Nissan's Included L1 (120v) EVSE
- Thread starter garygid
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DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
how much is an extra cord from Nissan?
i had planned on getting a 25' ext cord for "around town" and leave the Nissan cord in the garage but i will adjust if the price is reasonable (i kinda sorta think i already know where i am going thou)
i had planned on getting a 25' ext cord for "around town" and leave the Nissan cord in the garage but i will adjust if the price is reasonable (i kinda sorta think i already know where i am going thou)
smkettner
Well-known member
trentr said:
#12 is fine to at least 100'. Save some copper and skip the heavy #10 cord.
johnr
Well-known member
With #12 wire it would take 3.3% longer time to charge. If it takes 20 hours for a full charge then it would take an extra 40 minutes using a 100 ft. #12 extension cord, due to the voltage drop. Not that big a difference, but worth noting IMHO. Also consider that the charger still pulls 12 amps - this 3.3% is wasted energy that only goes toward heating the cord. Using #10 wire reduces the voltage drop to 2%. There's a handy calculator for this here: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htmsmkettner said:
BTW, don't even THINK of using any extension cord smaller than #12 gauge - regardless of the length - as you may exceed the conductor's ampacity rating and start a fire! Many extension cords use #14 wire - avoid them! (#14 wire cannot carry more than 15 amps, which could be exceeded when you consider derating and voltage drop.)
smkettner
Well-known member
A modern switching power supply charger really should give full output down to about 105 volts.
The charger should be pulling more amps to make up for the voltage drop.
Although you may well be right.
The charger should be pulling more amps to make up for the voltage drop.
Although you may well be right.
garygid
Well-known member
The "max-current" advice that the EVSE sends to the car is a CURRENT limit that the car should obey, primarily to keep from tripping a breaker, which terminates your charging (until detected and corrected).
The J1772-complient charger in the car not allowed to "draw more current" if the input voltage is low. That's why it is called the "MAXIMUM-current" setting in the EVSE. Of course, the charger in the car may draw less current, whenever it wants/needs to do so.
The J1772-complient charger in the car not allowed to "draw more current" if the input voltage is low. That's why it is called the "MAXIMUM-current" setting in the EVSE. Of course, the charger in the car may draw less current, whenever it wants/needs to do so.
planet4ever
Well-known member
Thanks for setting that straight, Gary. And for anyone wandering through here who doesn't have an EE (hey, that's me!) and might get their electrical concepts confused at times, power is measured in watts, current is measured in amps, and current times electrical pressure (volts) is power. So, yes, voltage drop in the extension cord will mean less power going into the battery.
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
trentr said:
I can see a couple advantages to having a dedicated 120v outlet within <length of Nissan L1 cable> feet of where you usually park rather than using an extension cord: If you only needed a few extra feet, you wouldn't be tacking on a full 25' more for more voltage drop. I've always suspected you loose more at the plugs than in the wire... note that the plugs/receptacles on the extension cords get warm, not so much the wire. So another outlet eliminates another plug, or at least uses junctions with wire nuts.
charlie1300
Well-known member
LTLFTcomposite said:
I'm planning to use L1 charging only, and if I didn't have a 120v outlet within the L1 EVSE cable length, I would definitely install one. So many downsides to extension cords for a heavy duty application in a garage: trip hazard, connection from extension to EVSE cable getting wet, extension cord damage/failure, added KW costs due to loss in extension cable. Think about connecting up every day for eight years. You want a simple, neat, hazard free process. I'm going to attach a plastic garden hose hanger next to the outlet to keep the L1 cable organized and off the floor when not in use, and to keep any strain off the plug into the outlet.
muus
Well-known member
I'm anxious to read the post from the first user who tries to plug the included L1 EVSE into a 240V plug, using a home-made adapter. In theory it should work since it would draw the same 12A but at 240v (as long as the internal transformer for the pilot signal is capable of running on 240V). That would net you a charge of 2880 watts or 87% of what any 240V EVSE would be able to deliver (since the on-board charger is limited to 3300 watts). If it works, I will definitely purchase a second L1 EVSE and forget about getting a 240V EVSE. Since I’m in Canada, I’m sure this will have been tried before I can order the Leaf here.
garygid
Well-known member
CAUTION, WARNING, DANGER:
BEFORE blindly plugging the L1 EVSE into 240v, doing some explorative surgery and examining the "guts" would seem to be a very wise precautionary measure.
Possibly there would be an "appendix" to remove, or an organ transplant required before 240v operation would be "safer" to try.
But, basically, you are correct, and I have the same curiosity.
If they are hanging in the cargo area of all of these "production" LEAFs, they must be "available" to Nissan in Japan. Perhaps somebody with a contact there can get one BEFORE December?
Lance, are you using yours?
If somebody obtains one and sends it to me to "examine", I will be happy to help.
BEFORE blindly plugging the L1 EVSE into 240v, doing some explorative surgery and examining the "guts" would seem to be a very wise precautionary measure.
Possibly there would be an "appendix" to remove, or an organ transplant required before 240v operation would be "safer" to try.
But, basically, you are correct, and I have the same curiosity.
If they are hanging in the cargo area of all of these "production" LEAFs, they must be "available" to Nissan in Japan. Perhaps somebody with a contact there can get one BEFORE December?
Lance, are you using yours?
