Longer Term Storage - suggestions?

[youngr3]

Does anyone have any updated information for longer term storage? It has been suggested to leave the battery at about 50% charged and perhaps charging for 10 minutes once a week to keep it up. I have just completed a 6 week storage with this method and found that there was an increase from six bars to seven over that time period. Thus for about a total of 60 minutes where one would expect about two bars of charging there was one, and hence a use of an equivalent one bar of energy when standing for six weeks. However, the data is such that there is a significant error range. I need to store the car the next time for about 20 weeks and I would guess that charging 10 minutes per week will increase the level by about 4 bars. Should I start at about 4 bars and charge 10 min per week or should I start at 8 bars and not charge at all?

 

[smkettner]

I would do same. Start lower.... maybe 3 or 4 bars and set to just 80% max.

 

[Herm]

or just charge 5 minutes per week... but do set it for an 80% charge max in case your timer fails and starts charging continuously. Check the resting voltage (without load) of the 12v starting battery.

 

[mxp]

I have left my car charged at 80% for one week untouched, parked outside. Didnt even lose any percentage of charge.

I should think it's perfectly ok to charge it to 80% and leaving it sit for 20 weeks.

 

[Caracalover]

Let some one else use it. Half a year is too long for an EV to be off the road, we need as many out there as possible.

 

[TomT]

A number of people have reported issues when they left the vehicle connected to the Dock for an extended period. I left mine disconnected when I was gone for four weeks and at 7 bars, and it was at exactly the same bar level when I got back.

I have left my car charged at 80% for one week untouched, parked outside. Didnt even lose any percentage of charge.
I should think it's perfectly ok to charge it to 80% and leaving it sit for 20 weeks.

 

[Stanton]

FWIW, I recently left mine DIS-connected for 2 weeks @4 bars without any change. I can't think of when I will be gone that long (at one time) again, but I wouldn't leave it "connected" in any case. Besides, doesn't the telematics system stop responding after 2 weeks? To be honest, I don't think I would leave any vehicle "static" for 4/5/6 months.

 

[smkettner]

I speculate some of the charging loss is from topping off the 12v accessory battery.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I speculate some of the charging loss is from topping off the 12v accessory battery.

Exactly. Put a trickle charger on the lead acid 12v battery, unless it's outside to get its solar charge (assuming an SL model).

Leave the car unplugged at 50 - 60%.

 

[adric22]

i would point out that the Prius is known to be a problem if it is stored for a year or more without starting. the high voltage battery will drain to zero and will refuse to recharge. typically it requires replacing the battery. I would imagine the Leaf would have a similar issue. I'd leave mine connected to an EVSE. I'd rather the battery sit at 100% than at zero.

 

[TonyWilliams]

i would point out that the Prius is known to be a problem if it is stored for a year or more without starting. the high voltage battery will drain to zero and will refuse to recharge. typically it requires replacing the battery. I would imagine the Leaf would have a similar issue. I'd leave mine connected to an EVSE. I'd rather the battery sit at 100% than at zero.

Nobody is talking about draining the battery to zero, or storing it for a year or more.

Unless you have a way to remotely turn the charger on AND off (CarWings won't do both), then I'd leave it unplugged, just like Nissan does from the factory, at 50-60% battery.

Obviously, a car with Cold Weather package in cold weather would require charging to compensate for the battery heater coming on at -20C.

 

[johnr]

Let some one else use it. Half a year is too long for an EV to be off the road, we need as many out there as possible.

+1 My thoughts exactly. Why not let your car help the environment and provide cleaner, cheaper transportation to someone else in your absence.

Maybe you have a relative or friend who can benefit from using the car while you're away?

Another possibility is renting it. Some companies such as Getaround make it possible for you to earn some money renting your car, and their insurance takes care of all the risk. http://www.mint.com/blog/saving/car-sharing-03142011/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ebill3]

i would point out that the Prius is known to be a problem if it is stored for a year or more without starting. the high voltage battery will drain to zero and will refuse to recharge. typically it requires replacing the battery. I would imagine the Leaf would have a similar issue. I'd leave mine connected to an EVSE. I'd rather the battery sit at 100% than at zero.

Different battery chemistries. Prius is NiMh, LEAF is Li. NiMh have a high rate of self discharge, Li do not.

Do as you wish, but leaving a Li battery at full charge for extended periods is exactly the wrong thing to do.

Bill

 

[adric22]

Different battery chemistries. Prius is NiMh, LEAF is Li. NiMh have a high rate of self discharge, Li do not.

Do as you wish, but leaving a Li battery at full charge for extended periods is exactly the wrong thing to do.

I'll have to disagree with you again. I also run a business refurbishing laptop computers. Nearly all of these laptops use the 18650 Li-Ion cells in their battery packs. When I get in a shipment of computers, one of the first things I do is charge up all of the batteries and then test them. I test them by running the laptops until they shut off. Then I write down how long they worked. Then I recharge them all. I replace all of the dead batteries with good batteries. Then I put them in the warehouse.

