Kia Niro BEV

[cwerdna]

I did get into and check out the '23 Niro EV at Electrify Expo in Alameda about a month ago. Exterior and interior are quite different than my now previous gen '22.

As for gauges and tick marks or whatever, at first, I thought whatever as on the '22, it's a digital speedo and it just has a number in the middle and two on the outside (for mph, 0 and 130) along w/some unmarked blocks around the ring.

But for the '23, the whole gauge cluster is an LCD that lets it display info in an arbitrary format. I found a bunch of reviews but only one (from quick digging) that was in mph and showed all the modes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMKPYnulwKg. 0:51 shows a complete digital one. You can also get the digital speedometer in the center or have it display something else there (from other videos).

'22 Niro EV only has a much smaller LCD that can display info in an arbitrary format. The gauges on the left and right side are mostly just LCDs w/fixed segments. For '22, the trim levels were EX and EX Premium. There was no Wind nor Wave.

The gauge, tick marks and all that are very unlikely to be a deciding factor for me in ANY car. Having a small frunk is nice as the '22 doesn't have it but there's extra room under the hood. There are apparently a bunch of aftermarket frunk kits for pre-'23 Niro EV and Kona EV.

I will agree that it's disappointing that Kia didn't go with an 800 volt system to allow for faster DC FCing. HyunKia has left that to newer vehicles like the Ioniq 5 and EV6.

Back to pre-'23 Niro EV frunk kits, I found https://www.ebay.com/itm/265412491118, for example. It points people to https://youtu.be/UenJ7YVHRb0 at the 59 minute mark, but they put it in a Kona EV. I also found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XinLa1ID_54 which I've only watched bits of. This one has no cover. If you skip to ~5:06, you can how to install it. His Niro EV has hood struts. Mine doesn't. It just has a single rod. Seems like the company he got his frunk from has some other versions at https://www.frunk.at/produkt-kategorie/kia-e-niro/.

 

[GRA]

^^^ Thanks for the video on the display. I didn't have time to read the whole manual to explore all the options, as I wasn't even sure I'd be able to find one to rent; as it was I had to delay my trip for a day until I did find one. The speedo display wouldn't be a deciding factor for me either except in the unlikely case of AOTBE, but it's nice to know people do have some options - I just cycled through the 4? basic displays in the center info area that the car was set up with: from memory, trip meter, nav, tire pressure and settings?, which is presumably the one used to customize the display, and which I didn't explore. As for my referring to the 2022 trim I drove as 'Wind' rather than 'EX', brain fart, and I've corrected it.

BTW, although we refer to them as "800 volt" packs as a class to distinguish them from the "400" volt pack class (whatever their actual pack voltage is), from memory the nominal resting voltage of the standard and extended range packs for the EV6/Ioniq 5 and presumably the GV60 also, are 523 and 697 volts. Not that I care what the precise pack voltages are, what matters to me is that both are credited by the manufacturer with an 18 minute charge from 10-80% when using a high voltage DCFC, and I've personally confirmed while charging both the Ioniq 5 and EV6 at 350kW EA DCFCs that the extended range packs will do 20-80% in 15 minutes in warm weather (didn't have the opportunity to try them in cold), which is the typical max. SoC range I use for trips when I need to make short stops. However, I've also found that the extended range packs on those cars only take an additional 5 minutes to charge from 80-90% in the same conditions, so using 20-90% is quite doable without extending your charging stop excessively beyond the time it takes to buy and eat fast food, unlike most BEVs.

As to newer vehicles getting the higher-voltage packs, as the 2023 Niro is the next generation and came out after the Ioniq 5 and EV6, it is the newer vehicle. I and others assume that the company wanted to more greatly differentiate the Niro and EV6 price and performance-wise, and in fact they briefly stopped offering the EV6 'Light' (the version with the standard-range pack) in the U.S. presumably for that reason. IMO the two cars were simply too close together in price (currently $3,050 difference in MSRP) to make most people choose the Niro rather than the EV6, unless they absolutely don't want the EV6's bigger size or simply can't afford the extra cost. I much prefer the Niro's smaller size, but if I had to pick one I'd opt for the EV6 in a heartbeat, even with all its other drawbacks [see my EV6 review here]: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=625032#p625032
as it's far more suitable for road trips.

[Edit:] Found several pics online showing the 2023 Niro EV with a cargo floor level with the base of the folded seats, so I'm hopeful the one I drove was just a fleet version. It lacked any mounting points that would let you install the floor higher up, plus the floor was much too flimsy to support any weight without something substantial under it. The one in the pic looks a lot sturdier with much better carpeting, and hopefully you can get this version in the U.S. See the photo in the linked article: https://electrek.co/2022/10/09/2023-kia-niro-ev-first-drive-intelligent-ev-does-it-fit-kias-lineup/

That would eliminate my biggest complaint about the 2023, and I could probably live with the rest (grumble, grumble).

