars and 80% many times, not 9 bars after driving even for short distance

I had been mostly charging to 80% since Feb. In May, I had completed a 80% charge, displayed 10 bars, moved the car to a different parking spot (ie very little energy usage/miles driven) and the car sat for maybe 2 hours. Upon return, it had only 9 bars. I've witnessed similar behavior following that occurance, and my "10th" bar would go away sooner (tracking m/kWh and miles driven) than it had been previously.

 

[Volusiano]

I've charged to 100% to see if it helps balance the cells and get my 80% SOC back to show 10 bars. But it didn't help. My 80% SOC has been consistently showing 9 bars every time now for the last few months.

How long from start of 9 bars charge to 80% to top capacity bar loss?

Occasional 9 bar charge to 80% started Q4'2011. Consistent 9 bar charge to 80% started in April'12. One bar capacity loss started in May'12.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Occasional 9 bar charge to 80% started Q4'2011. Consistent 9 bar charge to 80% started in April'12. One bar capacity loss started in May'12.

Fair to say once you start seeing 9 bars all the time you may expect that bar gone within few weeks. It looks like djchrispaul top bar will go any day now. So sad his car just 4KM.

 

[shrink]

[Occasional 9 bar charge to 80% started Q4'2011. Consistent 9 bar charge to 80% started in April'12. One bar capacity loss started in May'12.

Interesting. I actually started the 9 bars/80% charge thread on 5/6/2012:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8765" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I lost my 1st capacity bar on 6/21/2012:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=800#p207594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[djchrispaul]

I have to say that I am disappointed with my battery degradation after 4500 miles, Palm Springs is very hot yes but I thought the cars preferred hot weather rather than cold weather. Apparently I will lose a battery bar any day now as I am only getting 9 of 12 on 80%.
So like all the other owners, what now? We have a 100 mile range car that is a 65 (3.5kw mile) mile range car that we obviously could not sell, who would want it?!
I have had it since September 2011 and although I love it, I feel I am stuck with what will turn out to be a low range golf cart in a few years if the degradation continues at this rate.
I followed the instructions, never above 80% never lower than 2 bars EVER in fact it's never been below 3 bars.
I know I am not the only one but I think I win with the lowest miles! 4500

Off topic but Engand lost to Italy on Sunday knocked us out of the Euro 2012 which doesn't help my current mood!
I assume Nissan will say oh that's normal. I should stop being an early adopter but I scored a lot of the music for the movie Revenge of the Electric Car and fell in love with the idea, oh well!

 

[Stoaty]

I have to say that I am disappointed with my battery degradation after 4500 miles, Palm Springs is very hot yes but I thought the cars preferred hot weather rather than cold weather. Apparently I will lose a battery bar any day now as I am only getting 9 of 12 on 80%.

I have had it since September 2011 and although I love it, I feel I am stuck with what will turn out to be a low range golf cart in a few years if the degradation continues at this rate.
I followed the instructions, never above 80% never lower than 2 bars EVER in fact it's never been below 3 bars.
I know I am not the only one but I think I win with the lowest miles! 4500

When you lose that capacity bar, you should complain long and loud to Nissan. You have taken the best possible care of your Leaf (aside from living in Palm Springs, which you didn't know would be a problem and don't have much control over). If they don't fix it after complaining to several dealers, consider requesting arbitration as suggested earlier in this thread.

 

[DesertDenizen]

I have to say that I am disappointed with my battery degradation after 4500 miles, Palm Springs is very hot yes but I thought the cars preferred hot weather rather than cold weather. Apparently I will lose a battery bar any day now as I am only getting 9 of 12 on 80%.
So like all the other owners, what now? We have a 100 mile range car that is a 65 (3.5kw mile) mile range car that we obviously could not sell, who would want it?!
I have had it since September 2011 and although I love it, I feel I am stuck with what will turn out to be a low range golf cart in a few years if the degradation continues at this rate.
I followed the instructions, never above 80% never lower than 2 bars EVER in fact it's never been below 3 bars.
I know I am not the only one but I think I win with the lowest miles! 4500

+1 Well said. I am at 5400 miles and in the same boat. Or should I say sinking boat.

 

[djchrispaul]

I have to say that I am disappointed with my battery degradation after 4500 miles, Palm Springs is very hot yes but I thought the cars preferred hot weather rather than cold weather. Apparently I will lose a battery bar any day now as I am only getting 9 of 12 on 80%.

I have had it since September 2011 and although I love it, I feel I am stuck with what will turn out to be a low range golf cart in a few years if the degradation continues at this rate.
I followed the instructions, never above 80% never lower than 2 bars EVER in fact it's never been below 3 bars.
I know I am not the only one but I think I win with the lowest miles! 4500

When you lose that capacity bar, you should complain long and loud to Nissan. You have taken the best possible care of your Leaf (aside from living in Palm Springs, which you didn't know would be a problem and don't have much control over). If they don't fix it after complaining to several dealers, consider requesting arbitration as suggested earlier in this thread.

I will do that, it's my and all the other owners only option, we have supported Nissan with our hard earns dollars by being first adopters and probably talking other people into buying the car, I know I have! I am seeing so many posts on this all over the forum, I wonder if Nissan will come up with some very small print that we all missed!

 

[shrink]

but I scored a lot of the music for the movie Revenge of the Electric Car!

Did I read that right???

Wow. Impressive! Nice work and nice to see you posting here.

 

[djchrispaul]

but I scored a lot of the music for the movie Revenge of the Electric Car!

Did I read that right???

Wow. Impressive! Nice work and nice to see you posting here.

Yes thank you, had a nice full screen credit at the end when they filmed in Palm Springs too! Enjoyed doing it and it also meant I saw the movie a thousand times in bits! I never heard Carlos mention the dodgy battery life in very hot weather!