Leaf's Battery in Below 0F weather, arctic blast this week...

[coulomb]

So I brushed off the Leafs just now(0F outside) and my '13 had the single blue LED closest to the driver blinking, which sounds like the 12v battery charger?

I think it's clear that the third LED on its own indicates that the main contactors are on but the car isn't in ready mode. This will happen for charging the auxiliary battery, or climate control, or battery heating.

Also, "closest to the driver" doesn't help people with right-hand drive vehicles. I'm pretty sure it's fairly cold in the UK at present, for example. I'll admit that "on the right side from the front looking in" is unwieldy, though.

 

[voltamps]

I don't think storing a Li battery in extremely cold temps is necessarily bad for it but I believe it's charging it in such extreme temps.

Yep, that has to be true. Many Li-ion batteries are outside in super-cold temperatures and I've never heard of pouch or canister or other cell shapes having the electrolyte crystallize and expand. Water is polar and crystallizes, but this electrolyte soup might not have a lot of polar junk in it to self-arrange for expansion (... that is exactly how Neil deGrasse Tyson would have put it !! ).

I'm thinking with hybrid or PHEV vehicles they are able to limit or curtail charging because you always have the ICE to fall back on.

That is right. My wife was out birding with her cell phone in sub-zero weather and the phone stopped working.
I did find an article where they said they are researching, and found, an expensive way to modify the anodes to get a Li-ion battery to function below -4F properly. Something about how the ions don't migrate when cold and interact with the anode enough.

The RAV4 Prime has 3 settings, EV only where in such temps you get no heat, Auto where it turns on the ICE when you want to heat in very cold temps and with a moderate heat setting the ICE seems to run almost exclusively and EV save where it runs the ICE to save EV charge.

Most people would always leave it in Auto, yet it would be fun to use all those settings when climbing and descending mountain slopes here in Colorado. EV Only going up, with a switch to Auto maybe needed partway up, and then EV Only going down after battery depletion. Wish my Maverick Hybrid was a PHEV, as it's 1.1 kWH battery ain't much to soak up down-slope potential energy.

I'd really have liked a heated windshield like Ford had years ago but it wasn't an option and I'm not sure how many, if any modern vehicles have a heated windshield. You could always tell the Ford heated windshield from it's gold reflection.

Had to google that one! Cool that it was an option in the '80s. Not sure why I never heard of it. Still, with all the windshields I've replaced over the last 40 years that cracked, I'm glad none was the expensive siliver & zinc oxide wire mesh Instaclear kind.
That's something you'd think would be on Lincolns-only, luxury brand territory, with the extra cost to make.

 

[voltamps]

Bet Nissan did a lot of pre-heating when it was -22F here:
https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/north-pole-to-south-pole-with-nissan-ariya

And what kind of range could you get with balloon tires like that over snow? Must have had to recharge with the support vehicles pretty frequently. When it got on highways in normal conditions, surely they changed out the Arctic tires to normal ones.

 

[knightmb]

Bet Nissan did a lot of pre-heating when it was -22F here:
https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/north-pole-to-south-pole-with-nissan-ariya

And what kind of range could you get with balloon tires like that over snow? Must have had to recharge with the support vehicles pretty frequently. When it got on highways in normal conditions, surely they changed out the Arctic tires to normal ones.

If the speeds are low and the friction low, actually quite a bit. Kind of like trains, they are heavy as **** but once they get moving on those metal rails, the frictions is so low, they move far with very little energy.

Those large tires are needed to increase friction to get the vehicle moving (and for deep snow, etc.) but out on open terrain at a steady speed, probably takes about as much power as a tonka toy. :lol:

 

[jjeff]

The RAV4 Prime has 3 settings, EV only where in such temps you get no heat, Auto where it turns on the ICE when you want to heat in very cold temps and with a moderate heat setting the ICE seems to run almost exclusively and EV save where it runs the ICE to save EV charge.

Most people would always leave it in Auto, yet it would be fun to use all those settings when climbing and descending mountain slopes here in Colorado. EV Only going up, with a switch to Auto maybe needed partway up, and then EV Only going down after battery depletion. Wish my Maverick Hybrid was a PHEV, as it's 1.1 kWH battery ain't much to soak up down-slope potential energy.

I'd really have liked a heated windshield like Ford had years ago but it wasn't an option and I'm not sure how many, if any modern vehicles have a heated windshield. You could always tell the Ford heated windshield from it's gold reflection.

