Leaf is 3rd in Nationwide sales - of EV's

[Spindoctor]

Tesla is already selling more than the Volt or the Leaf.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-26/tesla-model-s-tops-gm-volt-in-n-american-plug-in-race.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

More important, is Musk saying that they will warranty the Tesla battery pack unilaterally regardless of what happens (unless it is malicious physical damage). That, to me, is much bigger news considering what Nissan is doing (or, more directly, not doing)...

Tesla is already selling more than the Volt or the Leaf.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-26/tesla-model-s-tops-gm-volt-in-n-american-plug-in-race.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[braineo]

I would love Nissan to do the same as Tesla. See if Gosh has bigger ones than Elon.

 

[Zythryn]

To be fair, Tesla is currently running through their initial backlog.
I do have to say though that I really like the improvements I see each month.

 

[RegGuheert]

“The Volt is the one that makes sense out of that whole group of plug-ins, because you can use it like a regular car when the battery runs out,” Wolkonowicz said yesterday.

I love the unbiased reporting. :roll:

 

[YashuV]

Remember one thing guys... It clearly says they expect to report 4,750 when they release the first quarter on May 8. So 4,750 cars not sold now, but sold by May 8th when they report it. So far Nissan Leaf sold 3,539 cars, plus whatever they sell in April that we will know soon enough. If April will be the same as March 2,200, then so far Nissan Leaf would have sold 5,739 cars; and that would me Nissan on top.

 

[Stanton]

Remember one thing guys... It clearly says they expect to report 4,750 when they release the first quarter on May 8. So 4,750 cars not sold now, but sold by May 8th when they report it. So far Nissan Leaf sold 3,539 cars, plus whatever they sell in April that we will know soon enough. If April will be the same as March 2,200, then so far Nissan Leaf would have sold 5,739 cars; and that would me Nissan on top.

Good point; I believe that's called putting the "cart before the horse"

 

[Zythryn]

Remember one thing guys... It clearly says they expect to report 4,750 when they release the first quarter on May 8. So 4,750 cars not sold now, but sold by May 8th when they report it. So far Nissan Leaf sold 3,539 cars, plus whatever they sell in April that we will know soon enough. If April will be the same as March 2,200, then so far Nissan Leaf would have sold 5,739 cars; and that would me Nissan on top.

This is incorrect. The 4750 is the number sold during the first quarter.
They are up around 500/week. If they maintained that, they would be up around 7250 for the year by the meeting.

 

[kikbuti]

I heard through the grapevine that Nissan was counting sales before the cars were actually delivered to the dealer.

 

[DeaneG]

Around my home in silicon valley, I see about as many Teslas as Leafs - that is, a lot of each. It's a remarkable success for Tesla in a short period of time, though this area is exactly the sweet spot for sales of a high-end luxury EV.

I mentioned to my wife that maybe we should get a Tesla, and she said, "Why would you want the same thing everyone else has?"

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I heard through the grapevine that Nissan was counting sales before the cars were actually delivered to the dealer.

you would have heard it from the grapevine because its not true anywhere else

 

[TomT]

One of the big difference is that the "big" car companies are basically selling EVs like they have always sold cars. Tesla is not!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/04/27/tesla-better-warranty-check-upgradeable-cars-sure-500-mile-batteries-maybe-soon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cgaydos]

I heard through the grapevine that Nissan was counting sales before the cars were actually delivered to the dealer.

you would have heard it from the grapevine because its not true anywhere else

There are very strict accounting rules for public companies that determine when a product sale can be counted in the reported numbers. I don't know the rules for cars but almost certainly it would require a signed purchase or lease contract, which precludes counting cars that have been reserved in advance.

This is why dealers will occasionally do funny things such as giving out a loaner for a weekend if the deal includes a trade-in and the new car hasn't yet been dealer prepped. This allows the dealer to count the sale immediately which may qualify it for extra incentives from the manufacturer. (If ever your dealer suggests this ask them how much it's worth to them - you may get extra accessories thrown in.)

