Nissan LEAF - It IS the car for me!

[Coffee_Slurry]

I'm hoping ALL the real-time values are available on the ODB2/CAN bus connector.

Instant watt draw, SOC, averages..
There should be a geek treasure chest of information in there.

 

[LEAFfan]

The picture showing 67mph is from the freeway stretch during the first run. That and the Energy Usage screen shot are from within seconds of each other.

So the usage (3.8 or 4.6 m/kwh) are instant and not trip numbers ?

Seems to say average on the display. A real time number would be extremely revealing, even if averaged every minute.

Yeah, the average number is on the left and the 'instant' graph is on the right. I'm wondering if there is a digital readout for the instant graph?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm hoping ALL the real-time values are available on the ODB2/CAN bus connector.

Instant watt draw, SOC, averages..
There should be a geek treasure chest of information in there.

That data is there, it starts with the current and voltage measurements used to get the RT KW consumption and calculated from there.

 

[kmp647]

Thanks for all the great info and pictures

here is my commute info see what you think.....

I have a 29 mile ride to work 20 of which is on freeways (70mph) (65mph posted)
the rest at 45mph.
my route home is on back roads at 45 to 50 and is 31 miles.

so 61 miles total with the early morning run high speed.
afternoon commute easier.

i will be able to trickle during work if needed.

I have been concerned but am now more confident the Leaf will work for me


what do you think?

thanks in advance
Kevin
northern Va

 

[mwalsh]

Thanks for all the great info and pictures

here is my commute info see what you think.....
i will be able to trickle during work if needed.
I have been concerned but am now more confident the Leaf will work for me

First let me say that I am very pleased if I've been able to be a part in increasing your confidence. It sort of was my stepping off point for trying to get this invitation in the first place. Because I was in the same position...would the LEAF work for my 60 mile commute? What would my fallback be if I bought the car and it didn't (opportunity charging at work, etc....)? Should I forget it altogether right now and wait for the technology to mature?

I would say that the freeway speed part of your run would average the same as we did - mid 3 to mid 4 miles per kWh. Your back roads....well we've got anecdotal evidence that at speeds of 40-50mph you'll probably average ~5 miles per kWh.

Now in all this talk about kWh use. I haven't really qualified that our ambient temperatures for this visit were in the mid-70s (though also quite humid). Neither have I mentioned that we were running with the lights and wipers on quite a bit (particularly on my half of the freeway run). I didn't do that because I know these accessories are supposed to run on the 12v battery and didn't know if they would make any difference to the pack charge during a run where the 12v probably had a good part of it's own charge.

It remains to be seen what kind of usage we'll get when it's colder or hotter; or if one needs to use AC or heat in a mode that draws more power; or how much more power is drawn from the pack once the 12v battery becomes depleted. As we find these things out, we'll have to adjust our expectations.

In closing, I'm guessing the LEAF will be just fine for you and I. Will we have to play with it under some circumstances, particularly after a few years and some pack degradation? Yes, I dare say. But my gut feeling is that I don't see these things being necessary for either of us for a good long while.

 

[Frank]

Neither have I mentioned that we were running with the lights and wipers on quite a bit (particularly on my half of the freeway run). I didn't do that because I know these accessories are supposed to run on the 12v battery and didn't know if they would make any difference to the pack charge during a run where the 12v probably had a good part of it's own charge.

What you said about the lights and the 12v lead/acid battery reminded me of something that I observed at the test drive event. My test drive was in the morning and it was quite dark because of the weather. I was checking out the LED low beams and switching the high/low beams off and on and the same thing with the fog lights to see how much illumination the lights provided. This was on the parked Leaf at the event. While switching the headlamps between high/low/off I noticed the kW usage meter changing on the screen. I'm referring to the "Other Systems" meter as shown in the great photos you posted. That makes me wonder if the lights are being powered directly from the 12v battery, and if the Other Systems meter is only measuring the 12v battery usage? Also, how does the solar panel affect this meter? By the way, the LED low beams (high are not LEDs) seem pretty bright. Did you get a chance to see the low beam LEDs in a dark environment like a parking garage? Thanks for the great review you posted.

 

[kmp647]

Did you find out when the cold weather package would be available for ordering

my order month is december and i am hoping to add the package to my car

 

[mwalsh]

Did you find out when the cold weather package would be available for ordering

my order month is december and i am hoping to add the package to my car

Mark Perry wouldn't say. Nor would he commit to any pricing. The only thing I learned new is that the cold weather package will including some kind of thermal blanketing to protect the battery pack.

 

[mwalsh]

Something else about the 0-60....you knew already that our ~10 second runs were with the traction control on? Well, I also realized that both Dan and I were in the car, so that's an extra 200lbs of weight over a solo driver (we're both big fellas - I'm slightly pudgy and Dan is quite tall), AND we had the AC on!

Now I'm not saying these additional factors would make 3 seconds worth of difference, and I've already called John O'Dell "mistaken" over his supposed 7 second run, but it might get us closer to a good solid 9!

 

[mwalsh]

Oh, something else I just remembered about....6.6kW charging.....I asked Mark about it and he said it's still under consideration.

One of the nuggets I did get out of him is that if CHAdeMO didn't turn out to be the connector of choice for L3, it really would be only the socket on cars fitted with the DC Fast Charge option that would need changing. But no word if they'd change them out for free. However, with the 400 L3 chargers going into 6 states, Mark is kinda expecting that CHAdeMO will end up being the connector by default, because it's already in widespread use.

