linkim
Well-known member
Volusiano said:
Ingineer is Phil Sadow.
LEAF advisory group
- Thread starter evchels
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Ingineer is Phil Sadow.
HairyCairy
Well-known member
+1 Phil
+1 Dave
I nominate Tony Williams please.
+1 Dave
I nominate Tony Williams please.
RegGuheert
Well-known member
Hi Chelsea,
Thanks for spelling out your plans. It is refreshing to see this kind of open communication.
I just wanted to make a quick comment about membership. One of the things you wrote in that section was the following:
Now, I have no idea how you find someone like this and can confirm that they will communicate in a meaningful manner, but I do believe it is an important form of diversity which can benefit your efforts in trying to give helpful advice to Nissan. I guess I am always leery of preaching to the choir (or, in this case, having the choir singing to the preacher).
In any case, best of luck with your endeavors! It should be interesting!
Thanks for spelling out your plans. It is refreshing to see this kind of open communication.
I just wanted to make a quick comment about membership. One of the things you wrote in that section was the following:
I cannot tell from the context whether you intended for ALL members to be people who participate in online forums or not, but I would like to recommend that you try to find some LEAF owners who do NOT participate in ANY online EV forums. I also recommend getting one or two people who have considered a LEAF and NOT purchased. Why do I say this? Because one of the stated goals is to broaden the appeal for EVs to a wider audience. Yes, you certainly should have EV advocates on your advisory board. But you really need to include some voices of people who are just outside the currently "sold on EVs" group to get a feel for what barriers are preventing them from taking the next step.evchels said:
Now, I have no idea how you find someone like this and can confirm that they will communicate in a meaningful manner, but I do believe it is an important form of diversity which can benefit your efforts in trying to give helpful advice to Nissan. I guess I am always leery of preaching to the choir (or, in this case, having the choir singing to the preacher).
In any case, best of luck with your endeavors! It should be interesting!
Hi all,
First, thanks for the various nominations and volunteers. I know I've not responded yet to some of you individually, but it's really helpful and I've noted everyone down. By far, my biggest challenge will be narrowing the list!
Re timing, I hope to have a good combination of people sorted and most "invites" out by the end of the week. And it will take a few weeks to get things going- Nissan is interested in hosting a kick-off meeting, etc. However, I know there's some concern about getting going on some topics, and we can certainly do that even as things are getting organized if there are discussions you all want to have in this context. Happy to have help and input from anyone who's willing to give it.
First, thanks for the various nominations and volunteers. I know I've not responded yet to some of you individually, but it's really helpful and I've noted everyone down. By far, my biggest challenge will be narrowing the list!
Re timing, I hope to have a good combination of people sorted and most "invites" out by the end of the week. And it will take a few weeks to get things going- Nissan is interested in hosting a kick-off meeting, etc. However, I know there's some concern about getting going on some topics, and we can certainly do that even as things are getting organized if there are discussions you all want to have in this context. Happy to have help and input from anyone who's willing to give it.
Stoaty
Well-known member
I would suggest Surfingslovak for the advisory group, assuming he has the time for it. His insights and analysis have been very helpful to the MNL group.
RegGuheert said:
I don't have a particular requirement for everyone to be in online forums, but within the group, I'm hoping to have someone in most of the major ones. If just a few people are active enough to hit several, great. My general thought is basically if the group is to represent the broader LEAF/EV community (and to some degree, the market), we need to be reasonably connected to it, that's all. But there are certainly valuable perspectives from folks who don't engage in this way.
RegGuheert said:
I've been pondering that idea as well, for the same reasons you suggest. At the same time, others have expressed concern about it. Regardless of whether there are any non-owners in the group from the start, I agree about soliciting that perspective.
charlie1300
Well-known member
+1 Phil , +1 Tony Williams, Also Mike Walsh
Suggested topics for the Group to Advise Nissan on:
1) making sure prospective buyers have reasonable expectations on range & battery life. If I had seen the Andy Palmer video before I purchased, I would have leased. Was already on the bubble because I was concerned about the battery, even though I didn't like the idea of lease at all. I know Nissan wants this to be the EV for the masses, but at this point in the technology, it's to the Nissan's disadvantage to sell Leafs to people who will find the car useless after a couple of years of capacity loss. I will probably be OK myself, since I did factor in 20% loss in five years, though I thought it would be linear. But that is only because I read this forum.