 

[GRA]

Just found this, which shows the 2023 Niro EV's two-position load floor in detail:

How much cargo space?

Testing the capacity of all three versions: the hybrid, plug-in hybrid and Niro EV

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/24/kia-niro-luggage-test/

Note that the Hertz version I drove had a completely flat low load floor with slightly-raised longitudinal ribs to keep cargo from shifting around, i.e. it lacked the ramp at the front that the two-position floor has in the low position, giving the Hertz version slightly more cargo space. I found a pic of the Hertz version but can't link to it as it's behind a paywall. However, if you google "2023 Niro EV cargo area" and select 'Images', it's the leftmost pic in the second row, from a 'Globe and Mail' article.

 

[cwerdna]

BTW, although we refer to them as "800 volt" packs as a class to distinguish them from the "400" volt pack class (whatever their actual pack voltage is), from memory the nominal resting voltage of the standard and extended range packs for the EV6/Ioniq 5 and presumably the GV60 also, are 523 and 697 volts. Not that I care what the precise pack voltages are, what matters to me is that both are credited by the manufacturer with an 18 minute charge from 10-80% when using a high voltage DCFC, and I've personally confirmed while charging both the Ioniq 5 and EV6 at 350kW EA DCFCs that the extended range packs will do 20-80% in 15 minutes in warm weather (didn't have the opportunity to try them in cold), which is the typical max. SoC range I use for trips when I need to make short stops. However, I've also found that the extended range packs on those cars only take an additional 5 minutes to charge from 80-90% in the same conditions, so using 20-90% is quite doable without extending your charging stop excessively beyond the time it takes to buy and eat fast food, unlike most BEVs.

As to newer vehicles getting the higher-voltage packs, as the 2023 Niro is the next generation and came out after the Ioniq 5 and EV6, it is the newer vehicle. I and others assume that the company wanted to more greatly differentiate the Niro and EV6 price and performance-wise, and in fact they briefly stopped offering the EV6 'Light' (the version with the standard-range pack) in the U.S. presumably for that reason. IMO the two cars were simply too close together in price (currently $3,050 difference in MSRP) to make most people choose the Niro rather than the EV6, unless they absolutely don't want the EV6's bigger size or simply can't afford the extra cost. I much prefer the Niro's smaller size, but if I had to pick one I'd opt for the EV6 in a heartbeat, even with all its other drawbacks [see my EV6 review here]: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=625032#p625032
as it's far more suitable for road trips.

TIL the voltages of the packs of EV6 and Ioniq 5. Those cars use E-GMP platform for "800 volt" charging.

Apparently, this refresh of Niro (e.g. '23 Niro EV) didn't go to that platform. At least, that's what I'd read before they shipped. https://thedriven.io/2022/06/03/kia-to-debut-bigger-and-better-e-niro-with-fresh-new-look-in-late-june/ from mid-2022 says "New e-Niro larger than before

While the new generation of Kia electric cars are built on the shared E-GMP platform, the 2022 e-Niro is still based on the third generation of the “K” platform designed for use in both electric and combustion engines.

This will likely mean a lower price point than the EV6, but the new e-Niro makes up for it this time around with a longer and wider body and wheelbase."

Their 2022 I think is really the '23 here since my '22 doesn't look like that at all. https://electrek.co/2022/10/09/2023-kia-niro-ev-first-drive-intelligent-ev-does-it-fit-kias-lineup/ also mentions K3 platform instead of E-GMP. This seems to be that what the press has been attributing to slow DC FC speeds vs. EV6 and Ioniq 5.

 

[GRA]

BTW, although we refer to them as "800 volt" packs as a class to distinguish them from the "400" volt pack class (whatever their actual pack voltage is), from memory the nominal resting voltage of the standard and extended range packs for the EV6/Ioniq 5 and presumably the GV60 also, are 523 and 697 volts. Not that I care what the precise pack voltages are, what matters to me is that both are credited by the manufacturer with an 18 minute charge from 10-80% when using a high voltage DCFC, and I've personally confirmed while charging both the Ioniq 5 and EV6 at 350kW EA DCFCs that the extended range packs will do 20-80% in 15 minutes in warm weather (didn't have the opportunity to try them in cold), which is the typical max. SoC range I use for trips when I need to make short stops. However, I've also found that the extended range packs on those cars only take an additional 5 minutes to charge from 80-90% in the same conditions, so using 20-90% is quite doable without extending your charging stop excessively beyond the time it takes to buy and eat fast food, unlike most BEVs.

As to newer vehicles getting the higher-voltage packs, as the 2023 Niro is the next generation and came out after the Ioniq 5 and EV6, it is the newer vehicle. I and others assume that the company wanted to more greatly differentiate the Niro and EV6 price and performance-wise, and in fact they briefly stopped offering the EV6 'Light' (the version with the standard-range pack) in the U.S. presumably for that reason. IMO the two cars were simply too close together in price (currently $3,050 difference in MSRP) to make most people choose the Niro rather than the EV6, unless they absolutely don't want the EV6's bigger size or simply can't afford the extra cost. I much prefer the Niro's smaller size, but if I had to pick one I'd opt for the EV6 in a heartbeat, even with all its other drawbacks [see my EV6 review here]: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=625032#p625032
as it's far more suitable for road trips.

TIL the voltages of the packs of EV6 and Ioniq 5. Those cars use E-GMP platform for "800 volt" charging.

Apparently, this refresh of Niro (e.g. '23 Niro EV) didn't go to that platform. At least, that's what I'd read before they shipped. https://thedriven.io/2022/06/03/kia-to-debut-bigger-and-better-e-niro-with-fresh-new-look-in-late-june/ from mid-2022 says "New e-Niro larger than before

While the new generation of Kia electric cars are built on the shared E-GMP platform, the 2022 e-Niro is still based on the third generation of the “K” platform designed for use in both electric and combustion engines.

This will likely mean a lower price point than the EV6, but the new e-Niro makes up for it this time around with a longer and wider body and wheelbase."

Their 2022 I think is really the '23 here since my '22 doesn't look like that at all. https://electrek.co/2022/10/09/2023-kia-niro-ev-first-drive-intelligent-ev-does-it-fit-kias-lineup/ also mentions K3 platform instead of E-GMP. This seems to be that what the press has been attributing to slow DC FC speeds vs. EV6 and Ioniq 5.

Yes, they stayed with the old platform, but that doesn't explain why they apparently didn't use newer cells. It may be a space issue, but that begs the question as to why they didn't opt for a new generation 'K' platform that would allow them to upgrade. I can see sticking with the existing platform for an MLU, but that's not what this is. A new generation is when you make the big changes because you'll be stuck with them for 6-8 years, and the 1st gen's charge rate was already non-competitive, only besting the Bolt/EUV and the LEAF. The minor increase from 77 to 85kW max. is hardly enough to bring it up to the competition even now, never mind for the full sales-life of the generation, where a max. rate of about 1.5C for '400V' packs is pretty much the standard nowadays, and some '400V' cars i.e. ID.4 are around 2C; the '800V' packs can go even higher. Packs this size should have max. rates ca. 100kW or higher, and more importantly should be able to charge from 20-80% (or wider) in a max. of 30 minutes. As an example, here's Bjorn's test of the Ariya (both size packs) against the C40 and ID5 (skip ahead to 6:13 to see the final charging curves):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2-_NrXTtOg

 

[BuckMkII]

Sleeping.
I always test cars by sleeping in them, as that's something I often do at trailheads especially in winter, and the 2023 is a major step backwards from the 1st gen. for one simple reason. It lacks a fixed or two-position cargo floor that's level with the base of the folded rear seats. [Note, see Edit below]. The low floor position, while providing more cargo height/space because it's low, is 5 2/3rd inches lower than the base of the folded rear seat backs, i.e. there's a big step up. I took both my bed pillows and laid them cross-wise one ahead of the other in an attempt to provide a flat floor for my sleeping pad, but unfortunately they weren't thick/stiff enough to work once my leg weight was on them, and I had to abandon the attempt to sleep in the car after an hour or so because it was simply impossible. Obviously, it would be possible to find pillows or make some other arrangement to provide a floor level with the base of the rear seats for sleeping

As you say, it would be very easy to arrange a level floor: cut a piece of 3/8" plywood the length of the floor and aboout 3/4 of the width, screw a couple of pieces of 2x4 on transversely and drop a hunk of 2" memory foam on top of it if you like comfort.

I say transversely and 3/4 width because then while laying on it, this can be a feature, not a bug. You can reach under either side to access that storage space for whatever small items float your boat in the middle of the night. Eyeglasses, book, flashlight, wallet, phone or tablet, snacks, water bottle, pocket knife, fleshlight, weed pipe, handgun, kleenex, Sudafed and ibuprofen, flask of scotch, bird call, harmonica; I don't judge. What useful stuff am I forgetting? edit: Car keys. Duh!

Also keeps that stuff out of sight if you are away from the car.

 

[BuckMkII]

With the proliferation of PEVs and the resulting dispersal of MNL members to their own model-specific forums,

Which forum do you like for Kia?

One of my favorite hobbies is kayaking, so I prefer a vehicle that has a low roof to make getting the boats on and off easier. (I'm currently nursing along a 20 year old Taurus wagon as my primary boat hauler.) That makes SUVs unattractive. Even the original RAV4 was taller than I like, and the current model is ridiculous. I'm above average height and it's still too tall.

The Kia Niro is a little smaller overall than would be ideal, but it's one of the few EV/PHEV models that is really attractive to me.

 

[cwerdna]

Which forum do you like for Kia?

Not sure if you'll get a reply. I noticed awhile back, GRA's not been around.

https://mynissanleaf.com/members/gra.3813/#recent-content shows his last post was Aug 30, 2023. Not sure if something happened to him.