LEAF advisory group

[evchels]

Sorry Chelsea but your response is a friggin cop-out. Someone does not want Phil on the committee. It would look bad if Phil called bullshit on some technical aspect of discussions. Because we all know that he knows more about how a Leaf works than any idiot at Nissan.
This whole friggin process is a sham. It is all corporate speak for kicking the can down the road.
Phil has done more to make driving a Leaf a better experience than Nissan has. He makes the corporation look bad because they did a bad job.
Shame on Nissan.

I appreciate the feedback, but I have not had any conversation whatsoever with Nissan about Phil, on this front or any other. So it's not appropriate to blame them for my choice.

However, I've not shied away from including people willing to call bullshit and don't envision them holding their tongues with Nissan. At the same time, it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason), or to potentially have Nissan become more guarded in their conversation with us about any technical issues because he's in the room. I don't know if either would be an issue, but it seemed more prudent to me for Phil to remain an independent resource to the group and the community.

And to Dave's point, there are lots of people who would be great choices for one reason or another that can't be "officially" included purely because of group size limitations. I hope they'll still participate in the dialogue here or elsewhere, or remain willing to join the advisory group as membership changes. If not, it's the community's loss.

 

[mwalsh]

However, I've not shied away from including people willing to call bullshit and don't envision them holding their tongues with Nissan. At the same time, it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason)

NDA? How's that going to help the dialog be anything other than one-way. What a cluster f**k. Thank you for NOT choosing me Chels.

 

[evchels]

However, I've not shied away from including people willing to call bullshit and don't envision them holding their tongues with Nissan. At the same time, it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason)

NDA? How's that going to help the dialog be anything other than one-way. What a cluster f**k. Thank you for NOT choosing me Chels.

An NDA isn't a given, but is a possibility for specific discussions with Nissan (I talked about why this might make sense in my first posts about the group- see "communication": http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10267#p233671 )

 

[Stoaty]

My opinion: Chelsea is doing a fine job selecting people. Tony Williams certainly isn't going to be a Yes-man. It's going to take time to see if this advisory board is helpful; let's cut her some slack.

 

[Ingineer]

However, I've not shied away from including people willing to call bullshit and don't envision them holding their tongues with Nissan. At the same time, it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason), or to potentially have Nissan become more guarded in their conversation with us about any technical issues because he's in the room. I don't know if either would be an issue, but it seemed more prudent to me for Phil to remain an independent resource to the group and the community.

I might be willing to agree with some of what you've said Chelsea, but I don't agree here. I seriously doubt Nissan is ever going to "get technical" anyway, and I doubt even if they asked me to sign a NDA, and even if I did, it would be of limited scope. On my own, I've already managed to amass a wide scope of knowledge about the Leaf and it's systems. I can't envision any scenario where they would give me any super-seekrit technical knowledge I don't already have, as the minutiae would way too detailed at this point for me to actually learn something. Any NDA wouldn't likely be about anything that affects my business. (In the off-chance, I could always opt-out of that meeting)

On the other hand, I can envision Nissan becoming more guarded if they ever attempted to provide any half-truths or inaccurate information, which I would likely correct. I seriously doubt any of this is going to get that technical, and I doubt they are going to send their Japanese-speaking engineers into a room with us anyway. Besides, They've already done it! (not much was learned)

I've been an Engineer long enough to know that at a company like Nissan, most decisions made are not ultimately engineering calls, so in many ways their hands are tied. (Marketing, Legal, Bean Counters, etc)

The reason I thought I might be useful in this position is because I've been working with EV's for over 35 years now, and I've got a very good sense now of what it takes and what people want. Being that our customer list is now the Largest collection of EV owners anywhere (outside of Nissan), I've got a very good window into their target market, probably much better so than the poor "market research" information they presently have.

-Phil

 

[evchels]

the other thing is this is not a technical focus group because if it was, then picking me is a HUGE mistake and Phil would be at the top of a very short list.

This is a Marketing focus. It is primarily for those who have experience in talking with other people who have EV interest and Phil DOES have a lot of experience doing that as all who were chosen for this group. There are a lot of EV evangelists out there who have a very fair balanced outlook on what EVs need to succeed and there is more than one way to get that success.

