New Nissan Survey

[GRA]

I have been very impressed with the widely reported accuracy of the Volt's DTE, compared to every other EV. I don't know how they do it, but other companies should license it if they can't do it themselves.

As to inductive charging, remember that people here are early adopters, and are willing to put up with more inconvenience than mainstream users. Anything that requires connecting and disconnecting is an extra inconvenience, and if you can do away with it, terrific (but as others have said, I'll happily put up with that as long as you first provide better range and a better battery for less cost).

Where I think inductive charging will be necessary as well as highly useful is for on-street and lot parking. If copper prices stay high, I expect we'll see a rash of stolen power cords from public EVSEs. Even if that doesn't happen, the lack of a standardized location for the charging port is problematic, especially for parallel parking. 30-60% of all urban cars are parked on the street, so this will be a major issue eventually. The Leaf's center front location is probably best as it's ambidextrous, but there are places where even that's not ideal. It would be cheaper to run power for two charging connectors off a single post, but that means the post will be located between two parking spaces (rear of one/front of the other).

And then there are the liability issues with power cords; trip and fall injuries will undoubtedly occur, and that brings the lawyers in and raises the cost for everyone. Although if in-street inductive pads were to interfere with pacemakers or something equally dire, that would be worse (Note, I have no idea if this is even possible, but the thought occurred to me).

 

[TonyWilliams]

Why do I think the results of this poll will be mentioned in the upcoming "all is well" response from Nissan?

 

[Boomer23]

Do I understand you correctly, that you responded "I expected and I still expect to see no capacity reduction at one year and 20% at 5 years" even though you have strong evidence (from the Gid meter) of some capacity reduction now ? Is this because they phrased the question such that only the loss of a full capacity bar counts as "capacity reduction" ? Perhaps you also don't wish to call attention to the fact that you are using a Gid meter? It would seem Nissan will conclude that they can put you in the fully satisfied, not complaining pile.

Not at all, tbleakne. As I stated, if Nissan had included questions about my expectation of capacity reduction for each of the first ten years separately, my responses would have differed significantly between what I expected before I made the acquisition decision and what I now expect. I would have said that I now expect to lose at least 15% capacity by year 2. But they didn't ask that question. They asked only about year 1, year 5 and year 10, and I still don't think that we know what the loss curve looks like in non-desert environments after 18 months. In addition, I was responding to the question "what do you expect?" As a consumer, I EXPECT what they told me before I got the car. I was told to expect 20% loss at 5 years and that's what I do expect. It may not be what I PREDICT, but it's what I expect from Nissan. By that, I mean that if I don't have 80% capacity after 5 years, my expectations haven't been met and that Nissan has failed to deliver what they promised.

My Gid meter evidence shows that I lost no capacity at year 1, but that I lost 13% of my driving range at 15 months. The first question asked how much loss I expected and how much I now expect at year 1, and I answered zero. I still believe that, for my car in my environment. That has exactly matched my experience. I began to lose capacity at 13 months. Note that Nissan failed to include an opportunity to enter free text comments anywhere in the survey. If they had done so, I would have told them in great detail how my expectations and those of many others haven't been met. But with this particular survey, I had no way to tell them that more than 20% loss at 5 years is beyond my expectations.

For the second question, about capacity loss at 5 years, I have no evidence that I will lose more than 20% capacity at five years. At the time of acquisition, I expected very little capacity loss for years 1 and 2, and perhaps 5% loss by year 3. Right now, after my experience and my reading here, I expect a faster loss curve for my car; 15% at 18 months, but an unknown amount by years 3, 4 or 5. In my answer to the survey, far from trying to tell Nissan that I'm fully satisfied, I was trying to tell them that I continue to expect what they told me up front, that my car shouldn't lose more than 20% at five years. That's my EXPECTATION, not my prediction.

If I had answered that I now expect far less capacity at 5 years than I expected before I got the car, my feeling is that I would be telling Nissan that I now have lowered expectations, which means that I am now more easily satisfied. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I seems that we are having a semantic discussion about the meaning of the word "expect". I guess that's better than the discussion that a past favorite president of mine had over the meaning of the word "is".

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Non desert environment; 18 months zero loss

19 months; 3-6%

 

[JPWhite]

They email it to you.

