newbie starting & battery issues

[shale]

Greetings fellow Leafites!

I have a 2011 Leaf (bought used in CA in 2018 with a 2016 battery), and I love it! However, I've just encountered my first problem. I've been having a range of bizarre problems with starting ("I-key not detected", "parking brake needed to start", and most of all: two little lines where the battery range mile number should be). Very frustrating! I finally took it to the dealer (when it said "see dealer" and I panicked). They did a diagnostic test, charged me $145, and told me I needed a new IPDM for $1,000, and then called back to say IPDM's were no longer being made for my car.

After brief despair, I did a google search and stumbled across a man in Finland who works on EV's (Daniel Öster from Dala's EV Repair). I emailed him about my problem, and he wrote back saying:

[/quote]Hi Susanne,
Unfortunately I have no clue about nearby 3rd party workshops. BUT,
the IPDM module that sits under the hood is really easy to replace. It
also shouldn't cost much if you can find a nearby scrapper. You can
also get help from the www.mynissanleaf.com forum!

Good luck!
-Daniel Öster

>
> MESSAGE
> Dear Dala,
> I have kind of a pathetic question. Do you have any idea how can find
> someone like you, who repairs ev's, in the United States, especially in New
> England? I live in western Massachusetts and have a 2011 Nissan Leaf, which
> I love, but my IDPM has gone bad (according to the dealer) and I am at the
> dealer's mercy. They tell me that Nissan may have stopped making the part.
> Have you heard anything about Nissan abandoning 10 year old Leaf's? I would
> be heart-broken...
>
> Thank you for the wonderful work you do! I wish you were nearer by...
> Susanne[/quote]

I found a used IPDM on eBay for my car (for $200) and ordered it, but when I look at it, it looks very different from what I thought was the IPDM in my car (the black box in front of the battery?). Can anyone coach me through how to replace an IPDM or point me to a description/video of how to do this? I'm a bit intimidated. Afraid I will blow something up in the best car I've ever owned that I want to keep for another 10 or 20 years...

Thanks for this great forum!
Susanne

 

[alozzy]

It's unfortunate you didn't post here sooner as similar issues to yours often have a weak 12V battery as a root cause.

Take out your 12V battery and have it load tested (not just a voltage check).

If the battery does poorly on the load test, then replace it and then clear all DTCs using LeafSpy.

Then, wait to see if any of the issues or trouble codes return...

 

[shale]

Ah ha! I just discovered an online service manual for the Leaf. I'm sure you all know about this, but thought I'd post the link anyway: https://www.nicoclub.com/nissan-service-manuals. Haven't looked to see if I can make sense of it, but it should at least help me locate the IPDM (I hope!)

 

[LeftieBiker]

Take seriously what alozzy wrote about a weak 12 volt battery, as it is most likely the cause of your problems. To add to what he wrote: fully charge the new 12 volt battery, either before installing it or immediately after doing so.

 

[shale]

It's unfortunate you didn't post here sooner as similar issues to yours often have a weak 12V battery as a root cause.

Take out your 12V battery and have it load tested (not just a voltage check).

If the battery does poorly on the load test, then replace it and then clear all DTCs using LeafSpy.

Then, wait to see if any of the issues or trouble codes return...

Ah, thank you, alozzy and leftie biker. It's a fairly new and high quality battery, but I will do that.

I wonder if this is related. All last year during covid, I drove my car very little (averaging once a month). The 12V battery kept draining, so I finally figured out to unhook the negative battery terminal when I wasn't going to drive it for a few days. That seemed to do the trick for having a reliably starting car -- until the strange things started happening. Would routinely unhooking the battery cause problems? And if so, how can I keep my battery from draining while sitting undriven? I read about unhooking an electronic gizmo (modem? I'm sorry, I've forgotten the name and purpose of it, it is needed for CatWings) behind the glove compartment that can drain the battery, and unhooked that, but I think it's needed to be able to use LeafSpy. A conundrum. I guess I can hook it back up when LeafSpy is needed. (I will search the site for vampire drains, as I understand others have had similar problems.) Any thoughts welcome.

I just read on another posting from you, LeftieBiker, that you recommend an "AGM battery in 51R configuration." I will look into that.

I am, obviously, a very green leaf. Sorry for my not very coherent posts and not having done a thorough search of the site before posting. I'm in the middle of building a house, trying to get it livable by snow, and a bit crunched.