 

[kikbuti]

I heard through the grapevine that Nissan was counting sales before the cars were actually delivered to the dealer.

you would have heard it from the grapevine because its not true anywhere else

There are very strict accounting rules for public companies that determine when a product sale can be counted in the reported numbers. I don't know the rules for cars but almost certainly it would require a signed purchase or lease contract, which precludes counting cars that have been reserved in advance.

This is why dealers will occasionally do funny things such as giving out a loaner for a weekend if the deal includes a trade-in and the new car hasn't yet been dealer prepped. This allows the dealer to count the sale immediately which may qualify it for extra incentives from the manufacturer. (If ever your dealer suggests this ask them how much it's worth to them - you may get extra accessories thrown in.)

I am not going to put anyone in front of the bus. Dealers continue to break the rules... selling cars and not reporting and paying off floor plan dealer, taking in trades and not paying off lien. I happen to be in the position of being privy to some of these investigations and I spent 12 years in the auto business and 26 years in banking. FWIW, I don't want to cast a shadow on Nissan, but I did hear that Nissan counted Leaf deliveries before they were physically delivered. It could have been nonsense.

 

[LEAFfan]

Tesla is already selling more than the Volt or the Leaf.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-26/tesla-model-s-tops-gm-volt-in-n-american-plug-in-race.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You're/they're comparing apples to oranges: A Tesla and a LEAF are BEVs, a Volt is a plug-in hybrid. So LEAF is #2 for BEVs.

 

[cgaydos]

I am not going to put anyone in front of the bus. Dealers continue to break the rules... selling cars and not reporting and paying off floor plan dealer, taking in trades and not paying off lien. I happen to be in the position of being privy to some of these investigations and I spent 12 years in the auto business and 26 years in banking. FWIW, I don't want to cast a shadow on Nissan, but I did hear that Nissan counted Leaf deliveries before they were physically delivered. It could have been nonsense.

So there are two things that can happen here. First, the dealer can lie to the manufacturer about sales in order to achieve a monthly sales target. Second the manufacturer can lie on their public accountancy reports. The latter is far more serious legally than the former. It sounds like you've experienced investigations of matters such as these.

I'm fully prepared to believe that dealer rule-breaking is common. Sometimes its not even technically breaking a rule - for example, I know of two cases in which, in order to meet the high LEAF quotas last November, dealers had an employee lease a LEAF from them only to let them out of the lease a few months later and put the same car on the used car lot. No rule broken, but obviously those deals contributed to a misleading sales statistic.

However, I'm less prepared to believe that the manufacturer is lying about the monthly numbers. Oh, I don't doubt that if they thought they could get away with it they would, but the consequences are steep for the manufacturer and auditor if they are caught doing that. True, the dealers could do the lying about sales and the manufacturer might not be aware at all, but there are legal audit controls on the manufacturer side designed to detect that kind of abuse.

More common is for people in dealerships to say things off-hand like "the manufacturer is counting cars before they are delivered" without having the full facts to back it up. I hear stuff like that all the time that dissipates upon investigation.

 

[davidcary]

Well it should be mentioned that no taxing authority or accounting or SEC cares whether Nissan sells 5000 Leafs in a quarter or 6000 Leafs in a quarter, but they certainly care that Tesla sold 4750 Model S's in a quarter. In one case, you are talking a portion of 1% of revenue of a 80 year old company, and the other 100% of a 4 year old company.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Huh? 100% of Tesla's revenue are not from selling the Model S. It's a vast majority but not 100%. As for 4 year old company, if you're referring to Tesla, that's not correct. Per http://www.teslamotors.com/about" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, they were founded in 2003.

 

[Zythryn]

Well it should be mentioned that no taxing authority or accounting or SEC cares whether Nissan sells 5000 Leafs in a quarter or 6000 Leafs in a quarter, but they certainly care that Tesla sold 4750 Model S's in a quarter. In one case, you are talking a portion of 1% of revenue of a 80 year old company, and the other 100% of a 4 year old company.

Forget about the SEC, the investors care. If Tesla states they made 4750 sales, and they didn't, their stock would tank, big time.