Nissan LEAF and Chevy Volt Target Different Drivers

[evnow]

While tea and softdrinks may "compete" I will tell you when I want a coke, I don't even consider tea (I don't think I have drunk tea in years).

They are substitute products and thus compete.

 

[TRONZ]

Or worse. One is a wedge product being marketed as an EV that goes further.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

While tea and softdrinks may "compete" I will tell you when I want a coke, I don't even consider tea (I don't think I have drunk tea in years).

i can parade a very long line of people in front of you that will say the exact same thing. just substitute SUV for Coke and Prius for tea or pickup for Coke and Leaf for Tea...

facts is; the analogy was good. the strength of conviction when choosing a car is just as strong as your distaste for tea

 

[planet4ever]

I was totally on board the Volt train in the fall and winter of 2009/2010. Shucks, I seriously considered flying from California to New York just to have an early test drive opportunity. I put down my $99 on the LEAF in April 2010 only as an unlikely "Plan B" backup. I really liked the idea of two cars in one body, and knew that most days I drove less than 30 miles, so expected that the Volt would be mostly electric for me. I still believe that would have been true.

Back then I was excited about the serial drive train, and believed that it would get better mileage than the Prius in charge sustaining mode. And I expected the Volt price to come in not much over $30K. But when the price and the EV range and the hybrid efficiency and the premium gas all became clear in the summer of 2010 I soured rather quickly on the Volt, and started thinking more seriously about my backup plan. Actually sitting in a Volt cemented my change of heart. The cockpit felt cramped and cluttered, and the car was so low I had trouble getting into and out of it.

You might be right about different drivers. I don't think the Volt is targeted at overweight seniors with scotch blood.

Ray

 

[mxp]

well i for one, had full intentions of buying a Volt to compliment my Leaf. i wanted a bit more EV range than the Prius plug in and the Volt was originally set to sell for "nicely under $30,000 after incentives" (yes, that is direct quote read from billboards on display when i did the Volt test drive.

well, the price did not happen. i would have gladly traded some of the bling for a lower price which is exactly what i did when i purchased the Leaf.

as it stands now, i will hold onto my Prius until something does come along to cover my needs. i would prefer to be all electric except for an occasional trip out of town. i just dont want to pay $36,000 for it

Similarly, I had full intentions of buying a Volt... I joined the Volt forum waay back in July 2008. I had a "reservation" number on the forum something like No: 241, and even though it was an "unofficial" forum, GM did not even bother about the early adopters on the forum offering to promote the adoption of the Volt. In the end, that number was just useless. GM is just all greed... real greed.

Anyways, back to reality:
1) The main issue for me was the 2 seater rear seating. That will not work for my family.
2) The price was somewhat an issue- somewhat over-priced, but their distribution method allowing further dealer mark-up$ killed it for me.

So, if the price was close to parity with the Leaf, and if the rear seats 3 passengers; I personally would have picked the Volt.

 

[Nekota]

The LEAF is for those that can accept a range limitation and gain a less complicated vehicle without the need for an extra motor and a system to coordinate the performance of the two engines. The Volt is for those who do not want a range limitation and are unaware of the non trivial control system. As the experience grows with these vehicles, I expect the vehicle with the fewest parts to gradually become more desirable and accepted into fulfilling mainstream transportation needs.

After 6 months with the LEAF, I am drawing a parallel to other technological epochs. When HP introduced the scientific calculator the slide rule became a curiosity. When the microprocessor was placed into a home computer it was only a matter of time before other centralized computing devices were displaced. When the internet was introduced as a communication medium, information became very open and accessible. And the compact disc replaced the vinyl record followed by DVD and BluRay. I am getting the same feeling for the battery electric car as a major transformation comparable to these epochs in technology.

 

[tps]

I joined the Volt forum waay back in July 2008. I had a "reservation" number on the forum something like No: 241, and even though it was an "unofficial" forum, GM did not even bother about the early adopters on the forum offering to promote the adoption of the Volt. In the end, that number was just useless.

I'm not really expecting my official 2010 LEAF reservation to buy me much, maybe a few days, when Nissan opens Tier 4 ordering. Basically holding my (and others) $99 for over a year benefitted Nissan's marketing studies, but not much else.

