Leaf in California this next week!
- Thread starter mwalsh
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sjfotos
Well-known member
AH! Thank you mgrigs. the ground clearance question was one I was wondering about.
9 3/4 inches.....excellent.
9 3/4 inches.....excellent.
evnow
Well-known member
Great - quite a bit of new/confirmed info.
If this is all in December, this is really wonderful. May be 2 months of production ...
This is new. I thought they won't get to Smyrna Leaf until 2013.
This is new, again. This should be good news for all Leafers outside the rollout states.
About what is expected, I guess.
This would again be very welcome and shut off all the critics and FUD masters.
Nice.
mgrigs said:
If this is all in December, this is really wonderful. May be 2 months of production ...
This is new. I thought they won't get to Smyrna Leaf until 2013.
This is new, again. This should be good news for all Leafers outside the rollout states.
About what is expected, I guess.
This would again be very welcome and shut off all the critics and FUD masters.
Nice.
Frank
Well-known member
Has anyone that has seen the Leaf in person measured the length, width, height, and wheelbase? I haven't seen specific measurements of the vehicle anywhere. The Leaf has been compared to a Versa and Rogue in this forum but it would be nice to have the exact size of the vehicle. I have yet to see one in person so I haven't had the opportunity to lay a tape measure down next to it.
evnow
Well-known member
Frank said:
See this - lots of info, including size. The best comparison is to Prius.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=149&hilit=versa
sjfotos
Well-known member
Frank said:
From the UK Edmunds Site we captured this:
Dimensions & Capacities
Length (in.): 175.0
Width (in.): 69.7
Height (in.) 61.0
Wheelbase (in.): 106.3
Seating capacity: 5
palmermd
Well-known member
Frank said:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=3546#p3546
evnow
Well-known member
EVDRIVER said:
Yes - I doubt it really saves much at all. Looks like someone lost track of the real objectives and went on a nerd hike.
mitch672
Well-known member
At least it's less drastic than the rear wheel skirts of the Aptera, or the front wheel cowls.. It's a minor thing, but the point was for wind noise, not mileage.. The shape is designed to direct airflow around the mirrors, forming a kind of block for the wind noise from the air hitting the mirrors.
AndyH
Well-known member
Frank said:
Frank - Nissan has published dimensions for the car as well as side-view comparisons with the last gen Prius and current Insight.
Specifically - see the October 09 paper. Page 28 and 36-40.
Enjoy the 'information overload' in the four presentations.
Andy
planet4ever
Well-known member
My wife and I saw the Leaf at the Amgen finish in Santa Cruz today. Big relief for me when she at least said it looks "OK", and she wouldn't mind driving it if it was red.
I found out who their battery expert was at the booth and asked him a few questions. He said the pack was rated at "23 to 24 kWh". Playing dumb, I said I had heard that lithium ion batteries couldn't be charged to 100% or drained to 0% without being damaged. So how much, I asked, was the usable range?
The first thing he insisted, that I had also heard from someone else at the booth, was that the Leaf doesn't have a lithium ion battery, it has a lithium ion manganese battery. He insisted that made all the difference in the world. Normal lithium ion, he agreed, had a usable discharge range considerably less than its full capacity, otherwise its lifetime would be shortened. But he claimed that didn't apply to lithium ion manganese. He didn't flat out say it, but he certainly implied that a range of 23kWh could be used without damaging the battery or shortening its life.
I also asked him about the 440v charging plug, saying I had read somewhere that it would only be available on the top model. "Not true," he stated flatly, "it will be available on all Leafs." He then went on to tell me (as I knew, of course) that the 120/240v plug meets an SAE standard, and that there were currently two competing proposals for the 440v standard. "Nissan," he assured me, "is initially shipping all vehicles with the version it expects to meet the standard, but if that turns out to be wrong the company will replace the equipment in all shipped vehicles free of charge."
Finally, I told him that we might be using the car mostly for fairly short trips, rarely more than 30 or 40 miles per day. I said I wasn't sure I would need the 240v charging device, and asked if I needed to get it. "Not a problem," he said, agreeing that I probably wouldn't need it.