Thanks very much for your help with this.

 

[shale]

I'm sorry to be a pest, but I just discovered that the battery I have is an AGM D51R. (It's an AGM Optima "yellow top" -- Optima Battery D51R Group Size 51 450 CCA). Is a D51R the same as a 51R? It's only 1 1/2 years old so I hope I didn't ruin it. Is this the battery you recommend, Leftie Biker, or did you have something else in mind?

And clearly, I need to figure out how to prevent ruining another battery. I will study that part of the forum.

Thanks again for your patient help.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It shouldn't be necessary to use a battery maintainer on an EV, but in the case of the Nissan Leaf it often is. It is indeed possible that being repeatedly drained killed the YellowTop. In this situation you definitely need to have the battery tested with a load tester. If it passes, then you can probably rule out the 12 volt battery. If it fails, or the result is marginal, then you need both a new battery (preferably AGM) in the 51R group/configuration, plus a battery maintainer that connects to the 12 volt battery and prevents it from being drained. Replacing what we usually call the PDM is a fairly big job, so I strongly suggest that you start with the 12 volt battery. (If you search "12 volt battery dead" here, you will see why.)

 

[alozzy]

I read about unhooking an electronic gizmo (modem? I'm sorry, I've forgotten the name and purpose of it, it is needed for CatWings) behind the glove compartment that can drain the battery, and unhooked that, but I think it's needed to be able to use LeafSpy.

You're close

The "electronic gizmo" that can drain the battery is actually the TCU. It isn't needed in order to use LeafSpy. The device needed for LeafSpy is an OBD2 Bluetooth dongle. More details on that are in the LeafSpy manual:

https://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki/leaf-spy-pro/

 

[LeftieBiker]

And while "Catwings" would be a fun name, the Nissan Connect service used to be called "CarWings." Yes, some of the Bluetooth "dongles" can drain the battery if left plugged in, if they are never off. Did your car have one of those plugged in?

 

[shale]

And while "Catwings" would be a fun name, the Nissan Connect service used to be called "CarWings." Yes, some of the Bluetooth "dongles" can drain the battery if left plugged in, if they are never off. Did your car have one of those plugged in?

Yes, I realized CatWings was wrong after I posted it. (That's actually the name of a book by Ursula Le Guin.) I haven't had any dongles plugged in since I've owned it. Unless the previous owner left one in. I should check.

I will be taking the battery to have it checked first thing tomorrow. It's plugged into my battery charger right now. It was indeed low.

You have both been incredibly helpful and generous with your time. I am really quite blown away. And I feel like an idiot that I ordered that PDM (sounds like you've decided it's UNintelligent!)

Many thanks again!

 

[shale]

The "electronic gizmo" that can drain the battery is actually the TCU.

TCU, yes that's it!

One unrelated question: alozzy, what do you hitch up to your Curt hitch? I'm a carpenter and considering getting a small aluminum trailer, something like this: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660342_200660342 or possibly even this: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660343_200660343, though that might be bigger than the Leaf would like. I would be careful not to overload it. Curious about your experience using the hitch. (Sorry about my endless questions. Please feel free to ignore if it gets annoying.)

 

[shale]

I strongly suggest that you start with the 12 volt battery. (If you search "12 volt battery dead" here, you will see why.)

Yipes! 722 pages of posts under "12 volt battery dead." That's sobering. Thank you for steering me to the section of the forum I should be studying instead of chasing after IPDM instructions. You have saved me days of wasted time and frustration and perhaps saved my house project. My humble thanks.

 

[LeftieBiker]

That's why I'm here. Keep in mind, though, that there is no guarantee that it isn't the PDM. We're just hoping that it's yet another case of a Leaf killing a 12 volt battery. Do you by any chance leave the car plugged in for long periods (many hours, or days) after it finishes charging?

 

[GerryAZ]

2011 and 2012 will discharge the 12V battery while parked if EVSE (traction battery charging unit) is left connected or if something is left plugged in to the OBDII port. Otherwise, the traction battery should charge the 12V battery for 5 minutes every 5 days. I routinely left my 2011 parked for extended time at either the airport or my office without incident until I left a Bluetooth adapter plugged into the OBDII port--12V battery was completely dead when I returned after only 6 days. After that, I was always careful to unplug the Bluetooth adapter. The Optima yellow top 51R is a very good battery for LEAF--I hope you have not killed yours by repeated deep discharges. I replaced the OEM batteries in my 2011 and 2015 with Optima yellow top batteries and will put one in my 2019 as soon as the OEM battery shows any sign of weakness.