For me, the Volt is not so attractive. I'll be right at the edge of it's electric range, which means I would probably use a few miles of gas almost every day. However this puts me very comfortably within the LEAF's range. I seldom travel outside the LEAF's range, so it will be perfect for me. (Once I get it. Going to the gas station every couple weeks while I continue to wait to order is getting old.)

 

[mxp]

I joined the Volt forum waay back in July 2008. I had a "reservation" number on the forum something like No: 241, and even though it was an "unofficial" forum, GM did not even bother about the early adopters on the forum offering to promote the adoption of the Volt. In the end, that number was just useless.

I'm not really expecting my official 2010 LEAF reservation to buy me much, maybe a few days, when Nissan opens Tier 4 ordering. Basically holding my (and others) $99 for over a year benefitted Nissan's marketing studies, but not much else.

For me, the Volt is not so attractive. I'll be right at the edge of it's electric range, which means I would probably use a few miles of gas almost every day. However this puts me very comfortably within the LEAF's range. I seldom travel outside the LEAF's range, so it will be perfect for me. (Once I get it. Going to the gas station every couple weeks while I continue to wait to order is getting old.)

Assuming if the Volt was available to you at MSRP, and no dealer markup$, would you still consider it over the Leaf?

In colder weather states, that engine in the Volt will become extremely useful for a lot of scenarios.

I would definitely do more Leaf test drives whilst you still can, in cold weather conditions. The weather transition here in California definitely changes the practical use of the car. I am definitely learning to deal with it, but it will be quite a surprise for the unassuming.

 

[cdaveb]

The Leaf was perfect for me as I don't really need extended range and environmental factors have been part of my car purchase decisions for years (this being my 3rd electric). My husband for many years was more focused on convenience and features and size of car (he always wanted a big car with room to haul lots of stuff) and had far too many range anxiety issues to buy a pure EV at current battery sizes.

However the Volt turned out to be perfect for him as he no longer had so many concerns about space and the lack of modern features cleared up (both the Leaf and Volt have most of the handy toys that previous cars like the RAV4 EV have lacked). He still has too much range anxiety to drive a pure EV as his primary vehicle, but he's very obsessive about avoiding using any more gas than he has to with his Volt, to the point where if he comes home from work with his charge used up and needs to go out for an errand he takes my Leaf.

I'd say we're both early adopters, but for the driver with more range anxiety, the Volt provides the bridge that allows them to get past their fears and embrace their environmental side whereas the Leaf appeals to those of us who either have less reason for range anxiety or are more willing to make adjustments for our environmental sides. The cars definitely compete, but they do appeal to different drivers. It would be interesting if the costs were closer together so financial concerns would be less of a factor, but both cars are doing a lot to move people towards more environmental choices.

I do think long term that the plugin hybrid is where most of the market will gravitate to. Barring major advances in battery technology, there's just a much smaller market of people who can deal with the limited range than there are people who need to assauge their range anxiety. But there's a lot of room in the market for both kinds, and it'll be interesting to see what happens as we start getting more variety of choice.

 

[evnow]

I do think long term that the plugin hybrid is where most of the market will gravitate to. Barring major advances in battery technology, there's just a much smaller market of people who can deal with the limited range than there are people who need to assauge their range anxiety. But there's a lot of room in the market for both kinds, and it'll be interesting to see what happens as we start getting more variety of choice.

Thats what I used to think too. The idea was since batteries are expensive, have PHEVs that are cheaper and thus more accessible to th public. Volt proved that idea wrong - by pricing Volt nearly $10k more than Leaf. Now even PIP costs more than Leaf, after tax credit.

So, I think it is safer to say that
- If BEV & PHEV are priced the same, PHEV will be more attractive to J6P
- As BEV's range increases PHEVs get less attractive

For eg. I think
- If Ford Focus Electric and C-Max Energi are priced the same, Energi will have greater demand
- In some distant future, a $30K, 300 mile range BEV will be as attractive as a $30K PHEV with 50 mile EV range

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

we only need to do with the rest of the world is doing right now to change all that. if you have any questions about what I am referring to go fill up your tank in france or germany or england but again big oil still controls what we do so I was in a small pocket of early adopters such as ourselves there'll always be a question as to what is quote unquote right for us