I found out who their battery expert was at the booth and asked him a few questions. He said the pack was rated at "23 to 24 kWh". Playing dumb, I said I had heard that lithium ion batteries couldn't be charged to 100% or drained to 0% without being damaged. So how much, I asked, was the usable range?
The first thing he insisted, that I had also heard from someone else at the booth, was that the Leaf doesn't have a lithium ion battery, it has a lithium ion manganese battery. He insisted that made all the difference in the world. Normal lithium ion, he agreed, had a usable discharge range considerably less than its full capacity, otherwise its lifetime would be shortened. But he claimed that didn't apply to lithium ion manganese. He didn't flat out say it, but he certainly implied that a range of 23kWh could be used without damaging the battery or shortening its life.
I also asked him about the 440v charging plug, saying I had read somewhere that it would only be available on the top model. "Not true," he stated flatly, "it will be available on all Leafs." He then went on to tell me (as I knew, of course) that the 120/240v plug meets an SAE standard, and that there were currently two competing proposals for the 440v standard. "Nissan," he assured me, "is initially shipping all vehicles with the version it expects to meet the standard, but if that turns out to be wrong the company will replace the equipment in all shipped vehicles free of charge."
Finally, I told him that we might be using the car mostly for fairly short trips, rarely more than 30 or 40 miles per day. I said I wasn't sure I would need the 240v charging device, and asked if I needed to get it. "Not a problem," he said, agreeing that I probably wouldn't need it.
evnow
Well-known member
planet4ever said:
Hmmm ... so what are they doing in the website ?
AndyH
Well-known member
planet4ever said:
Beautiful info! Thank you!
The only part that seems odd to me is the stuff on the battery. I work with LiFePO4 cells and battery management units. I can outline the different types of Li-Ion cells and some of the care and feeding details if desired, or point you to on-line references.
One care and feeding detail for all lithium-ion cells - including lithium manganese - is that they are much happier if we stay away from the top and bottom 10% of their ultimate capacity.
(It's also common that the end user doesn't get access to these parts of the charge curve at any time. It's like the difference between total capacity and usable capacity for a fuel tank - there will be gas in the tank when we run out. Our 'full to empty' range on the 'fuel gauge' will be 90% thru 10% of the battery's overall capacity.) A manufacturer that's done it's job correctly will not give us access to the entire battery capacity.
planet4ever
Well-known member
Now that I reread my post I realize that I may not have quoted him exactly right on one point. I wrote "Nissan is initially shipping all vehicles with the version ..." He may not have said "all". i.e. it may be an option. But I'm sure he said it would be available on all Leafs. I took that, while talking to him, as meaning it would be provided on all Leafs, but he might ave meant it was an available option on all of them.
That doesn't fully explain what they are doing on the website, but it might help with part of it.
That doesn't fully explain what they are doing on the website, but it might help with part of it.
Herm
Well-known member
He might have meant the usable capacity is 23-24kwh, thus the native pack is bigger. We know that the NEC battery is an unusual lithium manganese spinel chemistry, with an energy density of only 92wh/kg but with a high power density, able to accept a fast charge and tolerant of high temperatures.. its a rugged design. Perhaps it can also tolerate a wider DOD than other batteries.
Most likely the guy did not know what he was talking about.
You cant discharge a lithium ion cell to zero because it tends to overheat and the cells become unbalanced.. but the problem is that you cant leave it that state for any lenght of time or the cells will suffer irreparable damage. What happens if you discharge the pack down to 5%, get home only to find the power off for the next two weeks?.. The battery can be charged to 100% with no problems but it has to be done slowly and carefully.. but it does accelerate the aging if stored at 100% power.
AndyH
Well-known member
LiMn isn't that unusual. There are power tools that have been using cylindrical LiMn cells for a number of years, and LG Chem's packs for the Volt are LiMn. The cells will have a significantly shorter life if charged to 100%, and you certainly hit that they cannot be taken down to zero. But we consumers won't be allowed to get close to these areas - our "100% full" will likely be between the 90% and 10% 'ultimate' that Nissan is quoted as reporting.
They're a 'safe' Li cell like LiFePO4, but they're less expensive...and that's a significant part of the car-size pack decision process.
They're a 'safe' Li cell like LiFePO4, but they're less expensive...and that's a significant part of the car-size pack decision process.
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