Had to google that one! Cool that it was an option in the '80s. Not sure why I never heard of it. Still, with all the windshields I've replaced over the last 40 years that cracked, I'm glad none was the expensive siliver & zinc oxide wire mesh Instaclear kind.
That's something you'd think would be on Lincolns-only, luxury brand territory, with the extra cost to make.

Yes when we take our regular Prius up to northern ON Canada where it has some quite(for the midwest) long steep uphills and downhills we always fully deplete the tiny NiMh battery before we get to the top and charge it totally full and get no more regen braking before we hit the bottom of the hill. This shouldn't happen with our Rav4 Prime PHEV and it will be interesting to see how full the battery gets by the bottom of some of the longer hills. With our Prius in B mode I don't really have to ride the brakes but once the battery gets full and I gen no regen boy then I have to ride them.
And yes I believe the cost of replacement was probably the reason Ford stopped the heated windshield but I have seen a few new cars with the tell-tail gold reflection on the windshield but I wonder if that was more a tinting for effect vs a heated windshield.....

 

[fester]

Here in south-central Ohio after having my 22' SV+ for almost a year now, I can say the following about the Main Battery in sub-zero temps...
Since I knew this was coming, I set my #2 charge timer to charge during the night instead of during the day, when I usually get either full or partial trickle charging from my Solar/Battery System (5 kw). Set the timer for 2:00 AM till 7:00 AM since 0-F was expected so hopefully keep the battery slightly warmer last nite.
Up at mid-morning and its a balmy -6 F (been a long time here since near or below zero...). I monitor all my home circuits with a Brultech GEM and Dashbox, so I know the consumption of every circuit including the Leaf Charger out in a small pole-barn. Cameras up too including one overlooking the Leaf so the charge status lights (and the charger pilot lights are also visible).
The Trickle Charge came on as scheduled at 2:00 AM and off at 7:00 AM, but no additional power is being drawn since except for the approx. 4 watts the charger uses at idle state. If there is a resistance type battery heater (I don't think it does...) it isn't operating. I'd set charger timer #2 to charge for the same times for the next 3 nights as well which should bring it back to near full charge. None of the Blue Dash lights are active either. Power is there, so I don't expect anything else til' 2 am in the morning, with a bit warmer 12 degrees for a low.

 

[voltamps]

....... hills. With our Prius in B mode I don't really have to ride the brakes but once the battery gets full and I gen no regen boy then I have to ride them.

On my Maverick Hybrid, with a conceptually similar eCVT planetary gearset transmission as a Prius or RAV4, engine braking is used when the hybrid battery gets full going downhill, all orchestrated by the computer.

 

[voltamps]

The Trickle Charge came on as scheduled at 2:00 AM and off at 7:00 AM, but no additional power is being drawn since except for the approx. 4 watts the charger uses at idle state. If there is a resistance type battery heater (I don't think it does...) it isn't operating.

The heater probably didn't ever need to operate. The Owner's Manual ('22 SV+ 62kWH) says it will first turn on when it gets as cold as -11F outside & the car is plugged in.

I guess no damage is done to the electrolyte inside the cells, or the structure when extreme cold hits it. Engineers have to design it to handle the different coefficients of thermal expansion of each cell material in close contact, and I assume there isn't any liquid crystallization to throw a monkey wrench into it.

Any damage might show up on an annual EV Battery Usage Report, which I'm having done Dec. 28 to support the battery warranty.

 

[jjeff]

....... hills. With our Prius in B mode I don't really have to ride the brakes but once the battery gets full and I gen no regen boy then I have to ride them.

On my Maverick Hybrid, with a conceptually similar eCVT planetary gearset transmission as a Prius or RAV4, engine braking is used when the hybrid battery gets full going downhill, all orchestrated by the computer.

Yes the Prius does this also when the battery becomes totally full in B mode, the engine speed revs way up, still not as much braking as regen though but something is better than nothing to not have to ride the brakes so hard.

 

[goldbrick]

I left my 2017 Leaf S plugged in outside to charge on the Nissan L1 EVSE during 2 nights of cold weather (low was about -10F, IIRC). In the morning the battery temp showed 2 bars and quickly went to 3 bars after a few minutes of driving. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that kind of weather very often but it went well this time.