Yes, sort of. I wouldn't say that the group has a marketing focus per se, but it's certainly meant to represent the community of users and enthusiasts- some of whom are technically inclined, others not. Marketing- especially in terms of better (and more realistically) communicating about the vehicle in that process, the dealer/purchase experience, etc., is certainly one thing I'd hope we can affect, but I suspect the group's priority will be establishing a more solid foundation of engagement with the current users.

 

[downeykp]

Mike, I could not agree with you more. The only guy on the forum who can call bullshit from a technical standpoint is disqualified because of a NDA!! WTF!!!
This is really a corporate cluster f**k.
This whole process is a sham.
Nissan, whomever should be ashamed.

However, I've not shied away from including people willing to call bullshit and don't envision them holding their tongues with Nissan. At the same time, it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason)

NDA? How's that going to help the dialog be anything other than one-way. What a cluster f**k. Thank you for NOT choosing me Chels.

 

[TomT]

Remember the old adage: "Keep your expectations low and you will not be disappointed..."

 

[evchels]

Remember the old adage: "Keep your expectations low and you will not be disappointed..."

Hey, I'm not making any guarantees either with respect to what Nissan will actually do with our input. And given the history, my own expectations are fairly tempered.

However, half the group was nominated repeatedly by this forum as smart, insightful, balanced owners who would also call things as they are, and were chosen for that reason. I'd hope folks don't now dismiss the idea because one nominee (and not the only one, of course) wasn't chosen.

 

[evchels]

However, I've not shied away from including people willing to call bullshit and don't envision them holding their tongues with Nissan. At the same time, it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason), or to potentially have Nissan become more guarded in their conversation with us about any technical issues because he's in the room. I don't know if either would be an issue, but it seemed more prudent to me for Phil to remain an independent resource to the group and the community.

I might be willing to agree with some of what you've said Chelsea, but I don't agree here. I seriously doubt Nissan is ever going to "get technical" anyway, and I doubt even if they asked me to sign a NDA, and even if I did, it would be of limited scope. On my own, I've already managed to amass a wide scope of knowledge about the Leaf and it's systems. I can't envision any scenario where they would give me any super-seekrit technical knowledge I don't already have, as the minutiae would way too detailed at this point for me to actually learn something. Any NDA wouldn't likely be about anything that affects my business. (In the off-chance, I could always opt-out of that meeting)

On the other hand, I can envision Nissan becoming more guarded if they ever attempted to provide any half-truths or inaccurate information, which I would likely correct. I seriously doubt any of this is going to get that technical, and I doubt they are going to send their Japanese-speaking engineers into a room with us anyway. Besides, They've already done it! (not much was learned)

I've been an Engineer long enough to know that at a company like Nissan, most decisions made are not ultimately engineering calls, so in many ways their hands are tied. (Marketing, Legal, Bean Counters, etc)

The reason I thought I might be useful in this position is because I've been working with EV's for over 35 years now, and I've got a very good sense now of what it takes and what people want. Being that our customer list is now the Largest collection of EV owners anywhere (outside of Nissan), I've got a very good window into their target market, probably much better so than the poor "market research" information they presently have.

-Phil

I appreciate the response, Phil- and agree completely on the accuracy and value of all the market research out there. Ugh.

 

[downeykp]

BS

Remember the old adage: "Keep your expectations low and you will not be disappointed..."

Hey, I'm not making any guarantees either with respect to what Nissan will actually do with our input. And given the history, my own expectations are fairly tempered.

However, half the group was nominated repeatedly by this forum as smart, insightful, balanced owners who would also call things as they are, and were chosen for that reason. I'd hope folks don't now dismiss the idea because one nominee (and not the only one, of course) wasn't chosen.

 

[N952JL]

I have read through 10 pages of responses. While I like the idea of this group, it has lost most if not all of it's credability. And it hasn't even started yet.