I don't really see how they can deliver a realistic DTE gauge function until the range goes way up. Right now the car would have to be able to see into the future to give you an accurate estimate.

True but there are things they could do to do such a feat.

For instance if I could program the car (via carwings) to anticipate that at 7:30 Mon-Fri I will set off from my home and head to my work address and then around 5pm do the return journey. Could the car not anticipate the route I will follow (based on past driving), the speeds I will drive along that route, the elevation changes, stop/starts etc. Thereby it should be able to anticipate mileage very well.

If I could via voice command indicate where I am heading when I start the car it could do a similar calculation.

The car can't see into the future, but we as drivers do know where we are headed and can share that nugget of information with the vehicle, if they make it easy to do so.

 

[JPWhite]

--A setting to override the charge timer if you're away from home (based on the GPS)

That's an awesome suggestion!!

 

[mwalsh]

Not at all, tbleakne. As I stated, if Nissan had included questions about my expectation of capacity reduction for each of the first ten years separately, my responses would have differed significantly between what I expected before I made the acquisition decision and what I now expect. I would have said that I now expect to lose at least 15% capacity by year 2. But they didn't ask that question. They asked only about year 1, year 5 and year 10, and I still don't think that we know what the loss curve looks like in non-desert environments after 18 months. In addition, I was responding to the question "what do you expect?" As a consumer, I EXPECT what they told me before I got the car. I was told to expect 20% loss at 5 years and that's what I do expect. It may not be what I PREDICT, but it's what I expect from Nissan. By that, I mean that if I don't have 80% capacity after 5 years, my expectations haven't been met and that Nissan has failed to deliver what they promised.

For the second question, about capacity loss at 5 years, I have no evidence that I will lose more than 20% capacity at five years. At the time of acquisition, I expected very little capacity loss for years 1 and 2, and perhaps 5% loss by year 3. Right now, after my experience and my reading here, I expect a faster loss curve for my car; 15% at 18 months, but an unknown amount by years 3, 4 or 5. In my answer to the survey, far from trying to tell Nissan that I'm fully satisfied, I was trying to tell them that I continue to expect what they told me up front, that my car shouldn't lose more than 20% at five years. That's my EXPECTATION, not my prediction.

If I had answered that I now expect far less capacity at 5 years than I expected before I got the car, my feeling is that I would be telling Nissan that I now have lowered expectations, which means that I am now more easily satisfied. Nothing could be further from the truth.

My thoughts precisely.

 

[ERG4ALL]

Regarding range accuracy, I would suggest that Nissan differentiate the key fobs like some luxury cars. That is so that the luxury car can readjust the seat and radio settings, etc. to conform to the size and habits of the key holder. I would think that the LEAF could better judge the range if it kept track of the usual driving habits of each key fob user separately. This would not only help with driving habits, but expected route as well for daily commuting.

 

[JeremyW]

On another survey that I did a month ago, that did allow text entry:

Nissan's attitude towards the early adopters has been halfhearted at best. Seriously, we are your beta testers and the community is made up of engineers, environmentalists, curious gear heads, and penny pinchers that get the lower operating costs. Together we could make the best electric car the world has ever seen. You are ignoring us, and that is a very stupid thing to do.

Still stands. :|

Jeremy

 

[LEAFer]

Regarding battery capacity ... I don't have perfect memeory of how the question was phrased, but I am pretty sure it did not ask about EXPECTATION of capacity for the various lengths of time. I believe it asked for ACCEPTABLE loss. Thus I answered identically for both questions (original and "currently").

Also there were a couple of questions that bothered me in how they were asked, and one in particular I did not understand. Maybe someone here can jog my memory and help explain the latter. It was a question about your local utility provider; it asked something on the order of "Do you allow" ( I think it was "allow" ) and it was regarding power quality. What does THAT MEAN ???? I think they were after the issue of the GE Wattstation during brown-outs, but not sure. So ... what does ALLOW mean ? Do I have a house-wide UPS or surge suppressor ? Do I let them get away with it :lol: ? Is my power dirty ?

???

 

[Boomer23]

Regarding battery capacity ... I don't have perfect memeory of how the question was phrased, but I am pretty sure it did not ask about EXPECTATION of capacity for the various lengths of time. I believe it asked for ACCEPTABLE loss. Thus I answered identically for both questions (original and "currently").

