Nissan : Leaf’s Battery Pack Should Last As Long As The Car

[Herm]

"Every time I've watched my car charge, the charge terminates at 394V or 394.5V "100%"
(ie 4.10v/cell) even though RAhC has only hit 280 max.. Once I saw it climb to 281 but then while still charging reset back to 280.. Incidentally, "80%" is only 4.05v/cell."

Tony, did you put a voltmeter on it?

 

[JPWhite]

Buying a new car doesn't make financial sense.

TOC of a 3 year old car driven for 7 years is much better than TOC of a new car driven for 10 years, when calculated on a yearly basis.

Normally I'd agree with you, I have never bought a new car due to the 'drive off the lot' depreciation. However getting $10,000 in tax incentives, makes buying new a possibility worth considering. In my case I saw it as essentially a break-even proposition. So new DID make sense this time around.

My next EV will probably be secondhand once there is a ready supply of them on the market.

 

[evnow]

In my case I saw it as essentially a break-even proposition. So new DID make sense this time around.

My point is - not everything needs to make financial sense. Buying a new car is a lifestyle choice.

 

[TonyWilliams]

"Every time I've watched my car charge, the charge terminates at 394V or 394.5V "100%"
(ie 4.10v/cell) even though RAhC has only hit 280 max.. Once I saw it climb to 281 but then while still charging reset back to 280.. Incidentally, "80%" is only 4.05v/cell."

Tony, did you put a voltmeter on it?

No, it's a quote from GregH. But, we SHOULD be able to measure it the old fashioned way (voltmeter).

 

[JPWhite]

In my case I saw it as essentially a break-even proposition. So new DID make sense this time around.

My point is - not everything needs to make financial sense. Buying a new car is a lifestyle choice.

OK I see. Each to his own, a car isn't a lifestyle choice for me. I'm interested in the LEAF from a technical point of view as a geek and the desire to have a vehicle that isn't affected by the up/down nature of gas prices. I wouldn't done so if I had to pay a heavy premium. For my inner Dave Ramsey, it has to make financial sense.

 

[TomT]

+1

OK I see. Each to his own, a car isn't a lifestyle choice for me. I'm interested in the LEAF from a technical point of view as a geek and the desire to have a vehicle that isn't affected by the up/down nature of gas prices. I wouldn't done so if I had to pay a heavy premium. For my inner Dave Ramsey, it has to make financial sense.

 

[evnow]

OK I see. Each to his own, a car isn't a lifestyle choice for me. I'm interested in the LEAF from a technical point of view as a geek and the desire to have a vehicle that isn't affected by the up/down nature of gas prices. I wouldn't done so if I had to pay a heavy premium. For my inner Dave Ramsey, it has to make financial sense.

Had to look up who Ramsey is :lol:

Most people pick a particular amount they are willing to spend on a car (or house or TV) and get the "best" they can for that money. I was willing to spend a little more on EVs, so Leaf was good for me. I'd have also paid more to get S if it wasn't so big. :x

 

[HIOJim]

OK I see. Each to his own, a car isn't a lifestyle choice for me. I'm interested in the LEAF from a technical point of view as a geek and the desire to have a vehicle that isn't affected by the up/down nature of gas prices. I wouldn't done so if I had to pay a heavy premium. For my inner Dave Ramsey, it has to make financial sense.

Had to look up who Ramsey is :lol:

Most people pick a particular amount they are willing to spend on a car (or house or TV) and get the vest they can for that money. I was willing to spend a little more on EVs, so Leaf was good for me. I'd have also paid more to get S if it wasn't so big. :x

When people criticize the cars I drive, I always say "Hey, get the car that makes you smile". I had a Prius for almost 6 years and every time I drove it, I smiled. I loved the tech, especially after I installed the 'EV Switch' mod.

It's the same way with the Leaf. This car just makes me happy when I drive it. In that respect, it's worth what I paid for it, and yeah, there was an upper limit on what I could afford. That's why I don't have a Tesla Roadster.

 

[LEAFfan]

When is the last time you had a car battery last 5 years in Phoenix?

A lead-acid? Never. A person would be VERY lucky if one lasted three years here. I've had the Duralast Gold (3 year free replacement) and zero out of 7 has lasted three years. It will be interesting to see if the aux battery lasts 3 years here. It may since it doesn't have the load an ICE does. Right now, the voltage is 12.5 just sitting.

 

[evnow]

Back on topic, I think Leaf's in NW (WA, OR) would last the longest. We rarely have extreme temperatures. There is no known effect of constant drizzle on batteries :lol:

 

[Herm]

Yeah but you guys get a lot of vampires up there..