Why do I say that. Before I get into that, let me give you some background. I'm not in Ca. I'm in middle GA. One of the forgoten locations for the Leaf. I was the first person in GA to put my 99 down for the leaf but for what ever reason, about the third or forth to receive their car. (It seems like all the early deliveries were to Atlanta dealers not lowly middle GA). I say all this because I don't know any body. I've never met a fellow leaf owner, but have talked to everyone who has later purchased a leaf in middle GA. I've never been to a Leaf area meeting. There isn't any within range and no charging stations between Macon and Atlanta to get to one. Again I know no one and the only opinions I would have are based on performance of the people I read about here on this forum.

It is based on the body of work I've seen produced from Phil that I believe any advisory group on an EV that doesn't have him as a member has lost it's credabilty. Based on what I have seen as a proven record of achievements, no one should have even been considered before him. Period. I have review all of Phil's after market and published research projects. I have purchased only one, because only one is within the scope of my needs. (I'm still waiting for the leafscan). I have not always agreed with Phil in various topics, but I do hear what he says. He has earned my respect because he has performed.

What projects have been produced by other members of this group? Have they produced anything? Phil has. His EVSE upgrade is problably the most purchased upgrade since the release of the Leaf and not one person has complained it did not do what was advertised. I haven't purchased one because I'm leasing my Leaf and will have to turn it back in. And since I have a 240 in the garage I haven't even open the bag to the one that came with the leaf. Again, has any of the others produced anything as popular?

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[thankyouOB]

my thoughts, exactly.

 

[Nubo]

Chelsea has enough of a history that I'd be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Too soon to condemn Nissan in this process, imo. But if the LEAF owners community shows itself to be "impossible", it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Calling BS on technical issues is one thing, but some of these comments are going to far, imho.

I'd hate for the "impossible" image to be perpetuated more widely in Nissan. I'm sure some of you remember the Nissan Service Manager who disliked LEAF customers and had no problem with his staff ignoring them as they waited for service. A bit of online digging showed that he WAS an actual service manager, by the way....

 

[TonyWilliams]

My opinion: Chelsea is doing a fine job selecting people. Tony Williams certainly isn't going to be a Yes-man. It's going to take time to see if this advisory board is helpful; let's cut her some slack.

I don't know... I'm becoming mesmerized by those who keep saying "instrument failure". Oh great Nissan, please tell me what to think.....

Then I woke up :mrgreen:

 

[mwalsh]

I'm not knocking Chelsea...she's got credibility up the ying-yang. But I've got a feeling that (sadly) dealing with the other side is going to be like wrestling a pig!

 

[JPWhite]

it didn't make sense to me to potentially have Phil's activities restricted or scrutinized because he's signed an NDA (another MNL-nominated invitee with an interest in aftermarket changes declined for this reason), or to potentially have Nissan become more guarded in their conversation with us about any technical issues because he's in the room.

Oh OK. That makes sense. I maintain a LEAF blog and I'm sure Nissan would be concerned about me sticking to an NDA or being limited as to what I could say or speculate on a blog. Tennessee are placed as the 9th state for LEAF purchases, so there is plenty of choice if they want someone from TN.

 

[ksnogas2112]

All,
I know I'm still kinda the new guy around here but maybe we should give it a chance before we condemn it outright before it's started?

I agree Phil has done and hopefully will continue to do awesome things for the community. I agree that maybe he should have been the one to decide on accepting the NDA etc instead of having the decision been made for him.

Chelsea's been involved with EV's for an extended period of time too and maybe we should let her give this a legitimate chance.

Things have been pretty heated here over the last 3 months especially with the battery concerns that are so much on everyone's mind. Let's not shackle the opportunity that is here with anger and prejudice.

Just my 2 cents. Here's your complimentary pick axe to poke holes.

Tom

 

[rickbecker]

Perfection does not exist and I do not expect the LEAF Advisory Group to be perfect. I agree that Phil would have been an ideal choice, but I believe that Chelsea has the best interests of the EV community in mind and I am more than willing to give her time to do the job she is tasked with. I just hope that Nissan cooperates!

 

[LEAFfan]

Remember the old adage: "Keep your expectations low and you will not be disappointed..."

The modern one is: "No expectations, no disappointments."