2) It seems that public charging is dead in the water in most states. The burial service for QC has already been held.(thank you, SAE !) Clearly Nissan expected this to move faster. If the vast majority of near term future Leaf owners will only be able to charge at home, how does Nissan reset range expectations?
3) There is a laundry list of improvements on the dash displays and driver info that has been discussed here. Is Nissan listening to any of this? GOM, numeric display over bars, SOC%, etc
4) I know you say the rapid loss of battery capacity in Phoenix is not on the agenda, but at least Nissan needs to consider that some areas of the US (and the world) have extremes of hot or cold that make a Leaf a poor performing Vehicle. They will shoot themselves in the foot if they don't acknowledge that by not marketing in those areas at all, or leasing only, or offering an optional TMS. I still don't think Nissan has grasped the extent or severity of the problem in areas like Phoenix. Andy Palmer in the video still was talking about only a handful of problem cars. The Wiki says otherwise.
Suggested topics for the Group to Advise Nissan on:
1) making sure prospective buyers have reasonable expectations on range & battery life. If I had seen the Andy Palmer video before I purchased, I would have leased. Was already on the bubble because I was concerned about the battery, even though I didn't like the idea of lease at all. I know Nissan wants this to be the EV for the masses, but at this point in the technology, it's to the Nissan's disadvantage to sell Leafs to people who will find the car useless after a couple of years of capacity loss. I will probably be OK myself, since I did factor in 20% loss in five years, though I thought it would be linear. But that is only because I read this forum.
2) It seems that public charging is dead in the water in most states. The burial service for QC has already been held.(thank you, SAE !) Clearly Nissan expected this to move faster. If the vast majority of near term future Leaf owners will only be able to charge at home, how does Nissan reset range expectations?
3) There is a laundry list of improvements on the dash displays and driver info that has been discussed here. Is Nissan listening to any of this? GOM, numeric display over bars, SOC%, etc
4) I know you say the rapid loss of battery capacity in Phoenix is not on the agenda, but at least Nissan needs to consider that some areas of the US (and the world) have extremes of hot or cold that make a Leaf a poor performing Vehicle. They will shoot themselves in the foot if they don't acknowledge that by not marketing in those areas at all, or leasing only, or offering an optional TMS. I still don't think Nissan has grasped the extent or severity of the problem in areas like Phoenix. Andy Palmer in the video still was talking about only a handful of problem cars. The Wiki says otherwise.
Hello Chelsea, I would like to throw my hat into the ring for the advisory board. I am leasing my 2012 Leaf, putting on a little over 1,000 miles per month here in Chicago. Get to experience the vehicle in the cold of winter and the heat of summer (but not as hot as AZ!)
Getting by with a basic level 1 charger used in my garage.
I really like what you say about balance, having honest and factual information to share.
As the owner of a Computer business, it gives me a lot of flexibility in my schedule, I look forward to hearing from you.
Rob
*Webex type of collaboration would make sense for many of the 'meetings'
Getting by with a basic level 1 charger used in my garage.
I really like what you say about balance, having honest and factual information to share.
As the owner of a Computer business, it gives me a lot of flexibility in my schedule, I look forward to hearing from you.
Rob
*Webex type of collaboration would make sense for many of the 'meetings'
mkjayakumar
Well-known member
Phil
Tony Williams
Dave
Ticktock
RegGuheert
These folks (among many others) have contributed immensively in this forum.
Jay
Tony Williams
Dave
Ticktock
RegGuheert
These folks (among many others) have contributed immensively in this forum.
Jay
Volusiano
Well-known member
Oops, sorry for the mispell. Apology to Phil.linkim said:
I hope the advisory group will include some female members, too. So far the list appears to be all males.
EVPowers
Well-known member
Chelsea,
I would be happy to volunteer as well, in order to bring a larger community perspective to the discussion.
