Leaf 5 Year Total Cost of Ownership Less Than Prius?

[JPWhite]

*Finding new oil is not the problem.
*Finding new cheap oil is not likely, but is not main problem.
*Global warming (climate change) and air pollution will remain a political (not scientific) debate.
*The main problem is the exponential global oil demand. (i.e. increasing demand is outpacing new finds)
*The "key disclaimer" missing from many claims that we have enough oil for: 20 years, 50 years,
100 years or "pick number of years" is: "At The Current Consumption Rate"

Best explained by: Dr. Albert A. Bartlett's presentation on "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy"
(part 1 of 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Worth your time to watch!

The future availability of oil is not a primary concern to me. My major beef is that we are sending large amounts of money out of the country to nations that harbor extremists that mean to do us major harm. I hate to see money go to finance hate crimes against ourselves and also the money necessary to stabilize the area politically through military presence/actions. As time marches on the amount of money required to purchase an increasingly limited supply only makes matters worse IMHO.

I'd prefer to see the same monies go towards EV's and Solar systems thereby reducing (significantly) the dependance upon nations that don't have our best interests at heart.

If one conservatively estimates the cost of IRAQ war at 2 trillion dollars (some say 4 some say 1). The government could have instead purchased 27 Million EV's outright at a cost of $36,000 each and just given them away with cracker jack boxes. Or subsidized at 50% 54 Million EV's. The Afghanistan war has cost about 1/2 that of the Iraq war so add 50% to those numbers or use the money to buy solar systems to power the EV's.

Figure how much we consume on oil imports for transportation only every year and one soon sees that we could purchase 6 million EV's outright every year if we stopped using oil for transportation. If one cuts that in half because not all transportation is private motor vehicles, it is still a sizable number.

It can't happen overnight, but shouldn't we be putting the money in that direction?

What oil is left could then be utilized for manufacturing products (rather than transportation) for a good many years. We can't afford to run out, more important things are at risk than transportation.

 

[Herm]

We also don't know what the price of electric will be in the future either.

That one we are pretty sure about, it will get cheaper. Unless carbon caps are introduced but we will never do that..

 

[Herm]

Which car will have a higher resale value in 10 years, a 2011 Altima with 120 k miles that requires $5k a year operating costs, or a 2011 LEAF with 120 k miles, that will likely cost less than half that much to fuel and maintain?

I will take that used Leaf, after you replace the battery pack, and I want to see the receipt BTW. You can keep the used pack for resale..

 

[LEAFfan]

100 mile range will NOT be enough for 95% of the population. It's those many extra days where you need more range where you can't be inconvenienced and have to run a bunch of errands, worried about if you can make the next 10 miles with your children in the car, and can't go for that weekend getaway because it's too far. The masses will not pay almost $40 grand, somewhat less with some incentives, for a car with a realistic 75 mile range. We're talking about a $40,000 car that gets a realistic 75-80 miles to a charge. Telling people how much they'll save in year five won't even be a consideration for the general populace. A Prius would make far more sense for most people.

I guess you have forgotten about the QCs? All that talk about range anxiety, worrying, etc. is just FUD. You won't even need a 75 mile range as you will be able to recharge in about 10-30 mins. depending on how much you need.
A Prius uses gasoline which pollutes our environment, and sends money to other countries, so which makes more sense, driving emissions free with clean, renewable energy or driving a polluter? It isn't always about the $ savings. It's pretty obvious to me that you have never driven a LEAF or you would realize that there is NO comparison to any ICE car.

 

[LEAFfan]

I will take that used Leaf, after you replace the battery pack, and I want to see the receipt BTW. You can keep the used pack for resale..

Nissan said that only a few modules at a time would have to be replaced after 5-10 years, not the whole pack, which will make replacement costs much less.

 

[edatoakrun]

edatoakrun wrote:
Which car will have a higher resale value in 10 years, a 2011 Altima with 120 k miles that requires $5k a year operating costs, or a 2011 LEAF with 120 k miles, that will likely cost less than half that much to fuel and maintain?


Herm wrote:
I will take that used Leaf, after you replace the battery pack, and I want to see the receipt BTW. You can keep the used pack for resale..

And in ten years I’ll make the same deal for your Altima, after you replace the:

Engine,

Transmission,

Exhaust system and catalytic converter,

and don’t, forget receipts for all the other required regular maintenance, the recent fluid changes, smog inspection etc....

And you can keep all those obsolete ICEV parts you just replaced-fair?

On second thought- you can keep that cherry 10 year old antique. With gas in 2021 at $6 a gallon, as compared with my 8 cent/kWh for off-peak electricity, the Altima is still a money pit, even if it is good for another 120,000 miles.

Battery capacity (unlike ICEV mechanical condition) should be a fairly easy factor to determine in a used EV sale. I may have a receipt, if the battery pack has been replaced or rebuilt. But without documentation, I’ll just let you take a freeway test drive, or I'll bring my EV for sale over to your garage and plug it in. After a 50-60 minute drive, or 5-6 hours of charging You’ll have a fairly accurate statement of battery capacity-won't You?

 

[adric22]

Lots and lots of data on ICE vehicles, we have a pretty good idea of TCO on those. Complicating the matter even more is the Prius, it is incredibly reliable over the long haul. Priuses actually appreciate in value if gasoline goes up

That is only true if you bought your Prius used. Which, this actually happened to me so I can testify to this. I bought a used 2008 prius in 2010 when gas was pretty cheap. I think I paid around $12,000 for it. Then when I traded it in for the Leaf I actually got $14,000 trade-in value for it.. Which means had I sold it on the open market I could have probably gotten more. It was all to do with gasoline being much higher back in March when we bought the Leaf.

Before that I had a 2002 Prius with 168,000 miles on it. It was still running great, although I did have to replace the battery which cost around $1,900.

 

[JPWhite]

We also don't know what the price of electric will be in the future either.

That one we are pretty sure about, it will get cheaper. Unless carbon caps are introduced but we will never do that..

I'm pretty sure it'll get more expensive. Which talks to the original point that TCO cannot be determined with absolute accuracy, its all based on assumptions, some good some bad.