Also there were a couple of questions that bothered me in how they were asked, and one in particular I did not understand. Maybe someone here can jog my memory and help explain the latter. It was a question about your local utility provider; it asked something on the order of "Do you allow" ( I think it was "allow" ) and it was regarding power quality. What does THAT MEAN ???? I think they were after the issue of the GE Wattstation during brown-outs, but not sure. So ... what does ALLOW mean ? Do I have a house-wide UPS or surge suppressor ? Do I let them get away with it :lol: ? Is my power dirty ?

???

The only one that I remember was about whether I allow the utility to reduce my available air conditioning cooling power during high demand times and brownouts.

 

[LEAFer]

Regarding battery capacity ... I don't have perfect memeory of how the question was phrased, but I am pretty sure it did not ask about EXPECTATION of capacity for the various lengths of time. I believe it asked for ACCEPTABLE loss. Thus I answered identically for both questions (original and "currently").

Also there were a couple of questions that bothered me in how they were asked, and one in particular I did not understand. Maybe someone here can jog my memory and help explain the latter. It was a question about your local utility provider; it asked something on the order of "Do you allow" ( I think it was "allow" ) and it was regarding power quality. What does THAT MEAN ???? I think they were after the issue of the GE Wattstation during brown-outs, but not sure. So ... what does ALLOW mean ? Do I have a house-wide UPS or surge suppressor ? Do I let them get away with it :lol: ? Is my power dirty ?

???

The only one that I remember was about whether I allow the utility to reduce my available air conditioning cooling power during high demand times and brownouts.

Possible ... could the next survey taker publish the questions, please ?

 

[Juiced]

I thought the several survey questions asking what factors, in what order of importance, were important to you in purchasing the Leaf were missing a very important issue. My answer was "Duh, no gasoline needed"

 

[davewill]

... It was a question about your local utility provider; it asked something on the order of "Do you allow" ( I think it was "allow" ) and it was regarding power quality. What does THAT MEAN ???? I think they were after the issue of the GE Wattstation during brown-outs, but not sure. So ... what does ALLOW mean ? Do I have a house-wide UPS or surge suppressor ? Do I let them get away with it :lol: ? Is my power dirty ?

???

I took that question to mean did I "allow for" dirty power. Like did I unplug my car during brownout prone periods or something.

 

[mksE55]

Just received the Email questionnaire will see if I can post the Link or, I will copy and screen past all the questions if not done already. False alarm it was only the after service questions. I hope I get a shot at the big Survey.

 

[LEAFer]

... It was a question about your local utility provider; it asked something on the order of "Do you allow" ( I think it was "allow" ) and it was regarding power quality. What does THAT MEAN ???? I think they were after the issue of the GE Wattstation during brown-outs, but not sure. So ... what does ALLOW mean ? Do I have a house-wide UPS or surge suppressor ? Do I let them get away with it :lol: ? Is my power dirty ?

???

I took that question to mean did I "allow for" dirty power. Like did I unplug my car during brownout prone periods or something.

Aaah ! "Allow" as in "Do you take into account" ... that makes some sense. Still hoping someone posts the entire set of survey questions ...

 

[TomT]

Yes, there were clearly a few translation issues on the survey... I answered "No" to the "Do you take in to account" question since I am usually sleeping when the Leaf is charging and wouldn't know one way or the other if the power was dirty or browned out... I'm assuming this is in response to the GE EVSE issues that came up.

Aaah ! "Allow" as in "Do you take into account" ... that makes some sense. Still hoping someone posts the entire set of survey questions ...

 

[brettcgb]

--Putting in a real SOC meter

Why would you want an SOC meter? I would rather have a BCM which will tell me my actual battery capacity. An SOC meter is only good while the battery is new. Once you start to lose capacity, an SOC meter is virtually useless. You could be at a 20% loss of capacity, yet your 'smart' SOC meter could still say 100% SOC after a 100% charge.

If I had to choose a single gauge, it would be energy remaining (nn.n kWHr) as a numerical display. That answers the simple question "Do I have enough energy to get to x?" without getting into either SOC or BCM.

An additional gauge preference would be a SOC as a 10 or 20 segment bar if you couldn't display %SOC in the same place as the energy remaining display. That indicates if charging would help...