 

[evnow]

Yeah but you guys get a lot of vampires up there..

Oh yes - just like the hobbits of New Zealand ;-)

 

[surfingslovak]

Does this help?

"Every time I've watched my car charge, the charge terminates at 394V or 394.5V "100%"
(ie 4.10v/cell) even though RAhC has only hit 280 max.. Once I saw it climb to 281 but then while still charging reset back to 280.. Incidentally, "80%" is only 4.05v/cell."

Yes, thank you! We concluded in another thread that 80% charge likely correlated with 4.1V cell voltage. Based on that and the numbers from the Tesla forum, I assumed that charging to full corresponded to 4.15V per cell. I believe that Tesla calls this the "range mode". The recommended charging protocol is called "standard mode", which translates to 4.10V per cell and is likely equivalent to our 80% charge.

The numbers you quoted are quite close, which is great. However, the 50mV delta in cell voltage could represent as much as 10% SOC difference. That's still quite a lot, but we are getting somewhere.

 

[surfingslovak]

If I lived in Phoenix, I would want to keep the Leaf under shade at all times. Perhaps this where they came up with the 5 year life?

Nice report Herm! The spec of the EV they used looked very similar to the Leaf.

I think that Mark Perry, Nissan's spokesperson, was addressing concerns voiced by Top Gear's battery expert. He claimed that Leaf's pack will last 10 years at best, but possibly 5.

I have never heard 5 years being considered as pack EOL until now, after Top Gear aired their report. Would it be conceivable that Nissan does not have any official numbers for 5 years worth of battery use? Did Mark simply use the numbers from their widely publicized 8-year simulation to say that the battery will still be usable, it will just have less capacity?

I believe that most of us will see 12 bars after a full charge for a while. The capacity fade will be hardly noticeable, only 2-3 miles per year, but after three years or so, the top bar won't light up anymore. What do you think?

 

[Herm]

What do you think?

I think Nissan knows the answer to all this..

 

[Essiemme]

I've been reading this topic and would like to ask the following:

For the very first owners / pioneers, do you feel any real degradation, I mean, do you feel now that the car is doing less miles using the same charge procedures ?

Sorry if this has been asked already, I've been away and my searches didn't find a direct answer for this question.

Thank you, guys.

 

[JPWhite]

I've been reading this topic and would like to ask the following:

For the very first owners / pioneers, do you feel any real degradation, I mean, do you feel now that the car is doing less miles using the same charge procedures ?

Sorry if this has been asked already, I've been away and my searches didn't find a direct answer for this question.

Thank you, guys.

Too early to say IMHO.

 

[JPWhite]

What do you think?

I think Nissan knows the answer to all this..

I certainly think they know more than they are wiling to reveal. Maybe not the answer, but more than we are lead to believe for sure.

Nissan IMHO will play their cards close to their chests. With the CVT transmission, which was a bold move on their part, resulted in high out-of-warranty repair costs. In order to prevent tarnishing their reputation, Nissan retroactively warranted the transmissions and re-imbursed inconvenienced customers.

They won' t make a commitment similar to GM, but will keep their options open. Since they responded to the CVT issues favorably, I believe they will help their electric car customers should their future sales be jeopardized by justifiable bad press regarding battery life/replacement costs.

 

[EVDRIVER]

If I lived in Phoenix, I would want to keep the Leaf under shade at all times. Perhaps this where they came up with the 5 year life?

Nice report Herm! The spec of the EV they used looked very similar to the Leaf.

I think that Mark Perry, Nissan's spokesperson, was addressing concerns voiced by Top Gear's battery expert. He claimed that Leaf's pack will last 10 years at best, but possibly 5.

I have never heard 5 years being considered as pack EOL until now, after Top Gear aired their report. Would it be conceivable that Nissan does not have any official numbers for 5 years worth of battery use? Did Mark simply use the numbers from their widely publicized 8-year simulation to say that the battery will still be usable, it will just have less capacity?

I believe that most of us will see 12 bars after a full charge for a while. The capacity fade will be hardly noticeable, only 2-3 miles per year, but after three years or so, the top bar won't light up anymore. What do you think?

I have yet to trust any projected battery claims nor would I trust what Mark Perry says since he is a bit of a spin doctor. There is a reason Nissan give absolutely no capacity warranty, the reason for that vagueness was no mistake. Only time and user reports will reveal this.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For the very first owners / pioneers, do you feel any real degradation, I mean, do you feel now that the car is doing less miles using the same charge procedures ?

6000 miles, but no quick charges ever. No measurable loss of battery.

I wonder if those of us with SOC meters will be able to see values less than 281 as the batteries lose their capacity?