LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[DesertSprings]

I wouldn't expect any significant changes for the 2016 Leaf. It will be the 2017 Leaf (which should launch in summer 2016) that will be the all new design.

 

[NX2001]

There has been rumbling from a couple of dealerships that June-July of this year is a good time to look into replacing a Leaf. There is no confirmation that the magic "150" or "200" mile Leaf 2.0 will be out, but my Leaf specialist believes it would be worth the wait.

But then again, you can say that about any car. Wait a while longer and it will have more features, better pricing, etc. If you need a car and are looking into the Leaf, get what works for you now.

 

[fotajoye]

Maybe lease an EV until you can find an one that will meet your requirements; I saw an ad for a Fiat 500e for $8120 plus tax&license for 36 months. Seems everybody's waiting are on battery tech to improve.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There has been rumbling from a couple of dealerships that June-July of this year is a good time to look into replacing a Leaf.

Translation: they are getting nervous about people skipping the next model year and waiting for the '17 Leaf. (Which really should be called the Leaf 3, IMO, as the 2013" cars are different from the 2011-12 cars.)

 

[Moof]

It is certainly possible that we will see a range bump on the current chassis before a full refresh. Without throwing out a bone of some sort Leaf sales are likely to tank as we rapidly approach a full refreh and with all the 200 mile press releases from Tesla, Hyundai, GM, etc. It is not unreasonable to think their battery efforts would be somewhat decoupled from their chassis schedule.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

It is certainly possible that we will see a range bump on the current chassis before a full refresh. Without throwing out a bone of some sort Leaf sales are likely to tank as we rapidly approach a full refreh and with all the 200 mile press releases from Tesla, Hyundai, GM, etc. It is not unreasonable to think their battery efforts would be somewhat decoupled from their chassis schedule.

Along those lines, Nissan could do a huge favor to current Leaf sales by promising to continue building batteries in the current form factor with the latest technology for some time (say, 10 years is probably reasonable).

I fully expect the next Leaf to have a different form factor for the battery. They almost have to if they expect to double range. I don't think that battery technology has progressed that far that quickly.

At the same time, they are required by law to provide parts for existing cars for something like 8 years. If they have to build the current Leaf's battery pack anyway, why wouldn't they build it with the same battery cells that are being built for the next Leaf? It seems like it could be more expensive to build the old tech than to do some engineering tweaks to make an old form-factor battery out of the newer cells. And if the battery is ready for MY16, why not make the change now? A lot of people would be very happy with a 100-125 mile Leaf in its current form. That wouldn't really take the wind out of the sails for the next Leaf with 150-200 miles of range.

Of course, this is all wishful thinking until we see what Nissan gives us for the 2016 Leaf.

 

[Moof]

Of course, this is all wishful thinking until we see what Nissan gives us for the 2016 Leaf.

Indeed wishful, below is a gossipy snippet for a while back that indicated there was a decent chance we might see some sort of bump before the full refresh.
http://insideevs.com/nissan-exec-reliable-125-miles-of-range-coming-to-leaf-by-2016/

Of course, it is all vaporware until one shows up at the dealers lot.

On a more grim thought, if Nissan does add a proper thermal management system it would be likely that the cells change completely. At that point the days would be numbered for getting replacement packs. The software registration of a new pack makes it unlikely that any aftermarket companies will be able to come up with a solution without Nissan's blessing either.

 

[dhanson865]

There has been rumbling from a couple of dealerships that June-July of this year is a good time to look into replacing a Leaf.

Translation: they are getting nervous about people skipping the next model year and waiting for the '17 Leaf. (Which really should be called the Leaf 3, IMO, as the 2013" cars are different from the 2011-12 cars.)

I'd call the 2011-2012 Leaf 1.0 and the 2013-2015 Leaf 1.1 yeah they are different but not enough to be a full version number.

Or if you want to get really detailed call it like this:

2011 = Leaf 1.0
2011 with cold weather package = Leaf 1.1
2012 = Leaf 1.2
2013 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if not
2014 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if not
2015 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if not

Just not that much change in the cars, minor trim choices, cold weather package, heat pump heat/AC, the battery change hasn't proven to be any different yet so I don't count it for anything yet.

Maybe if the lizard pack proves significant we could increment to 1.5 for those cars with the lizard pack, cold weather features, and heat pump.

They'll have to bump the battery pack above 35kWh before I'd call it Leaf 2.0

 

[DesertSprings]

2015 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if not

I'd argue 1.3 or 1.4. Since they all come with the "lizard" battery. I figure that's worth an increment.

 

[dhanson865]

2015 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if not

I'd argue 1.3 or 1.4. Since they all come with the "lizard" battery. I figure that's worth an increment.

Too early to tell. Is the "lizard" battery worth 1% SOC after 3 bars lost in Arizona? Is it worth 5% more SOC for the same time in Arizona? Is it worth 10% more SOC after the same time in Arizona? Is it worth 20% more? 30% more? 40% more? 50%?

