LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[Marktm]

Again, my opinion is that at this point in technology, an EV should only be a SECOND car, which is used like crazy daily. The ICE car is the backup. Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

The recently purchased a 2012 Leaf as a third car. We have a Suburban for hauling (lots), RDX - Wife loves Acura, and the Leaf for my Solar/battery/off-grid/dual purpose "experiments". We live in "Suburbia USA" and now my Wife and I drive the Leaf 90% of the time around "Suburbia". I'm putting off replacing the Suburban as I don't put much mileage on it anymore. The fun, ease of driving, parking, gas savings all have been unexpected benefits. The battery is BAD (9 bars), but I've make 100 mile trips easily with a little planning - mainly confirming that the needed QC station is working! I'm hoping to get a new battery for my off-grid storage (experiments - not there yet) soon.

Never going to regret this purchase!

 

[powersurge]

Good for you Marktm..

I am in the same situation. I have an odyssey minivan for hauling, Home depot, and taking out the family with a lot of gear.

I have a Miata for convertibling, and Ford escape hybrid that my wife drives daily... The leaf is the perfect "beater" car...

 

[Stanton]

Again, my opinion is that at this point in technology, an EV should only be a SECOND car, which is used like crazy daily. The ICE car is the backup. Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

This is exactly what I tell people when I deliver EV presentations. The Leaf is a commuter car: use it as intended.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

I've been living in my delusion for over a year and it fits my needs perfectly. I think what you meant to say was for those who have not understood the limits of the car before purchase and found that it didn't work and then complain about it on this forum.

I understood that the battery could get to the point that 40 miles might be it's range. I work 13miles from home, so it works for me. we've gone on longer trips and used charging stations along the freeway exits (Nissan dealerships) to get us there and back so we've not even had to rent a ICE yet.

 

[knightmb]

Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

That's about the same as saying the gas vehicle you drive will never, every have any problems or maintenance that makes it unavailable.

The Leaf is a vehicle just like the many millions out there, except it uses electricity instead of gas. I use to have 4 gas vehicles before I bought my Leaf, but now I only have 1 and sold the rest because the Leaf made the others not worth the time to maintain. I am from the old school of drive it until the wheels fall off, never buy new, etc. But when you are the kind of person who can fix anything on a car but never have to do anything to the Leaf except make sure the tire pressure is good and keep the windshield washer fluid filled, you will truly appreciate how wonder the Leaf really is for saving time and money. No more oil changes, no more oil filter changes, no more air filter changes, no more getting so dirty after car maintenance that you have to take another shower. I don't miss any of it. My Leaf has filled the role that 2 cars and 1 truck was doing before at a fraction of the cost. I kept the 1 gas car for long road trips but have yet to use it for such because I've actually just in a good location that I can drive out of state, across multiple states if I am not in a hurry.

Different strokes for different folks, I know not every where has a good charging infrastructure for electric cars, but no need to dis the rest of us who can take advantage of what the EV offers us.

 

[jkline]

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/20/nissan-200-mile-leaf-coming/

 

[evtifosi]

While I like the sportier look and the increased range of the upcoming LEAF 2, it wouldn't be a fit for us. We purchased a 2015 LEAF as a replacement car for our short trips and as an around town car. Having a 200 mile BEV wouldn't gain us enough extra usage to make it worthwhile. We still have a sport wagon as our second car for road trips and when we need 2 cars.

Our LEAF replaced a 12 year old ICE car that we sold used. We weren't comfortable with that ICE car anymore, and with the poor gas mileage, higher maintenance as it aged, and the "lower" cost of a 2015 LEAF we thought it was a good decision. Our out of pocket cost for the LEAF was $17,300 - less $8000 we sold the ICE car for. That nets us a cost of $9300 for a new car. We are guessing that we are saving between $850-$1000 per year in gas, maintenance etc...We have also added solar to our home, so when charged at home it costs us almost nothing.

In retrospect I am thinking that we might have been better off finding a good used 2013 SV or SL. Back in September of 2015, the only good condition used LEAF's we could find were all selling for over $11,000 - $13,000 - jumping up in price a few thousand for a new 2015 was the choice we made.

Back to the LEAF 2 - it looks like a good car for those who need longer range. I will be curious to see what it ends up costing, what charging options it has (faster Level 2 charging, CCS or CHADEMO options).

I am also very interested to see what it ends up looking like. I am 50/50 on the current LEAF styling I think it borders on being FUGLY...

 

[evnow]

Also, if they ever made a 60 kwh battery, the price would have to go up $5-8K.. I'll believe all that hype when I see them selling them.

If Tesla and GM can make a 200 mile EV for some $35k, not sure why Nissan can't. If Nissan really can't, they won't be able to compete in the market.

Personally, I just want to see them MARKET the CURRENT Leaf.... Like a Blitz of TV commercials and in magazines... I also think that a 40kwh battery would be a sweet spot of an EV in the future. No product can be everything to everybody. Those who think that we NEED a 200 mile EV are foolish to think that EV needs to have the same performance qualities as a gas car.

There is definitely a market for smaller battery EVs. I expect Leaf to have multiple battery (may be 30 & 60 or 40 & 60).

Again, my opinion is that at this point in technology, an EV should only be a SECOND car, which is used like crazy daily. The ICE car is the backup. Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

What is your definition of a "second" car ? To me the car I use most is my "first" car.

 

[kubel]

Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

I lived in a delusion for about 3 years, apparently. It was only towards the end of my last year on my lease that I got the gas car going again since I knew I needed a stop-gap car. Before that, it became my moms car and then the transmission went out, so I was ICEless.