Like, you, I am not an owner, but certainly have interacted with owners for a long time and have been a proponent of educating the public on these vehicles. Too often the Midwest perspective gets left out of these discussions, but hopefully not this time.
I would be happy to volunteer as well, in order to bring a larger community perspective to the discussion.
Like, you, I am not an owner, but certainly have interacted with owners for a long time and have been a proponent of educating the public on these vehicles. Too often the Midwest perspective gets left out of these discussions, but hopefully not this time.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
EVPowers said:
I would gladly support Eric on the board. he has already demostrated a huge interest in the EV community and is very good spokesman to represent us!
ElectricVehicle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2010
- Messages
- 631
I volunteer to be on the board.
Serial EV Driver GM EV1 -> Toyota RAV4 EV -> Nissan LEAF.
Issues of all involved need to be communicated. For example if there are conditions under which a LEAF should only be driven 7,500 miles a year, that needs to be communicated and incorporated in the warranty terms. Using the warranty, since there is little or no other concrete guidance with specific numbers, one should expect to be able to drive the LEAF 12,000 miles annually in any circumstances where it is sold. We've come to learn that is not the case. That's a key example for improving the communication and selling the vehicle to people whose needs the LEAF will exceed over the entire time they own the vehicle and being honest with people who have long commutes, stressful climates that the LEAF is not appropriate for. Would you sell a Winnebago mobile home to commute to work? No. Sell the right vehicle for the right mission with transparency over the lifetime of that vehicle - not just year 1 but years 1 through 10!
We have to make EVs work for all stakeholders and become an economically sustainable business. Grants and subsidies are a great way to start the market but we need to transition to sustainable business models at volume with
EVs need to be marketed to people who will benefit from the unique advantages of an EV. Especially as we are trying to ramp up the adoption of EVs. Selling the good points of an EV, quiet, smooth, responsive, powerful, predictable - a joy to drive and enjoy your music in a low noise environment. The LEAF is a great commuter car and gains versatility with workplace, public and DC Fast charging. The LEAF is not the vehicle if you want to drive from San Francisco to LA in 6 hours -use your other vehicle, rent a car or fly for that mission. Pick the right vehicle for the mission.
I'm committed to helping EVs, including, of course, the LEAF, succeed to the benefit of all stakeholders.
I'd also nominate Paul Stith and George Betak if they're interested.
Serial EV Driver GM EV1 -> Toyota RAV4 EV -> Nissan LEAF.
Issues of all involved need to be communicated. For example if there are conditions under which a LEAF should only be driven 7,500 miles a year, that needs to be communicated and incorporated in the warranty terms. Using the warranty, since there is little or no other concrete guidance with specific numbers, one should expect to be able to drive the LEAF 12,000 miles annually in any circumstances where it is sold. We've come to learn that is not the case. That's a key example for improving the communication and selling the vehicle to people whose needs the LEAF will exceed over the entire time they own the vehicle and being honest with people who have long commutes, stressful climates that the LEAF is not appropriate for. Would you sell a Winnebago mobile home to commute to work? No. Sell the right vehicle for the right mission with transparency over the lifetime of that vehicle - not just year 1 but years 1 through 10!
We have to make EVs work for all stakeholders and become an economically sustainable business. Grants and subsidies are a great way to start the market but we need to transition to sustainable business models at volume with
EVs need to be marketed to people who will benefit from the unique advantages of an EV. Especially as we are trying to ramp up the adoption of EVs. Selling the good points of an EV, quiet, smooth, responsive, powerful, predictable - a joy to drive and enjoy your music in a low noise environment. The LEAF is a great commuter car and gains versatility with workplace, public and DC Fast charging. The LEAF is not the vehicle if you want to drive from San Francisco to LA in 6 hours -use your other vehicle, rent a car or fly for that mission. Pick the right vehicle for the mission.
I'm committed to helping EVs, including, of course, the LEAF, succeed to the benefit of all stakeholders.
I'd also nominate Paul Stith and George Betak if they're interested.
FairwoodRed
Well-known member
Chelsea,
I like that you are creating the terms now, in front of us. Even if my opinion is never voiced, much less headed, I still feel that I had the opportunity and that means a lot to me.
