Letter about possible Nissan Lawsuit

[TonyWilliams]

I put in an offer on an investment property this weekend for $90,000 and it's most definitely a house.

Crap, I paid many multiples of that for my place, without a house. We had to build that !!!

 

[EVDrive]

Above you stated that the Leaf costs half the value of a house.

Never heard of hyperbole? - an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.” If this is the best example you can provide, I'll stick with Tony.

Sure maybe it was a hyperbole, still it is ironic in the context of building a legal case against Nissan for overestimating the Leaf's range. Maybe the irony was lost on most people, not on me. And yes, you could get a trailer or a manufactured home on wheels for 70k but that is not the average in the USA. Sure you could even buy a cabin for 70k, still not the US average. Tony you don't have to take my advice. And for the record I wish I could buy a house in the bay area for 70k, that would be sweet.

I don't mean this to be a personal attack. I just have high expectations for Tony because he has shown to be a very smart guy and in my opinion, Tony has also taken on the role of being the guy who is trying to establish facts in a situation with a lot of variables and misinformation. The AZ range test is an example of that. So is the 100 mile club that Tony started which after 21,000 miles of driving the Leaf I am yet to join that club and likely never will because the limitations of the Leaf and my lack of desire to drive 40 mph for 2.5 hours just to prove that what Nissan originally claimed for the Leaf range is possible (which is why Tony created that thread to show how unrealistic that claim was in the context of the average Leaf driver).

 

[EVDrive]

My 23 year old son just bought one in Feb 2012 in Phoenix for $65,000. We just sold it after his death for $85,000.

Tony, I am so sorry to learn of your son's passing at such a young age. I know it would absolutely break my heart to have that happen to one of my sons. Please accept my condolences.

Heartbreaking to hear about the loss of your son. No parent should have to go through that. I can't even begin to imagine how tough that must be. Please accept my condolences as well. I wish you the best Tony.

Puts the sometimes heated debate we all have about the Leaf into perspective. There are a lot more important things in life than a car and we shouldn't take the important things in life for granted.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Sure maybe it was a hyperbole, still it is ironic in the context of building a legal case against Nissan for overestimating the Leaf's range. Maybe the irony was lost on most people, not on me. And yes, you could get a trailer or a manufactured home on wheels for 70k but that is not the average in the USA. Sure you could even buy a cabin for 70k, still not the US average. Tony you don't have to take my advice. And for the record I wish I could buy a house in the bay area for 70k, that would be sweet.

Thanks for keeping things in context. Yes, it is hyperbole, and hopefully we can move on. My son's house was not a trailer; it was a two bedroom, two bath, two car attached garage with "bonus room" in a PUD. Not exactly trailer park town or cabins. It was built as new construction at the peak of the housing bubble.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

how many people before the LEAF was announced had heard of "LA4" drive cycle?

i have to say it was a new one on me. But if the LEAF did test on such a thing and get 100 miles then we dont have much of a case here do we because that is the only 100 mile claim i am aware of not to mention we have a thread detailing people who have driven 100 miles and there are a lot of them.

as far as the house comment? cmon are we really being that literal?

Tony; i am very sorry to hear about your Son. having experienced premature deaths of close family members, i know it is something you never get over. in time you simply learn to cope more effectively

 

[evchels]

how many people before the LEAF was announced had heard of "LA4" drive cycle?

i have to say it was a new one on me. But if the LEAF did test on such a thing and get 100 miles then we dont have much of a case here do we because that is the only 100 mile claim i am aware of not to mention we have a thread detailing people who have driven 100 miles and there are a lot of them.

I don't doubt the car got 100 miles on LA4- aka "the city cycle". Where we can, many of us encourage the use of the US06 cycle for regulatory purposes, which is much more aggressive and includes highway speeds. And while these regulatory cycles may dictate CARB or CAFE credits, or numbers on a Monroni sticker, they're not great for marketing purposes. (Just as "EREV" was originally meant for regulatory purposes, not marketing. Oops...)

