NY Times: "How to Charge Millions of Electric Cars?"

[dgpcolorado]

Discussion of policies that would be needed to accommodate "millions" of electric cars charging:

How to Charge Millions of Electric Cars? Not All at Once

PROPONENTS of electric vehicles like to talk about a not-too-distant future when plug-in cars become ubiquitous, with millions being driven by their owners on the daily commute.

Now imagine the end of a workday in that not-too-distant future, when many of those millions of cars are back in their owners’ driveways or garages, plugged in for battery recharging, all at roughly the same time...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/business/energy-environment/preparing-for-the-power-demands-of-an-electric-car-boom.html?smid=pl-share" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can only hope that we do have this problem to solve someday. Beats continuing to rely on oil. The idea of using charging load to balance the grid is intriguing.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The effect of such a power drain on the electrical grid could be enormous; the overloading of transformers and other infrastructure could lead to local brownouts or worse.

As an experiment I tried turning on two cooktop elements at once, roughly the equivalent of the Leaf's 3.3 charger. To my amazement, FPL seemed to handle it just fine.

 

[Smidge204]

Every time I read some kind of article like this, I substitute EVs for Air Conditioners: "How to run a million air conditioners?"

There isn't going to be some kind of watershed moment where a million EVs will appear on the streets overnight. They will appear in drips and drabs over many years, just like people buying and using air conditioners or other major appliances. Utility companies, if they deserve to be in the business at all, will see the increasing demands and make the necessary investments in infrastructure and incentive structures to serve their customers. GOOD utilities companies will be a step ahead and be planning and acting now.
=Smidge=

 

[mirko]

How many millions of +1800w Hair dryers and flat irons are all turned on at the same time every weekday morning!?

 

[smkettner]

Will be handled same as the major expansion in the use of air conditioning after WW2.
You would think we are better equipped today than we were in the 1950s but some cannot get their mind around that.
Just as Rome was not built in a day. 1,000,000 EVs will not be built in a day either.

 

[sproqitman]

Utilities have plenty of leftover generating capacity in the early morning hours. Looking at the following chart from the California ISO, I count at least 20 GwH of spare capacity between midnight and 6 AM, just in California. 20 GwH is enough to refuel 2 million EVs.

 

[edatoakrun]

Will be handled same as the major expansion in the use of air conditioning after WW2....

I certainly hope not.

The introduction of AC to America's electric grid greatly imbalanced the daily electricity demand curve nationwide.

The high cost of building peak demand electric generation and transmission infrastructure for AC was imposed on those who did not use AC, effectively subsidizing not only the AC industry, but the entire Sun Belt economic boom.

And now the global heating that AC has made a significant contribution to, will invariably require a very expensive relocation of population from America's Sun Belt to cooler regions, in the not so distant future.

Hopefully, rational kWh pricing with Time-Of-Use metering will prevent a recurrence of the fiasco AC caused for our electric grid.

 

[johnqh]

The peak usage of AC can be balanced by solar energy, by both home and business owners and utility companies.

The charged by millions of EV's can be easily managed by electricity schedule based on time-of-the-day.

 

[smkettner]

Are we adding EV electric demand faster than Solar supply?

 

[thankyouOB]

turns out, the article does not see any problem in managing this; rather it sees opportunity.

 

[Smidge204]

millions of flat screen TVs and ranges powered up at the end of the day.
OMG!!!

To be fair, even a large screen plasma TV only draws ~200 watts. I like to use air conditioners because a large AC unit is roughly the same power draw and it's something many, many homes and apartments have. (Unlike electric stoves and hot water heaters, for example)
=Smidge=

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If summing up challenges of charging EVs, the last line of the article really says it all

"

 

[dgpcolorado]

turns out, the article does not see any problem in managing this; rather it sees opportunity.

Thank you for pointing this out. I was a bit surprised at the knee-jerk negative reactions that missed the point.

...Hopefully, rational kWh pricing with Time-Of-Use metering will prevent a recurrence of the fiasco AC caused for our electric grid.

This is my hope as well. Since the growth in numbers of EVs will be gradual, as opposed to plopping a million on the grid tomorrow, there is plenty of time for utilities to adjust their policies and incentives to move charging to off-peak periods.


No transformer problems for me: my remote, rural, house has its own 15 kW transformer (and no AC is used here, of course). But I can see how shared transformers plus a couple of Teslas could be a problem in many neighborhoods. And I think it is a bit unfair to blame the utilities for being anti-EV while they try to come to grips with the issue.

 

[Luft]

turns out, the article does not see any problem in managing this; rather it sees opportunity.

Thank you for pointing this out. I was a bit surprised at the knee-jerk negative reactions that missed the point.

...Hopefully, rational kWh pricing with Time-Of-Use metering will prevent a recurrence of the fiasco AC caused for our electric grid.

This is my hope as well. Since the growth in numbers of EVs will be gradual, as opposed to plopping a million on the grid tomorrow, there is plenty of time for utilities to adjust their policies and incentives to move charging to off-peak periods.


No transformer problems for me: my remote, rural, house has its own 15 kW transformer (and no AC is used here, of course). But I can see how shared transformers plus a couple of Teslas could be a problem in many neighborhoods. And I think it is a bit unfair to blame the utilities for being anti-EV while they try to come to grips with the issue.

If it's unfair to blame the utilities, it's only slightly. We like to think of ourselves as the most advanced, prosperous country in the world but the truth is that our infrastructure sucks.

Why does the most powerful nation on Earth have such inferior infrastructure you ask? Broken capitalism. The never ending effort by mega rich corporate powers to maximize profits by charging more, providing less and limiting expenditures is turning our country into a third class banana republic with all the amenities.

 

[apvbguy]

The never ending effort by mega rich corporate powers to maximize profits by charging more, providing less and limiting expenditures is turning our country into a third class banana republic with all the amenities.

and all along I thought it was Bush's fault

 

[timhebb]

Even the worst-case scenario for the challenge of charging millions of EV's added to the grid will be infinitely more manageable than addressing the climate change that's going to occur if we don't (and, to be honest, will probably occur even if we do).

 

[Nubo]

Some utilities are going to need to make time of use charging a whole lot easier and attractive to use.

 

[smkettner]

Climate change has been happening long before man ruled the earth. We might be able to reverse some of the effect but mostly life needs to adapt or perish.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Climate change has been happening long before man ruled the earth. We might be able to reverse some of the effect but mostly life needs to adapt or perish.

I'm going to guess that statements precludes any belief that man has done anything to change climate. It obviously doesn't have to be one or the other.

Previously, of course, it was, "there is no global warming" to "yes, there's global warming but man has nothing to do with it", so I guess there's hope for widespread thinking change, too.

 

[smkettner]

No I said we might be able to reverse some (of man's) effect.
The point is climate has always been changing. I don't believe man can prevent the next warming or the next ice age.