I’d like to recommend against Phil, for purely selfish reasons: He is working on too many good things that I want to see finished
Other than that, he’d be a great panel member.
Regarding ways that Nissan can improve communication, Look at grabby brakes. I complained about them a year ago. I got a case number from Nissan and had several one on one email conversations. Not once did I hear that Nissan said they had a problem, or even that they were trying to make an improvement. That lack of communication left me feeling ignored by Nissan, when the truth was that Nissan was working to address my concerns and I should have been feeling valued. If Nissan wanted to really WOW me, they could have even included a few of the vocal people on this board to test their fix before it was released. Even if it made my brakes worse, I would have been willing to try the fix in the interest of helping make the car better and sharing the progress with the community. Heck, participating in an alpha or beta test is a badge of honor.
I like that you are creating the terms now, in front of us. Even if my opinion is never voiced, much less headed, I still feel that I had the opportunity and that means a lot to me.
I’d like to recommend against Phil, for purely selfish reasons: He is working on too many good things that I want to see finished
Other than that, he’d be a great panel member. Regarding ways that Nissan can improve communication, Look at grabby brakes. I complained about them a year ago. I got a case number from Nissan and had several one on one email conversations. Not once did I hear that Nissan said they had a problem, or even that they were trying to make an improvement. That lack of communication left me feeling ignored by Nissan, when the truth was that Nissan was working to address my concerns and I should have been feeling valued. If Nissan wanted to really WOW me, they could have even included a few of the vocal people on this board to test their fix before it was released. Even if it made my brakes worse, I would have been willing to try the fix in the interest of helping make the car better and sharing the progress with the community. Heck, participating in an alpha or beta test is a badge of honor.
FairwoodRed
Well-known member
I've met Kelly and I support his nomination. He has a good grasp on many of the issues that concern me and others as well. He was well spoken and able to effectively explain new ideas to me.kcarmich said:
surfingslovak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 3,809
Yes, Kelly would be great. Same for Bill Clendinning, although he is likely not on MNL. I had an opportunity to interact with Kevin Sharpe and Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield, and I would heartily recommend both as well. Nikki drives a Leaf in and around Bristol, UK.FairwoodRed said:
ksnogas2112
Well-known member
Chelsea,
First thank you for your hard work and that of everyone else who is recommended for the board. One thing you might want to consider is some type of rotation. This could be sort of like the UN Security Council with the permanent main players and the rotating outliers. I would also recommend one of the rotational positions be from a new EV owner to keep the fresh impression of the vehicle and current new user experience available so it doesn't end up being group entirely of experienced EV's owners familiar with the in's and out's of ownership.
This might be an area where Nissan can assist by including a questionnaire with the purchase so the board would have a fresh pool of users from which to draw.
One point on your opening post with which I would disagree. EV's are mainstream. You can't make a vehicle available in 'the heartland', have it sell no matter how few, and have electric charging stations in areas that are remote like Cummings Center Kansas (http://maps.google.com/?q=Cummings%20Center" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false without being mainstream.
EV's are mainstream. They are just an underpopulated branch of the stream. We are a branch that is vulnerable but with time even the smallest tributary adds a drop to the ocean.
Tom
First thank you for your hard work and that of everyone else who is recommended for the board. One thing you might want to consider is some type of rotation. This could be sort of like the UN Security Council with the permanent main players and the rotating outliers. I would also recommend one of the rotational positions be from a new EV owner to keep the fresh impression of the vehicle and current new user experience available so it doesn't end up being group entirely of experienced EV's owners familiar with the in's and out's of ownership.
This might be an area where Nissan can assist by including a questionnaire with the purchase so the board would have a fresh pool of users from which to draw.
One point on your opening post with which I would disagree. EV's are mainstream. You can't make a vehicle available in 'the heartland', have it sell no matter how few, and have electric charging stations in areas that are remote like Cummings Center Kansas (http://maps.google.com/?q=Cummings%20Center" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
without being mainstream. EV's are mainstream. They are just an underpopulated branch of the stream. We are a branch that is vulnerable but with time even the smallest tributary adds a drop to the ocean.
Tom
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