 

[SanDust]

Now I'm not saying these additional factors would make 3 seconds worth of difference, and I've already called Dan Niel "mistaken" over his supposed 7 second run, but it might get us closer to a good solid 9!

Dan Neil said the Leaf had "0-60 mph acceleration of around 10 seconds", which may just represent what Nissan told him. I don't think he did a timed run. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703959704575453710456516180.html Did he do another review which I haven't seen?

In any event an additional 200 pounds wouldn't make that much a a difference. F=ma so for a given F additions or subtractions to mass has a strictly linear effect on acceleration. IOW subtracting 200 pounds from a vehicle weight 4000 pounds would only make a 5% difference in the acceleration.

 

[LEAFer]

Mike, thanks for all the updates. Very helpful.

Oh, something else I just remembered about....6.6kW charging.....I asked Mark about it and he said it's still under consideration.

More specifics ? Under consideration for what ? Upgrade existing 3.3 car ? Only on new cars ? 2012 ? etc ...

One of the nuggets I did get out of him is that if CHAdeMO didn't turn out to be the connector of choice for L3, it really would be only the socket on cars fitted with the DC Fast Charge option that would need changing. But no word if they'd change them out for free. However, with the 400 L3 chargers going into 6 states, Mark is kinda expecting that CHAdeMO will end up being the connector by default, because it's already in widespread use.

Great ! They "get it"

 

[lne937s]

Now I'm not saying these additional factors would make 3 seconds worth of difference, and I've already called Dan Niel "mistaken" over his supposed 7 second run, but it might get us closer to a good solid 9!

Dan Neil said the Leaf had "0-60 mph acceleration of around 10 seconds", which may just represent what Nissan told him. I don't think he did a timed run. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703959704575453710456516180.html Did he do another review which I haven't seen?

In any event an additional 200 pounds wouldn't make that much a a difference. F=ma so for a given F additions or subtractions to mass has a strictly linear effect on acceleration. IOW subtracting 200 pounds from a vehicle weight 4000 pounds would only make a 5% difference in the acceleration.

5% of 10 seconds is half a second, making it 9.5. If the traction control is programmed to not allow any wheel spin, you could easily get another half second with a good launch, putting it in the high 8 second range.

 

[mwalsh]

Dan Neil said the Leaf had "0-60 mph acceleration of around 10 seconds", which may just represent what Nissan told him. I don't think he did a timed run.

My apologies to Dan Neil...it was John O'Dell from Edmunds:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/10/2011-nissan-leaf-ev-second-drive-shows-first-impression-wasnt-wrong.html

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

If EV Project really installs 60 DC stations with CHAdeMO in San Diego alone, any other standard is going to be DOA.

Once the quick charge stations are out an in-use, who is going to want to set up a parallel SAE charging network? Who would pay for it, if DOE already blew their cash on the CHAdeMO rigs?

Instead, people would be converting their Ford/whatever DC plugs to CHAdeMO to get connected. Same thing that will happen when J1772 is rolled out. Tesla is already talking about port conversions.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Now I'm not saying these additional factors would make 3 seconds worth of difference, and I've already called Dan Niel "mistaken" over his supposed 7 second run, but it might get us closer to a good solid 9!

Dan Neil said the Leaf had "0-60 mph acceleration of around 10 seconds", which may just represent what Nissan told him. I don't think he did a timed run. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703959704575453710456516180.html Did he do another review which I haven't seen?

In any event an additional 200 pounds wouldn't make that much a a difference. F=ma so for a given F additions or subtractions to mass has a strictly linear effect on acceleration. IOW subtracting 200 pounds from a vehicle weight 4000 pounds would only make a 5% difference in the acceleration.

5% of 10 seconds is half a second, making it 9.5. If the traction control is programmed to not allow any wheel spin, you could easily get another half second with a good launch, putting it in the high 8 second range.

Don't forget the AC was on. Turning it off might give you that other second. :?:

 

[mwalsh]

It's sort of sounding like Nissan needs to invite me back again. :lol: Or maybe I'll just do the next test in my own car.

 

[stanley]

mwalsh, What criteria did Nissan use in inviting you?

 

[mitch672]

If EV Project really installs 60 DC stations with CHAdeMO in San Diego alone, any other standard is going to be DOA.

Once the quick charge stations are out an in-use, who is going to want to set up a parallel SAE charging network? Who would pay for it, if DOE already blew their cash on the CHAdeMO rigs?

Instead, people would be converting their Ford/whatever DC plugs to CHAdeMO to get connected. Same thing that will happen when J1772 is rolled out. Tesla is already talking about port conversions.

I don't think the SAE gives 2 S***S about what is already installed. L3 Chademo will only be in the Western US, in 4 or so states + TN. There will still be a large portion of the country with NO Chademo L3 chargers (Read: 45 other states). The L3 connector could easily be different, and I would count on that happening, just because of the "NIH" factor (Not Invented Here). Also, don't count on anyone changing out the infrastructure in those early roll out states, they will probably always be Chademo, and the rest of the country could be different. there will likely be M-F adapters to go between the 2 standards.. Hopefully, they will agree on the "communications protocol" used, because that can't be changed with adapters.

 

[mwalsh]

mwalsh, What criteria did Nissan use in inviting you?

I just started bugging people until they cried "Uncle!" :lol: