L1 Charging Doesnt Reach 10 Bars at 80%. How come?

[thankyouOB]

Recently, I have experienced a failure to fully charge 10 bars on L1, when charging at work.
I set the timer to 80% and plug in the manufacturer's L1.
Around 4 pm, i get the email saying that charging has stopped.

About an hour later I go to the car to depart from the parking garage. Several times in recent weeks, I get to the car and it has charged 9 bars and the dash indicator tells me that i am 10 minutes or 20 minutes from 80%.

When I charge L2 at home, the 80% charge always gets 10 bars and the dash reads 0 time to full charge.

is this precursor to losing a bar. I dont see think this would actually work out that way.

I have almost 28k miles and 2.5 years on the road.

any thoughts?

 

[DaveEV]

You are about to lose your 12th bar.

80% Charge only 9 bars?

You have a GID meter or ELM327?

 

[Weatherman]

I get 9-bar, 80% charges all the time, now. I can't remember the last time I got a 10-bar, 80% charge.

According to the LEAF battery app, the charging stops around 79.5%. The battery temp is pretty toasty after the charge is complete. Last night it was around 95F. My LEAF's battery capacity is down to about 85% of the original, so I don't expect to lose the 11th bar until sometime in October.

It sure seems like premature charging halts are temperature related. Last time I tried a 100% charge, the charging stopped at 91.7% with the battery temp in the lower 90s.

 

[thankyouOB]

drees,
but why does it do that for L1 but NOT L2?

I get that it could be telling me with the bars that at 9 bars I am 80% full, but the dash is saying the charging stopped early.

(have neither tool)

 

[thankyouOB]

I get 9-bar, 80% charges all the time, now. I can't remember the last time I got a 10-bar, 80% charge.

According to the LEAF battery app, the charging stops around 79.5%. The battery temp is pretty toasty after the charge is complete. Last night it was around 95F. My LEAF's battery capacity is down to about 85% of the original, so I don't expect to lose the 11th bar until sometime in October.

It sure seems like premature charging halts are temperature related. Last time I tried a 100% charge, the charging stopped at 91.7% with the battery temp in the lower 90s.

that comports.
The garage at work leaves the LEAF at 6 bars on temp, up from 5 when i arrive.
At home, the LEAF is always five bars on temp-regardless of charging status or time.

 

[DaveEV]

but why does it do that for L1 but NOT L2?

Good question, but at 28k miles and 2.5 years in Los Angeles, it's about that time...

BTW - what is the 80-100% estimated charge time (for example, through carwings). My L1 estimated charge time has been steadily dropping - currently get 3:00 / 1:30 - L1 / L2 and I have been getting 9 bar / 80% charges for nearly solid month now. I am not far away from losing a bar at ~56.0 Ah and ~197 GIDs on 80% charge.

 

[09Bamb00]

yes, that is what happened to me before I lost a bar. Either L1 or L2 ended up going to 9 bars before stating was at 80%

I also noticed that when charging with L1, the charging time is longer than what the car and fon app state. (e.g: says 3 hours actually takes closer to 4 hours).

The battery temperature was at six bars for five months before I lost the bar.

 

[thankyouOB]

but why does it do that for L1 but NOT L2?

Good question, but at 28k miles and 2.5 years in Los Angeles, it's about that time...

BTW - what is the 80-100% estimated charge time (for example, through carwings). My L1 estimated charge time has been steadily dropping - currently get 3:00 / 1:30 - L1 / L2 and I have been getting 9 bar / 80% charges for nearly solid month now. I am not far away from losing a bar at ~56.0 Ah and ~197 GIDs on 80% charge.

what are you asking in the underlined area? how long does it take to top up from 80% to 100%?

also, my location in LA is pretty much optimum--as in cool, not valley hot. The car almost never gets more than 5 miles from the coast, and both of its primary parking spots -- my house and the workplace -- are less than a half mile from the ocean.
I dont doubt I will lose a bar, but I should be very late in that game. Also, never L3'd.

 

[TimLee]

It is temperature related, and also capacity loss related.
I started getting 9 bars with 80% charge using L2 in late June, early July last year after 13 months of vehicle use, and around 9,500 miles on the vehicle.
Summer was very hot here last year, hit 104 for several days straight in early July.
Went back to getting 10 bar charges after temperatures went down in late September.
Started getting 9 bar charges again in June / July this summer.
Been getting 9 bar charges about 80% of the time this summer. But the summer has been much cooler than last year.
I also don't have any meters yet.
I'm now at 26 months, 15,000 miles.
Based on range loss, it is possible that I could lose the first capacity bar any day, or it might not be until next May or June. Someone in Nashville lost first capacity bar at 11,000 miles.
Most others in TN have managed over 25,000 to 30,000 miles and 2+ years of use prior to first capacity bar loss.
But I've done a lot of DCQC. I'm doubtful I make it past 20,000 miles before losing first capacity bar.

 

[thankyouOB]

interesting, tim.
i wonder if adding more charge time to the workday charge to reach 10 bars is NOT a good idea.
the charging is going on at 6 temp bars.

we lack information from nissan or anywhere else on whether that would speed battery degradation.

can someone remind me: does that battery hold more charge when it is charging at cooler temperatures, than when the battery is hotter?

ditto on range: does that battery produce more range when it is charged while cooler?

 

[garygid]

This 9-or-10 Bar situation has very little to do with battery Capacity.

Filling the battery to near 80% real SOC is filling up to very near 10.5 bars.

Fill a bit less, to 10.49 bars for example, and the 10th Bar will not
be shown when the LEAF starts up.
Fill a bit more, to 10.51 bars, and the 10th bar will show, even though
battery is filled to almost (very close to) the same "fullness" (SOC).

So, what causes the car to fill slightly less?
The higher temperature of the battery pack is most likely responsible,
causing the BMS to be a tiny bit more conservative when the
battery is hotter.

However, 9-or-10 Bar "thing" can happen at any Capacity, I believe.

 

[dgpcolorado]

^ I think you mean 9.5 bars, as opposed to 10.5, etc.

 

[thankyouOB]

thanks, Gary.
the 9-bar thing ONLY happens in the 1-bar hotter garage at work.

but riddle me this: why has it started to happen now, or am i just noticing it and it is summer?

(the garage is a 5-bar temperature during the rest of the year.)

 

[DaveEV]

what are you asking in the underlined area? how long does it take to top up from 80% to 100%?

Charge to 80%. Then either use Carwings to check the status of the car and see how long it reports to charge to 100% (make sure it's not plugged in) or disable your timers temporarily and see what the car says it will take to charge to 100%.

FWIW, I checked my car's estimated time to 80% this morning after a 9-bar / 80% charge - still reported -- / -- - ELM327 reported 79.7% SOC or something like that.

also, my location in LA is pretty much optimum--as in cool, not valley hot. The car almost never gets more than 5 miles from the coast, and both of its primary parking spots -- my house and the workplace -- are less than a half mile from the ocean.
I dont doubt I will lose a bar, but I should be very late in that game. Also, never L3'd.

For sure your car spending most of it's life < 1 mile from the ocean will help a lot. But every time a car has started charging to 9 bars at 80% consistently, it has always meant that losing the 12th capacity bar is not too far away. Of course, most of our experience so far has been with cars in warmer climates - the time from 9-bar charges to a lost 12th capacity bar will take longer in cooler climates.

However, 9-or-10 Bar "thing" can happen at any Capacity, I believe.

But it rarely does until one is close to the threshold of losing a capacity bar (or the car thinks it's close due to high ambient temperatures).