And regardless of the basis, it's obviously a mistake to advertise overly optimistic range numbers for these vehicles, though just about every automaker does it on every car they make. It's not illegal, but it is stupid in the long run, especially on EVs, where the difference is more obvious than the mpg difference in a gas car. The perfect example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

 

[ztanos]

Here in Georgia, house prices are much much cheaper than the avg. I have a 1900 sq ft home on 1/4 acre with an attached 2 car garage. 4 bedrooms 2 1/2 bath and an office. I paid $92,500. So the LEAF is almost half the cost of my house.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Here in Georgia, house prices are much much cheaper than the avg. I have a 1900 sq ft home on 1/4 acre with an attached 2 car garage. 4 bedrooms 2 1/2 bath and an office. I paid $92,500. So the LEAF is almost half the cost of my house.

wow! my ex neighbor paid $65,000 for a bare lot just under 3/4 acre in size about 18 months ago when prices were actually lower than they are now. put another 11,000 in for utilities and septic. didnt even get timber rights. he says he heard they got almost $10,000 for that

 

[ztanos]

Here in Georgia, house prices are much much cheaper than the avg. I have a 1900 sq ft home on 1/4 acre with an attached 2 car garage. 4 bedrooms 2 1/2 bath and an office. I paid $92,500. So the LEAF is almost half the cost of my house.

wow! my ex neighbor paid $65,000 for a bare lot just under 3/4 acre in size about 18 months ago when prices were actually lower than they are now. put another 11,000 in for utilities and septic. didnt even get timber rights. he says he heard they got almost $10,000 for that

Yeah, there are houses around here that are going for less than $50k and they look nice. Wish I had a little money to throw at them for rentals.

 

[bioburner]

In regards to the original thread about the class action law suit, does anybody know anything about the status of the suit???? I have a 2011 Leaf sv with 3800 miles on it and lost my first capacity bar/dot at just over 3600 miles. The local dealer says that the batteries also degrade over time not just number of cycles. We bought the car new only 13 months ago. We files a complaint with NNA customer service but they refuse to even acknowlage I am complaining about lost battery capacity and insist I am complaining about a charging problem. I'm tired of being ignored by Nissan North America and we are ready to get professional ( legal) help.

 

[TonyWilliams]

In regards to the original thread about the class action law suit, does anybody know anything about the status of the suit???? I have a 2011 Leaf sv with 3800 miles on it and lost my first capacity bar/dot at just over 3600 miles. The local dealer says that the batteries also degrade over time not just number of cycles. We bought the car new only 13 months ago. We files a complaint with NNA customer service but they refuse to even acknowlage I am complaining about lost battery capacity and insist I am complaining about a charging problem. I'm tired of being ignored by Nissan North America and we are ready to get professional ( legal) help.

Your car likely sat on a dealer's lot for a long time at 100% charge, particularly if it's a 2011 model. Yes, all batteries degrade over time and cycles, and the LEAF chemistry is prone to degradation from heat and high states of charge (or both). You can click here to see my history of the events concerning the LEAF and battery problems.

Nissan won't likely do much, unless you sue them, but you might consider going after the dealer in a lawsuit to take the car back. Is there a Lemon Law in your state?

Otherwise, you're stuck with the car unless you trade it in or sell it. I know this might sound odd to you, but you might consider trading it for a leased 2013 at a lower price and a brand new battery.

Is range a problem for you daily driving, or are you just upset that its degrading?

 

[keydiver]

Have you read through any of the thread(s) concerning all that the Pheonix folks had to go through to get noticed by Nissan? And most of them had lost TWO bars. The car might be new to you, only 13 months, but to Nissan 1 bar lost on a 2 year old Leaf is just fine. How often do you charge to 100%? Is the capacity loss keeping you from making your commute? Any quickcharging (QC)? If not, my guess would be that the dealer must have kept the car charged at 100% all the time on the lot, which is rather bad.
To my knowledge, there is no class action suit. My 2012 is now 17 months old, 16,000 miles in South Florida, and I still have all 12 bars. But, with hotter weather coming on I wouldn't be at all surprised to lose a bar in the next few months.