 

[jjeff]

While not very cold today, 22F I took my '12 Leaf out for a drive. I'm happy to report all the lights associated with brake failure had gone away from the last time I tried to drive it when it was 0F. Back then I had multiple dash lights on, which I'm guessing was due to a frozen brake booster. Not sure why our 5 year older Prius drove just fine, having sat the same amount of time not driven, but it seems to be a Nissan thing as I had the same thing happen to our '13 Leaf last year and was forced to bring it into our garage to defrost. I brought the '13 into Nissan in hopes of getting a recall for just the problem I had fixed but as they said my Leaf wasn't one of the affected vehicles they didn't do anything. I'm not even going to bother bringing in my '12 and will just live with it, well until I sell it. On my '13 I thought the brakes had failed but I believe the brakes going almost to the floor was just because the brake booster had failed, none the less it did give me concern at the time. So today at 60% SOC on my '12 I had ZERO regen bubbles and was missing one power bubble, EVs or at least older EVs with 4 of 12 health bars down, sure don't like the cold
BTW the recall for the brakes was an update to exercise the brake booster even when the vehicle was off and sounded like exactly what I needed for a Leaf that sat for several days in cold temps, too bad they wouldn't do it for me

 

[SageBrush]

While not very cold today, 22F I took my '12 Leaf out for a drive. I'm happy to report all the lights associated with brake failure had gone away from the last time I tried to drive it when it was 0F. ....

Nice report, thanks for the education.

I don't know if it is possible with the LEAF, but we have acquired the habit in the cold winter months of plugging in the Bolt anytime it is home so that thermal control kicks in to keep the pack above 40F. I can see someone viewing this as a waste of electricity, but I decided to bite the bullet so that I would always have regen braking. Part of that is because we live about 1,000 feet above our common destinations, but the main reason for the behavior is to have a consistent braking experience. For me that makes for a nicer driving experience, and I suspect also a safer one.

 

[jjeff]

While not very cold today, 22F I took my '12 Leaf out for a drive. I'm happy to report all the lights associated with brake failure had gone away from the last time I tried to drive it when it was 0F. ....

Nice report, thanks for the education.

I don't know if it is possible with the LEAF, but we have acquired the habit in the cold winter months of plugging in the Bolt anytime it is home so that thermal control kicks in to keep the pack above 40F. I can see someone viewing this as a waste of electricity, but I decided to bite the bullet so that I would always have regen braking. Part of that is because we live about 1,000 feet above our common destinations, but the main reason for the behavior is to have a consistent braking experience. For me that makes for a nicer driving experience, and I suspect also a safer one.

I occasionally plugged mine in during the -F temps, it seemed mainly when SOC% was around 60% and I'd leave it plugged in until it stopped charging or roughly 90% in the case of my '12 missing 4 health bars. Even if I left it plugged in all the time I don't believe I'd have ANY regen at lower temps, in fact in warmer temps the only time I get regen is if the SOC% gets below 60%. Unfortunately, while it would be nice to get maximum regen due to the degraded battery, I hardly get any regen. This makes it a ~30-mile car in the cold and maybe 50 in the summer, a very local car indeed but still a nice car with that limitation.

 

[GerryAZ]

The internal resistance of each battery cell increases as it deteriorates and it also temporarily increases in cold temperatures. The increase in internal resistance causes the LBC (Lithium Battery Controller) to restrict the charging current (and regeneration current) in order to avoid exceeding the maximum cell voltage. I saw a real drop in regeneration during November through February with my 2011 after it had lost 2 capacity bars on the original battery. Regeneration in cooler temperatures returned to normal after the battery was replaced.

 

[voltamps]

We can assume Nissan did lots of cold-weather testing. Looks like nothing horrible happens. So many different coefficients of thermal expansion in there, yet it seems to do OK.

Out of Spec Reviews on youtube did a '23 Leaf SV+ 62 kWH battery test at -18F, colder than what I experienced here in Colorado with my '22 version of the same animal. The youtube Leaf test showed it taking 5.2 kW charging power flow from an Electrify America CHAdeMO. The video is a little long. He drove the new '23 Leaf at the end and showed it warming it's battery as he drove it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mvUF4dJJcE

The picture on the youtube video shows an older Leaf he was playing with, although it seemed to have a bad 12v battery or something so no big conclusions were made about that year of Leaf.