 

[geefish]

Nissan's annual shareholders meeting is in Japan in the next few hours. Last year there was a 3 minute or so presentation on the Leaf, Autominous driving and that Blue Leaf with the 500 odd km range. Might be interesting to see what is revealed this year, if anything. It streams live and can be found with a simple google search. I'm not sure if I am allowed to put the link up.

 

[knightmb]

Nissan's annual shareholders meeting is in Japan in the next few hours. Last year there was a 3 minute or so presentation on the Leaf, Autominous driving and that Blue Leaf with the 500 odd km range. Might be interesting to see what is revealed this year, if anything. It streams live and can be found with a simple google search. I'm not sure if I am allowed to put the link up.

What is the google search?

 

[geefish]

Nissan's annual shareholders meeting is in Japan in the next few hours. Last year there was a 3 minute or so presentation on the Leaf, Autominous driving and that Blue Leaf with the 500 odd km range. Might be interesting to see what is revealed this year, if anything. It streams live and can be found with a simple google search. I'm not sure if I am allowed to put the link up.

What is the google search?

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NISSANCHANNEL/LIVE/newsroom2.html

 

[dgpcolorado]

I seriously doubt that the next leaf will look liked the pictures of that "concept" car. That car is too low and the wheels have no rebounding clearance. also, the body is WAY too complex.

Also, if they ever made a 60 kwh battery, the price would have to go up $5-8K.. I'll believe all that hype when I see them selling them.

Battery prices are coming down with scaled-up production, so it isn't at all unlikely that LEAF 2 would be about the same price as the current model, or even a bit lower-priced.

Has anyone seen that crazy Nissan Japanese commercial of the future Leafs? yeah.... in 50 years..

Personally, I just want to see them MARKET the CURRENT Leaf.... Like a Blitz of TV commercials and in magazines... I also think that a 40kwh battery would be a sweet spot of an EV in the future. No product can be everything to everybody. Those who think that we NEED a 200 mile EV are foolish to think that EV needs to have the same performance qualities as a gas car.

Again, my opinion is that at this point in technology, an EV should only be a SECOND car, which is used like crazy daily. The ICE car is the backup. Any people who think that they should have a Leaf as their only car are deluding themselves and have unrealistic expectations.

Depends on the EV. While I agree that one would have to work quite hard to make the current short-range LEAF work as an only car, it is quite common for Teslas to be the only cars in a household. Your statements that "an EV should only be a SECOND car" and that people "are foolish to think that EV needs to have the same performance qualities as a gas car" makes no sense to me. That ship sailed several years ago: a thousand mile trip in a Tesla is exceedingly easy and the performance wipes the road with the vast majority of ICE cars.

 

[Levenkay]

The pictures suggest a denser battery, but I still don't see any evidence of cooling fluid ducts in those metal battery cell packs, so Nissan still failing to learn from experience.

 

[Marktm]

"Re-purposing" (maybe "re-invigorating) every 2011-2013 (and possibly newer?) Leaf that is failing in hot climates - getting them all back on the road with new batteries provided by NIssan (for whatever purpose suits your needs best) is an admirable goal (IM0). My 2012 Leaf has been a great "ambassador" for EV's - especially with Nissan's battery warrantee.

 

[NavyCuda]

The pictures suggest a denser battery, but I still don't see any evidence of cooling fluid ducts in those metal battery cell packs, so Nissan still failing to learn from experience.

Active thermal management is a band aid and gives up valuable space to coolant instead of cells. To suggest Nissan has not learned anything is incorrect.

 

[WetEV]

The pictures suggest a denser battery, but I still don't see any evidence of cooling fluid ducts in those metal battery cell packs, so Nissan still failing to learn from experience.

Thermal management of batteries is a complex issue. If you think you understand it, you probably don't.

 

[OakLeaf]

It would be great if Nissan has learned enough to make robust and reliable cells that don't suffer undue thermal degradation or performance loss. Some of the experience with the "lizard" and newer batteries as well as the info that has come out of their R&D group does indicate performance improvements. Overall, there appears to be some reason to be optimistic on this point.

However, given the performance benefits shown in battery systems with active thermal management, it would take some substantial evidence from tests done on these next generation batteries to convince me that they have sufficiently solved the problem. If they haven't, an active system should be used. It might not be as elegant or ideal as a passive system, but managing batteries this way has been proven to work.

In any case, at the end of the day, the best news is that there are lots of options available as well as sustained development activity happening in the EV world. Ultimately, the market will sort out which overall designs and systems approach are the best value.

 

[NavyCuda]

The point is that Nissan is taking the more difficult road and if they solve the chemistry issues they'll have a significant leg up over the competition.

Once active thermal management is in place it's too easy to just say, "we have thermal management already so lets only focus on energy density." Thermal management adds complexity to a car that is almost completely solid state.

I can understand why some manufacturers would choose to take the easy route, but Nissan is taking the right path. The greater the risk the greater the reward.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The point is that Nissan is taking the more difficult road and if they solve the chemistry issues they'll have a significant leg up over the competition.

Once active thermal management is in place it's too easy to just say, "we have thermal management already so lets only focus on energy density." Thermal management adds complexity to a car that is almost completely solid state.

I can understand why some manufacturers would choose to take the easy route, but Nissan is taking the right path. The greater the risk the greater the reward.

I can't agree with that. By doing it wrong (no thermal management with current chemistry) for years, while hoping to eventually get it right, they are not so much "getting a leg up over the competition" as "losing both current and future EV buyers."