Until an Arizona type user gets to the 3 bars lost level and can tell us the months and miles it took to get there we don't know if that battery is worth nothing more, slightly more, noticeably more, significantly more, mindbogglingly more.

Until we know I'm not giving it any weight in the versioning scheme as it doesn't increase range to any significant extent as far as we know.

Unfortunately for Nissan by the time the 2015 leaf has 3 years under it's belt all the next gen EVs will be out in front and the results of the lizard battery will only matter for the buyers of cheap used Leafs.

 

[asimba2]

My wife and I love our 2013 LEAF and can't wait to see the next generation. Degradation on ours has not been noticeable unlike our friend's 2012 model, but we hope the next gen has even better battery chemistry (or TMS, if required), better looks and brakes that aren't grabby. More range comes without saying, as I think most future EVs will need it to compete with future vaporware offerings. I'm tired of leasing and hope I can purchase the next one.

 

[DesertSprings]

From a product change perspective, I'd say the lizard battery is a significant difference. It is a new battery with new performance characteristics. Just because we haven't figure out what those difference are (and whether they are good or bad), doesn't mean the change shouldn't be documented.

 

[DanCar]

... and brakes that aren't grabby. ...

Ask your dealer to perform the update referenced in bulletin NTB14-027
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+IvorThomas/posts/5PD5ZZQxSkJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[asimba2]

... and brakes that aren't grabby. ...

Ask your dealer to perform the update referenced in bulletin NTB14-027
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+IvorThomas/posts/5PD5ZZQxSkJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NTB14-027 is the occupant sensor issue that resulted in the airbag recall, which I had done. If there is a solution for the grabby brakes that doesn't take away all the regen like the update for the 2011-2012 models, I am interested.

 

[DanCar]

NTB14-027 is the occupant sensor issue that resulted in the airbag recall, which I had done. If there is a solution for the grabby brakes that doesn't take away all the regen like the update for the 2011-2012 models, I am interested.

According to the link and the photo of the receipt NTB14-027 has instructions to reprogram the brakes.

 

[dhanson865]

From a product change perspective, I'd say the lizard battery is a significant difference. It is a new battery with new performance characteristics. Just because we haven't figure out what those difference are (and whether they are good or bad), doesn't mean the change shouldn't be documented.

yeah, you have a point there but we can decide how much of a variance it is.

2011 = Leaf 1.0
2011 with cold weather package = Leaf 1.1
2012 = Leaf 1.2
2013 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if no heat pump
2014 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if no heat pump
2015 = Leaf 1.3.5 if it has the heat pump, 1.2.5 if no heat pump

how about 1.3.5 for a 2015 if it has the lizard battery and heat pump and 1.2.5 if it has a lizard battery and no heat pump? Add .5 to the end of any earlier year if the battery is replaced with a lizard battery.

I just don't think plopping the 2015 battery pack in a 2011 car with no cold weather package gets you to something significantly better than a Leaf with the cold weather package.

If we see really good reports on degradation of the lizard pack we can tune that .5 upwards as far as .9 and if we hear bad things about lizard pack degradation we can tune that .5 downwards as far as .1.

 

[tkdbrusco]

From a product change perspective, I'd say the lizard battery is a significant difference. It is a new battery with new performance characteristics. Just because we haven't figure out what those difference are (and whether they are good or bad), doesn't mean the change shouldn't be documented.

yeah, you have a point there but we can decide how much of a variance it is.

2011 = Leaf 1.0
2011 with cold weather package = Leaf 1.1
2012 = Leaf 1.2
2013 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if no heat pump
2014 = Leaf 1.3 if it has the heat pump, 1.2 if no heat pump
2015 = Leaf 1.3.5 if it has the heat pump, 1.2.5 if no heat pump

how about 1.3.5 for a 2015 if it has the lizard battery and heat pump and 1.2.5 if it has a lizard battery and no heat pump? Add .5 to the end of any earlier year if the battery is replaced with a lizard battery.

I just don't think plopping the 2015 battery pack in a 2011 car with no cold weather package gets you to something significantly better than a Leaf with the cold weather package.

If we see really good reports on degradation of the lizard pack we can tune that .5 upwards as far as .9 and if we hear bad things about lizard pack degradation we can tune that .5 downwards as far as .1.

My lizard pack sucks! Down to 276 GIDS after 7000mi. Nothing impressive to me.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

My lizard pack sucks! Down to 276 GIDS after 7000mi. Nothing impressive to me.

Well that's disappointing for sure! And you're in San Jose? So you are hardly seeing hot temperatures.

 

[DanCar]

My lizard pack sucks! Down to 276 GIDS after 7000mi. Nothing impressive to me.

Down from what? Is it do to cold whether? What range are you getting?

 

[tkdbrusco]

My lizard pack sucks! Down to 276 GIDS after 7000mi. Nothing impressive to me.

Down from what? Is it do to cold whether? What range are you getting?

Initial 100% GIDS was 292 until about 2,000 miles. Now I'm getting 275-278 with about 7,000 miles. I'm in CA, not very cold here.