If somebody obtains one and sends it to me to "examine", I will be happy to help.
DarkStar
Well-known member
Boy, I might be willing to install my own PSU just for the pilot signal in order to plug it into 240v. If the EVSE that is included is just secured with screws, you can bet I'll be opening it up and getting a bunch of pictures. Otherwise I'll be waiting to purchase a second one to do exploratory surgery on...muus said:
garygid
Well-known member
The L1 EVSE is supposed to be "waterproof" (including the two cable-exit points), allowing outdoor operation from an outdoor 120v plug.
So, probably "sealed" with something other than screws. Quite possibly tested and then glued together, with "no user-servicable" parts inside.
The L1 EVSE already generates a "Control Pilot" signal (to tell the vehicle "12-amps max", we believe.
It could easily be a varient of the "included" 220/240v EVSE "included" in UK/Euro LEAFs.
Oh, yes, we want to give one of those a thorough "physical" as well.
Who can get us one of those?
So, probably "sealed" with something other than screws. Quite possibly tested and then glued together, with "no user-servicable" parts inside.
The L1 EVSE already generates a "Control Pilot" signal (to tell the vehicle "12-amps max", we believe.
It could easily be a varient of the "included" 220/240v EVSE "included" in UK/Euro LEAFs.
Oh, yes, we want to give one of those a thorough "physical" as well.
Who can get us one of those?
EVDRIVER
Well-known member
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DarkStar said:
The relay contacts may not be rated at the same amperage at 240V. What about the GFI circuit? The power supply is the least of the concerns. I will likely slit mine open and just make the modifications need to work on 120/240, even if it means gutting the unusable parts and just making an appropriate pilot signal and some adaptors. I don't see this as being a big deal at all.
garygid
Well-known member
I should have a chance to examine one closely at the Anahein Test-Drive on Friday morning. I will look for "assembly" features.
mitch672
Well-known member
Please remember the Uk/Euro model is designed for ONE leg of 230V, where the US/Canadian model is designed for ONE leg of 120V... the US Verison has a Neutral and a Ground, the UK verison only has a ground. Without auto ranging, it might just go *poof*
They are vastly different in the wiring, and I suspect not all that compatible. If this was workable, then the Japanese/Euro version would work here, and I suspect it won't, without steping up the US voltage to 230V @ High Current (13AMP minimum)
They are vastly different in the wiring, and I suspect not all that compatible. If this was workable, then the Japanese/Euro version would work here, and I suspect it won't, without steping up the US voltage to 230V @ High Current (13AMP minimum)
garygid
Well-known member
Our 120v N+Hot (and Ground) and our 240v Hot+Hot (and ground) should be fine. Here, Neutral is not Ground, and the Ground goes through the EVSE to the car chassis. Neither the H+N nor H+H leads should be connected to Ground, either in the EVSE or in the EV.
In Europe, they also have either H+N (and ground), or H+H (and ground), so there should be no problem sending the supply wires through the wires and relay to the EV, I believe. And, ground should be Ground ... (unless they do not have "Ground??).
The GFI should be a current sensor, independent of voltage, with higher (than our wall-socket GFIs) allowed current before "tripping".
Getting +/-12v DC (and possibly +5v DC) to power the "guts" will be the main concern. If the EVSE uses a small "universal input" (50/60 Hz, 90-260v) power supply (like some of the popular, inexpensive, UL, small "wall wart" chargers), that is great.
There could be "noise" or "power spike" limiting components that could be specific for 120 and not 240v AC.
In Europe, they also have either H+N (and ground), or H+H (and ground), so there should be no problem sending the supply wires through the wires and relay to the EV, I believe. And, ground should be Ground ... (unless they do not have "Ground??).
The GFI should be a current sensor, independent of voltage, with higher (than our wall-socket GFIs) allowed current before "tripping".
Getting +/-12v DC (and possibly +5v DC) to power the "guts" will be the main concern. If the EVSE uses a small "universal input" (50/60 Hz, 90-260v) power supply (like some of the popular, inexpensive, UL, small "wall wart" chargers), that is great.
There could be "noise" or "power spike" limiting components that could be specific for 120 and not 240v AC.
garygid
Well-known member
Chances are that the UK EVSE will use the 3-prong (rectangular pins) of the G-type "13-amp" plug often found there. In normal use there, this plug contains a fuse, rated for the appliance being powered.
The Euro plug might be the grounded F-type plug, sometimes two round "Hot" pins, and a Ground (Earth) connection on the edge.
I believe that a "safety" ground will be "required" there on their EVSEs, just as it is "required" here.
Thus, the UK and Euro versions of the EVSE will most likely have different plugs, but be basically "the same" in internal construction.
The Euro plug might be the grounded F-type plug, sometimes two round "Hot" pins, and a Ground (Earth) connection on the edge.
I believe that a "safety" ground will be "required" there on their EVSEs, just as it is "required" here.
Thus, the UK and Euro versions of the EVSE will most likely have different plugs, but be basically "the same" in internal construction.
Rat
Well-known member
As an L1 only user, I am surprised to read that 12A is the expected maximum current. Why? Or if so, why did the AeroVironment electrician (and several posts on this forum, I believe) indicate that L1 charging requires a 30A GFI plug? If you have a 30A plug, then you should be able to safely draw more than 12A continuously, and I would like to do exactly that. Explanation please.