OK, sounds great. The problem is, sometimes a group of computers might sit on a shelf for 6 months. Unfortunately, it happens all of the time due to priorities shifting on different merchandise coming in or being sold. When I finally get those computers off of the shelf, the batteries in all of them will be completely empty. So then I put them back on the chargers for a few hours. Guess what? You can bet that 25% of the batteries will never charge up again. Now, these are usually the older batteries. If the battery was a brand new battery it will typically recharge even after being discharged for a while. The older ones seem to be a lot more sensitive to that.

I'm actually going through this right now as I've got a bunch of MacBooks that have been on the shelf for 6 months and since this is the holiday season, pretty much everything in storage will be sold by the end of the month. I've spend most of the day going through this group of computers and finding all of the batteries that are dead so I can replace them. Sadly, these batteries were good 6 months ago when they were tested and were able to power the computer for at least 2 hours (that is my standard) but now they are dead as a doornail.

I'm trying to start a new system for 2012 where I will make it a point to charge up the batteries on stored laptops at least once every 30 days. That should save some money and eliminate the problem.

 

[ebill3]

Different battery chemistries. Prius is NiMh, LEAF is Li. NiMh have a high rate of self discharge, Li do not.

Do as you wish, but leaving a Li battery at full charge for extended periods is exactly the wrong thing to do.

I'll have to disagree with you again. I also run a business refurbishing laptop computers. Nearly all of these laptops use the 18650 Li-Ion cells in their battery packs. When I get in a shipment of computers, one of the first things I do is charge up all of the batteries and then test them. I test them by running the laptops until they shut off. Then I write down how long they worked. Then I recharge them all. I replace all of the dead batteries with good batteries. Then I put them in the warehouse.

OK, sounds great. The problem is, sometimes a group of computers might sit on a shelf for 6 months. Unfortunately, it happens all of the time due to priorities shifting on different merchandise coming in or being sold. When I finally get those computers off of the shelf, the batteries in all of them will be completely empty. So then I put them back on the chargers for a few hours. Guess what? You can bet that 25% of the batteries will never charge up again. Now, these are usually the older batteries. If the battery was a brand new battery it will typically recharge even after being discharged for a while. The older ones seem to be a lot more sensitive to that.

I'm actually going through this right now as I've got a bunch of MacBooks that have been on the shelf for 6 months and since this is the holiday season, pretty much everything in storage will be sold by the end of the month. I've spend most of the day going through this group of computers and finding all of the batteries that are dead so I can replace them. Sadly, these batteries were good 6 months ago when they were tested and were able to power the computer for at least 2 hours (that is my standard) but now they are dead as a doornail.

I'm trying to start a new system for 2012 where I will make it a point to charge up the batteries on stored laptops at least once every 30 days. That should save some money and eliminate the problem.

Disagree all you wish. The fact remains that the Prius and LEAF batteries are apples and oranges and their care and feeding is quite different. And, long term storage of Li batteries at full charge is detrimental to their useful life span.

Many, many folks use their laptops as a primary computer and leave the power supply/charger plugged in 24/7 when at home. And that, keeping the battery at constant full charge, is what cause the relatively short life of such batteries. Better to remove the battery and save it for portable use.

You might find this article helpful in your business.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:bwUczMtCThUJowerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/battery_charger_ics/804PET22li-ion-battery-life.pdf+proper+care+extends+li-ion+battery+life&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShTgDpt7upvpyBu104YBgyUgC8p03jnadCqXEfdD9f3Rtn3X6RMKfrAJR5hhvA0gPwjoOyWwia8XE6nEULSBSAxLwrdIl7n-cekFz9tJnxdeGx6dAPHBpRIO4Zmv_J18A1zsjVt&sig=AHIEtbR27HdjliaGKlC7F2rFtLH_2VSgIw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bill

 

[cwerdna]

Many, many folks use their laptops as a primary computer and leave the power supply/charger plugged in 24/7 when at home. And that, keeping the battery at constant full charge, is what cause the relatively short life of such batteries. Better to remove the battery and save it for portable use.

You might find this article helpful in your business.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:bwUczMtCThUJowerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/battery_charger_ics/804PET22li-ion-battery-life.pdf+proper+care+extends+li-ion+battery+life&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShTgDpt7upvpyBu104YBgyUgC8p03jnadCqXEfdD9f3Rtn3X6RMKfrAJR5hhvA0gPwjoOyWwia8XE6nEULSBSAxLwrdIl7n-cekFz9tJnxdeGx6dAPHBpRIO4Zmv_J18A1zsjVt&sig=AHIEtbR27HdjliaGKlC7F2rFtLH_2VSgIw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bill

Thanks for the above article, I'll have to take a look over it. I knew about the topping off being bad for batteries from http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/2007/01/thinkpad-power-manager/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (too bad the graphics are busted). Luckily Lenovo's Power Manager lets me control the charging behavior. I tend to set it to not charge until the battery drops to 35% and then to only charge to 65%, unless I need the battery life on the road/for traveling.

