LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think that GM will start dumping Bolts at good prices, both because they have a bit of a glut of them, and to trip up Nissan. It will be an interesting Fall and Winter, that's for sure...

they already have in very selective parts of the country. Right now, I know 4 people interested in the Bolt in 3 far flung areas of the country and no one is getting anything better than $1K off.

Personally I just assume kick back and see who comes knocking at my door with the best offer. Now VW needs to get a decent entry in (and market it in more than 5 states this time!)

 

[DanCar]

2018 Nissan Leaf: first glimpse at specs and prices

...Notice that the 2018 Nissan Leaf is bigger and heavier than the outgoing 2017 version. However, Nissan managed to make it more efficient by improving the aerodynamics and the powertrain.

The specs of the electric motor (110 kW) and battery (40 kWh) offered without a price increase...

Yes, everything pointed to 40 kWh as I wrote many times. Will be cheaper than Bolt by $7k and Model 3 by $5k (and available earlier for most). ...

Comparison to model 3 doesn't seem valid. M3 is not available to most people and certainly not for $35K. Maybe by middle of next year after federal tax credit runs out it will be available to a few.

 

[geefish]

Japanese teaser 30 sec advert now being shown.

https://paultan.org/2017/08/08/video-2018-nissan-leaf-teased-in-new-japanese-ad/

also here on a UK based website:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/92857/new-2018-nissan-leaf-teased-in-japanese-tv-advert

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

They are trying to cut production costs, and offering the heat pump (and the seat & wheel heaters) for about what it costs them to add it makes sense, as not everyone buying a Leaf needs it. Still, it seems wrong to not have it standard on the SV, and the resale value will be harmed for those sold without it.

There was some efficiency hit in the cooling cycle between heat pump and AC only. So for the regions that have a strong preference for AC cooling, it's better to have an AC only option for all trim levels.

Winter package seems to be included on the SL, so you'd have to go SV or S to opt for AC only.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Still no green Leaf.

 

[evnow]

Comparison to model 3 doesn't seem valid. M3 is not available to most people and certainly not for $35K. Maybe by middle of next year after federal tax credit runs out it will be available to a few.

Standard battery production starts in November, a month after Model S/X owners can start taking delivery. According to delivery estimates I can get a base $35k Model 3 in Q1 - same time frame as Gen 2 Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Still no green Leaf.

notice the S trim has black, white silver and a color that says "blue" but is so dark, it looks black?

SV/SL does have something that is sorta turquoise with components of green....sorta of

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Any indication of whether there is thermal management?

 

[TheJeebas]

2018 Nissan Leaf: first glimpse at specs and prices

...Notice that the 2018 Nissan Leaf is bigger and heavier than the outgoing 2017 version. However, Nissan managed to make it more efficient by improving the aerodynamics and the powertrain.

The specs of the electric motor (110 kW) and battery (40 kWh) offered without a price increase...

http://pushevs.com/2017/08/07/2018-nissan-leaf-first-glimpse-specs-prices/

https://www.autobytel.com/nissan/leaf/2018/specifications/

https://www.autobytel.com/nissan/leaf/2018/configurator/

I'm a little bit disappointed that it seams to be ~110 Lbs heavier, and have no more interior space than the Gen 1, if the autobytel specs are to be believed.

Not looking too good (so far) for the significant efficiency gains I was hoping for.

Shoot if those numbers are real, it's a disappointment in terms of pricing.

(tesla battery stuff is estimated obviously)

Tesla Model 3 Long-Range - $44,000 | 70 kWh (est total) | 310 miles EPA Range | $142 per mile | 4.4285 mpkWh (est total)
Tesla Model 3 Standard - $35,000 | 50 kWh (est total) | 220 miles EPA Range | $159 per mile | 4.4 mpkWh (est total)
2017 Chevrolet Bolt - $36,680 | 60 kWh (total) | 238 miles EPA Range | $154 per mile | 3.96 mpkWh (total)
2017 Hyundai Ioniq - $29,500 | 28 kWh (total) | 125 miles EPA Range | $236 per mile | 4.46 mpkWh (total)
2017 Nissan Leaf - $30,680 | 30 kWh (total) | 107 miles EPA Range | $287 per mile | 3.56 mpkWh (total)

2018 Nissan Leaf - $29,990 | 40 kWh (total) | 150 miles EPA Range (est) | $200 per mile | 3.75 mpkWh (total)

I know they could go on about pro pilot or whatever else they are putting in there to compete with Tesla, but meh. The price is an improvement, and I bet dealers have a real hard time moving new 2017s anytime soon without a significant price drop (they are still going for $30K upwards around Pittsburgh). But when you do the math, why not spend the extra $7K and get 88 more miles of range?