Edited to add: I also want to chime in that the errors you noted in your original post are indicative of a weak 12V battery.

 

[shale]

That's why I'm here. Keep in mind, though, that there is no guarantee that it isn't the PDM. We're just hoping that it's yet another case of a Leaf killing a 12 volt battery. Do you by any chance leave the car plugged in for long periods (many hours, or days) after it finishes charging?

Right, I will keep the PDM in mind as a back up.

I generally plug the car in overnight. So it gets at least 4 hours extra time plugged in than it needs. And last weekend, I forgot and left it plugged in for nearly 24 hours. I hadn't realized this could hurt the 12v battery, so I will change my ways and start charging during the day when I can set a timer on my phone to go unplug it.

I am busy reading all about 12V batteries and maintaining them, as well as your Tips and Tricks posts. I have learned more about my car in the last few hours than I have in the last three years. This forum should be required reading before getting your Leaf key.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It really should - especially a used Leaf.

 

[GerryAZ]

It is OK to charge overnight, just make sure to unplug the car in the morning. I doubt that there is a problem with your IPDM, but fear your 12V battery may be weak since it has been deeply discharged multiple times.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Shale, do you know if the 2016 battery in your Leaf is a 24kwh pack, or a 30kwh pack? What is your normal range, and how many capacity cars are showing on the virtual dash gauge? (The capacity bars are the very short bars out at the ends of the "fuel" or "charge" bars.)

 

[alozzy]

... Curious about your experience using the hitch ...

I normally just use it for my 4 bike rack, but I have also used it with a cargo carrier when camping. Haven't tried any towing - my wife got mad at me even suggesting it :lol:

It's not rated for towing at all; however, I have no concerns about the drive train getting damaged. I'm a little concerned about how strong the frame is, but I would think the battery pack stiffens up the frame considerably.

 

[shale]

Shale, do you know if the 2016 battery in your Leaf is a 24kwh pack, or a 30kwh pack? What is your normal range, and how many capacity cars are showing on the virtual dash gauge? (The capacity bars are the very short bars out at the ends of the "fuel" or "charge" bars.)

(Short answers in bold.)

I'm pretty sure it was replaced with a 24kwh pack, since the seller didn't mention it increasing the original capacity. Normal range is a little hard to say, since I live in hill country and only charge it to 80% generally. I'm guessing the range is around 80 miles? (I recently did a 75 mile fairly flat highway trip between full charges, with some battery to spare, keeping my speed at 55mph. I'm guessing averaging 40 or45mph, I might get 90 miles on flat terrain, but I have hills, so don't know.) It was at 12 bars when I bought it, dropped down to 11 for about 6 months this past year, and recently I noticed it's back up to 12 bars. Not sure what that means, though I'm guessing it's at least teetering toward 11 bars. I'm pretty religious about only charging it to 80%, try not to go below 20% (though it took me a little while to figure that out in the beginning). I'm guessing I'm quite good at saving battery while driving (slow acceleration, moderate speeds, etc.), though I don't know if that would impact Lion battery health and capacity.

I just got back from getting the 12v battery tested. I had it on the charger all night. Started at around 10v and read "deep discharge," was at 11.7v this morning. The car started up with no issues, so drove to AutoZone. The battery capacity was 15%. He said I should fully charge the battery and they should retest it after that, but he said it didn't look good. He said there must be something wrong with the car's ability to charge the battery. And he said they would honor the 3-year warranty, which is amazing news.

I am wondering whether my Optima AGM charger is working properly though, since it read 100% charged at 12.7v this morning and was on maintenance charge. I've noticed it doing this before, switching to maintenance charge too soon -- or that was my suspicion. The volts on the pre-charge screen are often lower than the volts on the charging screen, so I will get that checked as well. (And yes, I've have a charger that does maintenance charging all along and should have been doing that, but didn't know. I'm regretting not educating myself sooner and hoping I only damaged my 12v battery and not the car itself.) I don't yet have LeafSpy (a complication with a hand-me-down phone so I can't download apps. I will work on fixing that this week).

Sorry for all my long-winded replies, and thanks again for all your kind help.