It really is too bad I don't know of any other laptop vendors or mainstream OSes that allow you to adjust the charge behavior like Lenovo does on their Thinkpad T and X lines (unclear how far it extends to the rest of their laptops). Someone please chime in if you know of others.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; also says it's bad to store at 100% and even worse to do it at elevated temps. It's unclear which variant of li-ion they're talking about though...

 

[youngr3]

Just an update on my longer term storage of about 4 months. The process I used was to start at about 3 bars, and charge ten minutes each week. After three months it was at > 6 but <7 bars. At this point I had a neighbour disconnect it. On arivial back after 4 months the car was still at 6 bars. I charged it up to 100% and everthing seemed to behave as normal. Next year I may try starting out at 7 bars and not charge it for the ten minutes per week.

 

[smkettner]

Just an update on my longer term storage of about 4 months. The process I used was to start at about 3 bars, and charge ten minutes each week. After three months it was at > 6 but <7 bars. At this point I had a neighbour disconnect it. On arivial back after 4 months the car was still at 6 bars. I charged it up to 100% and everthing seemed to behave as normal. Next year I may try starting out at 7 bars and not charge it for the ten minutes per week.

If it was set to go to 80% on the timer it should have been fine to stay on the schedule. The charge does help keep the 12v battery up.
Consider a Battery Minder for the 12v battery if you stay disconnected.

Carwings usually disconnects after 2 weeks.... did the periodic charging allow you to continue using CW to monitor for the extended period?

 

[KillaWhat]

The charge does help keep the 12v battery up.
Consider a Battery Minder for the 12v battery if you stay disconnected.

Carwings usually disconnects after 2 weeks.... did the periodic charging allow you to continue using CW to monitor for the extended period?

I was told by the Nissan "Trainer" that the car will charge the 12VDC battery from the Li pack every 5 days if the car is left sitting.

 

[ztanos]

I have a HP laptop that I bought in 2003. I used it as a primary computer for the 5 years I was in college. It still has the original battery in it and will still hold a 3 hour charge. I rarely take it off the dock, so it is plugged in all the time. Not disputing your claims that keeping it plugged at 100% kills the battery, just saying it doesn't always work that way since mine didn't.

Different battery chemistries. Prius is NiMh, LEAF is Li. NiMh have a high rate of self discharge, Li do not.

Do as you wish, but leaving a Li battery at full charge for extended periods is exactly the wrong thing to do.

I'll have to disagree with you again. I also run a business refurbishing laptop computers. Nearly all of these laptops use the 18650 Li-Ion cells in their battery packs. When I get in a shipment of computers, one of the first things I do is charge up all of the batteries and then test them. I test them by running the laptops until they shut off. Then I write down how long they worked. Then I recharge them all. I replace all of the dead batteries with good batteries. Then I put them in the warehouse.

OK, sounds great. The problem is, sometimes a group of computers might sit on a shelf for 6 months. Unfortunately, it happens all of the time due to priorities shifting on different merchandise coming in or being sold. When I finally get those computers off of the shelf, the batteries in all of them will be completely empty. So then I put them back on the chargers for a few hours. Guess what? You can bet that 25% of the batteries will never charge up again. Now, these are usually the older batteries. If the battery was a brand new battery it will typically recharge even after being discharged for a while. The older ones seem to be a lot more sensitive to that.

I'm actually going through this right now as I've got a bunch of MacBooks that have been on the shelf for 6 months and since this is the holiday season, pretty much everything in storage will be sold by the end of the month. I've spend most of the day going through this group of computers and finding all of the batteries that are dead so I can replace them. Sadly, these batteries were good 6 months ago when they were tested and were able to power the computer for at least 2 hours (that is my standard) but now they are dead as a doornail.

I'm trying to start a new system for 2012 where I will make it a point to charge up the batteries on stored laptops at least once every 30 days. That should save some money and eliminate the problem.

Disagree all you wish. The fact remains that the Prius and LEAF batteries are apples and oranges and their care and feeding is quite different. And, long term storage of Li batteries at full charge is detrimental to their useful life span.

Many, many folks use their laptops as a primary computer and leave the power supply/charger plugged in 24/7 when at home. And that, keeping the battery at constant full charge, is what cause the relatively short life of such batteries. Better to remove the battery and save it for portable use.

You might find this article helpful in your business.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:bwUczMtCThUJowerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/battery_charger_ics/804PET22li-ion-battery-life.pdf+proper+care+extends+li-ion+battery+life&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShTgDpt7upvpyBu104YBgyUgC8p03jnadCqXEfdD9f3Rtn3X6RMKfrAJR5hhvA0gPwjoOyWwia8XE6nEULSBSAxLwrdIl7n-cekFz9tJnxdeGx6dAPHBpRIO4Zmv_J18A1zsjVt&sig=AHIEtbR27HdjliaGKlC7F2rFtLH_2VSgIw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bill