Also, how are heated seats / steering wheel not standard in EVs at this point? Also quick charging not being standard? Car manufacturers need to make money but geez.

if they wanted this to hold onto its title as the best selling EV, they needed to price it lower IMHO

I mean that price is an improvement for sure, but not a game changer

 

[jhm614]

Still no green Leaf.

SV/SL does have something that is sorta turquoise with components of green....sorta of

It looks like Nissan is calling it Jade Frost - which does seem to indicate some type of green...

 

[TheJeebas]

So I just priced out an SV with the weather package (unless you live in the south, you need the heated seats / wheel in order to use the main heater less in the winter) and tech package (because why not) and then went to chevy's site and priced out a bolt lt with comparable packages. Note: I am guessing that QC port is standard on SV and SL trims?

2018 Leaf SV MSRP - $35,175 | 150 miles |$234.50 per mile
2017 Bolt LT MSRP - $39,295 | 238 miles | $165.10 per mile

So really, why not spend the $4120 extra for 88 more miles?

I have a 2015 S without the QC port, with 20K miles on it, that runs like a champ right now. If a new 2018 were priced right i would make the jump though. These prices aren't that appealing though, to me or likely to the general public I would guess... I'm not a automotive exec, but I expected a different strategy than essentially "more of the same" from NIssan.

The base MSRP being only $6630 less than a Bolt isn't that great. But if it were say $10,000 less (or $177 per mile, assuming 150 miles), now we're talking..

 

[desiv]

...why not spend the extra $7K and get 88 more miles of range?

I suppose the flip side to that question would be..
If I don't need the extra range, why spend an extra $7k?
To some people, $7k is a LOT of money.. ;-)

Unfortunately for me, I need the extra range, so that limits my options.. ;-)

desiv

 

[WetEV]

Any indication of whether there is thermal management?

I hope not, but I can understand why you would disagree.

 

[TheJeebas]

...why not spend the extra $7K and get 88 more miles of range?

I suppose the flip side to that question would be..
If I don't need the extra range, why spend an extra $7k?
To some people, $7k is a LOT of money.. ;-)

Unfortunately for me, I need the extra range, so that limits my options.. ;-)

desiv

Well if you don't need the extra range, then just buy a used 2014-2016 for around $7-11K. The difference between 84 and 150 isn't all that much for the average US commute (15 miles one way). Sure it's the difference between charging every two days or every four, but for trips it really doesn't make a difference.

Really any EV with a range under 250 is really just a commuter car, so one would think the higher concern would be energy efficiency, but if these projections are correct, the Leaf still falls behind the competition.

And I agree $7K is a lot of money... I think I will just wait 3+ years til the Bolts / 2018 Leafs come off leases and sell for $15K.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Leftie,

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Any indication of whether there is thermal management?

nope. There is not a lot of details here and guessing "if" this info is reliable, Nissan is or should be holding something back for the reveal.

So I think we need to dump this thread and start a new one speculating on what that "something" is?

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

S colors



SV and SL

Edit: skip this first duplicate photo, not sure how I did that

View attachment 1
Plus 2 tone white/black

So, teal, not a real green

 

[edatoakrun]

So really, why not spend the $4120 extra for (the Bolt's) 88 more miles?..

When total cost of ownership is stated correctly, including government incentives and discounts from list, for cost per mile for a BEV driven ~12,000 miles per year for five years, I think the question for most drivers will be:

Why pay 25% to 50% more per mile than you will for a LEAF, for every mile you drive, by buying or leasing a smaller, less comfortable, less efficient, and less well-equipped Bolt, the only advantage for which is ~75 miles more freeway range, that you only use a few times each year?

 

[TheJeebas]

On the other hand (and someone else had mentioned this recently) I will say that, if the SL has a 60 kWh pack and a range close to the Bolt it would be competitive.... for those willing to spend $35+ on an EV.

SL with packages - $37,985
Bolt LT with packages - $39,295

By my calculations, the SL / larger battery pack would need to get 230 miles to be the same price per mile as the Bolt.

 

[TheJeebas]

So really, why not spend the $4120 extra for (the Bolt's) 88 more miles?..

When total cost of ownership is stated correctly, including government incentives and discounts from list, for cost per mile for a BEV driven ~12,000 miles per year for five years, I think the question for most drivers will be:

Why pay 25% to 50% more per mile than you will for a LEAF, for every mile you drive, by buying or leasing a smaller, less comfortable, less efficient, and less well-equipped Bolt, the only advantage for which is ~75 miles more freeway range, that you only use a few times each year?

How will government incentives differ between the two manufacturers?

I'm not sure the comparison between dealer discounts can be made at this point, given the Bolt's limited time on the market. But if you have information to the contrary, I would be interested to know.

I am not understanding the less efficient argument, at 238 miles on 60 kWh, that's 3.96 mpkWh for the Bolt. Current Leafs are 107 miles on 30 kWh or 3.56 mpkWh

I would be interested to know how the cost of ownership numbers differ between these two...