 

[apvbguy]

Here in Georgia, house prices are much much cheaper than the avg. I have a 1900 sq ft home on 1/4 acre with an attached 2 car garage. 4 bedrooms 2 1/2 bath and an office. I paid $92,500. So the LEAF is almost half the cost of my house.

wow! my ex neighbor paid $65,000 for a bare lot just under 3/4 acre in size about 18 months ago when prices were actually lower than they are now. put another 11,000 in for utilities and septic. didnt even get timber rights. he says he heard they got almost $10,000 for that

Yeah, there are houses around here that are going for less than $50k and they look nice. Wish I had a little money to throw at them for rentals.

what do you think the ROI would be? I am always on the look out for opportunities to make some moola

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I haven't, but I did get one for my 2010 Prius I no longer own wondering if I wanted to be part of their class action lawsuit on faulty runaway cars. I ripped that rubbish up.

 

[Reddy]

In regards to the original thread about the class action law suit, does anybody know anything about the status of the suit???? I have a 2011 Leaf sv with 3800 miles on it and lost my first capacity bar/dot at just over 3600 miles. The local dealer says that the batteries also degrade over time not just number of cycles. We bought the car new only 13 months ago. We files a complaint with NNA customer service but they refuse to even acknowlage I am complaining about lost battery capacity and insist I am complaining about a charging problem. I'm tired of being ignored by Nissan North America and we are ready to get professional ( legal) help.

Hmmm, 3800 mi in 13 months works out to about 10 mi per day. That's just about my commute although I seem to have doubled your mileage in a year from other recreational trips (see signature). So, if the battery loses 9 bars and degrades by 75% (25% or the original or about 3 bars), you should still be able to travel 0.25x72mi=18mi. Sounds like your good for the next 20 years:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11425&hilit=Stoaty&start=20#p278525
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12082&start=0#p278498

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't, but I did get one for my 2010 Prius I no longer own wondering if I wanted to be part of their class action lawsuit on faulty runaway cars. I ripped that rubbish up.

I'm guessing you received a postcard for http://www.toyotaelsettlement.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I'm not looking for a handout from Toyota for "economic loss" or whatever on my Prius as I'm ineligible anyway for that anyway. However, one benefit for me is the 10 year/150K mile warranty under part "D. Customer Support Program" on certain parts.

 

[atlleaf]

Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Class Action

Nissan North America Inc. reached a class action settlement Monday over allegations that its electric-powered Nissan LEAF cars contain defective batteries that cause them to prematurely lose battery life and driving range. Under the deal, Nissan will expand its warranty for its 2011-2012 model year LEAF cars to cover battery capacity loss and repairs.

Nissan LEAF owners sued the automaker in September 2012, alleging that Nissan failed to disclose in its advertising that owners should avoid charging the battery beyond 80 percent in order to mitigate battery damage. Nissan also failed to disclose that the LEAF’s estimated 100-mile driving range was based on a fully charged battery – which directly contradicts Nissan’s own recommendation for an 80-percent max battery charge.


The class action lawsuit further accused Nissan of hiding a design defect in the LEAF’s battery system that causes the electric car to suffer “widespread, severe and premature loss of driving range, battery capacity and battery life.”

Nissan maintains that the class action lawsuit is without merit, but has agreed to expand the warranty coverage for 2011-2012 model year LEAF cars to add battery capacity loss to its existing limited warranty for up to 60 months or 60,000 miles. The new warranty will also require Nissan to repair the battery to at least 70 percent of its full capacity. If repair is not possible, Nissan agreed to replace the defective LEAF battery with a new or remanufactured one.

Class Members will be automatically included in the Nissan LEAF battery settlement unless they choose to opt out. About 18,588 people will be covered by the class action settlement, according to a motion filed July 3.

A preliminary approval hearing will be held August 12, 2013. Notice of the Nissan LEAF class action settlement will be mailed once the agreement is finalized.

The Plaintiffs are represented by Jordan L. Lurie, Andrew Sokolowski and Tarek Zohdy of the Initiative Legal Group, APC.

The Nissan LEAF Battery Defect Class Action Lawsuit Settlement is Humberto Daniel Klee, et al. v. Nissan North America, Inc., et al., Case No. 12-cv-08238, U.S. District Court, Central District of California, Western Division.

 

[wiltingleaf]

Wasn't there also an Arizona representative in the California Class action. How does that impact AZ class members?

 

[bioburner]

Yes the law suit was files on behalf of California and Arizona residents. Leaf owners in Arizona should be covered. Per the wording in the Nissan press releases it sounds like all Leaf owners in the USA will be "Covered". Only a few people in other parts of the country will be impacted.