Offcial Honda Fit EV Thread (lease only)

[GRA]

I've been reading lots of reviews of the Fit. Bottom line, everyone who's a car person and thinks driving qualities are as important as efficiency really likes the HFE (in Sport mode). It's just moved to the top of my personal EV list. It's still about 1-1.5' too short to meet my needs (I find something about 175-180" works), and I want a flat load floor that I can sleep on stretched out, more range, a spare tire and some kind of QC. But I've got to say, a 2nd gen. of this car would come damned close to making me give up ICEs, assuming that I find it fits me well once I can actually drive one.

FWIW, a review at Gas2 by Susanna Schick included the following info:

"Honda says you can get up to 132 miles while driving in the city, 105 miles on highway, or 82 miles on a mix of city and highway. That’s in Normal mode. Subtract 10% for (most) Sport mode drivers, and add 17% if you’re restrained enough to always drive in Econ mode, which is still MUCH more fun and powerful than the Civic Natural Gas.
Gas 2.0 (http://s.tt/1gl2F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false"

That 105 miles range on the highway, with more if in Eco, meets my minimum acceptable range requirement (110 miles on the freeway), although no speed is given and I suspect it's for 55 mph or some other impractically low speed. If I can ever find one to rent, I'll be sure to try and find out.

So there’s no misconception, Honda does not say the Fit EV will go 132 miles in the city or 105 miles on the highway. It will go those distances on a ~33.7kWh charge, the energy equivalent to a gallon of gas. But the Fit EV doesn’t have a 1 gallon equivalent battery (~33.7kWh), it has a 20kWh battery with some ~19kWh usable. Expect a modest (5-10) mile range advantage over the LEAF or Focus Electric, comparable driven.

Thanks for clearing that up, although I think you mentioned (maybe on the MHF forum), that you'd done 81 miles @ 55, with 19 showing on the DTE? Granted, I wouldn't want to routinely run it down to empty all the time, which is why I want at least 150 miles of freeway range for my most common radius out-of-town trip (100 miles + 10 mile reserve).

 

[darelldd]

I don't suppose anybody could clarify the SPX situation with the Fit, could they. The fine folks at SPX first told me "The unit will work with any EV that's out there." Then when I pointed out that the Fit has only been "out there" for a month, they back-pedaled, and are looking into it. The unit is only good for 24A. And the listed upgrade to 32A is not yet available.

Any info that folks have on this would be great!

 

[KeiJidosha]

I don't suppose anybody could clarify the SPX situation with the Fit, could they. The fine folks at SPX first told me "The unit will work with any EV that's out there." Then when I pointed out that the Fit has only been "out there" for a month, they back-pedaled, and are looking into it. The unit is only good for 24A. And the listed upgrade to 32A is not yet available.

Any info that folks have on this would be great!

Unit works with Fit EV
Compatible EVSEs
and can be set to 32 amps.

 

[darelldd]

Thanks, Kei.

Can I just say here how confused the SPX folks are?

And let me ask this another way (which I'll go do on the Fit EV form as well) - has anybody actually used the standard 24A Express on the Fit EV?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Isn't the car supposed to adapt to what the EVSE says it can provide?

The charging station can use the wave signal to describe the maximum current that is available from the charging station with the help of pulse width modulation: a 10% PWM is a 10 A maximum, a 25% PWM is a 16 A maximum, a 50% PWM is a 32 A maximum and a 90% PWM flags a fast charge option

What does an EVSE with 24A capacity indicate anyway? You'd think it would have to be 25%/16A, which of course would be quite lame if you have a 6.6kW charger in the car.

 

[KeiJidosha]

...Can I just say here how confused the SPX folks are?...

I will resist the urge to jump on the soap box about how SAE, UL, and NEC have made a dog’s breakfast of EV charging, while millions of RV owners do exactly the same thing without so much as a GFI outlet.

SPX is not confused as much as conflicted. Their product can be configured as a useful semi-portable 32 amp EVSE, but SPX cannot advertise, condone, or even confirm this off label use, and so the average EV owner suffers.

 

[darelldd]

...Can I just say here how confused the SPX folks are?...

I will resist the urge to jump on the soap box about how SAE, UL, and NEC have made a dog’s breakfast of EV charging, while millions of RV owners do exactly the same thing without so much as a GFI outlet.

I'm with you there!

SPX is not confused as much as conflicted. Their product can be configured as a useful semi-portable 32 amp EVSE, but SPX cannot advertise, condone, or even confirm this off label use, and so the average EV owner suffers.

Oh, they're plenty confused as well. At least the sales people I'm stuck talking to. As just one tiny example: When I was asked, "how fast is the car capable of charging" I answered, 6.6 kW. I was then asked, "6.6 kW per hour... or what?" This, I'm afraid, has nothing to do with the various committees who are screwing things up for us.

But back to the topic and what you've just alluded to: You're saying I can just spin the little dial, adapt the 30A plug to a 40 or 50, and call it good? All off the record and completely forbidden of course....

I still don't have any confirmation that anybody has tried using an SPX with the FIT. Anybody?

- Darell

 

[davewill]

...But back to the topic and what you've just alluded to: You're saying I can just spin the little dial, adapt the 30A plug to a 40 or 50, and call it good? All off the record and completely forbidden of course....

I still don't have any confirmation that anybody has tried using an SPX with the FIT. Anybody?

- Darell

In general, yes. The problem with the SPX and 32a is the J1772 cable and plug were only certified by UL to 30a. There's no real reason to worry that the extra 2a will cause any problems in actual use, and I personally wouldn't hesitate to do it. As far as the Fit, I can so no reason they wouldn't be compatible. No matter what setting the SPX is set to, the car should adapt to that charging rate...If you want an actual testimonial, you might be better off asking on a Honda Fit EV forum.

 

[KeiJidosha]

...I still don't have any confirmation that anybody has tried using an SPX with the FIT. Anybody?

- Darell

Darell. I admire your skepticism. Went to Home Depot and got a NEMA 14-50 box and wired it up. No it doesn’t work.

When powered up, the SPX "Power" light is Green and the "Status" light is Amber (EVSE power but not plugged in). When I plug in the car, "Status" light flashes green 2-3 times and charge light on the Fit EV turns green as the two negotiate. Then the "Status" light on the SPX goes Red indicating an “Operation Fault”. Checking my TED power monitor indicates no change in idle current draw. Troubleshooting says to unplug, clear error with “Reset”, and try again. After three attempts, call SPX. I tried to charge with it set to 32, 24, 16 and 12 amp settings, two sets of three attempts. Same result.

Thanks for helping me figure this out before I got to King City.

 

[darelldd]

If you want an actual testimonial, you might be better off asking on a Honda Fit EV forum.

No result there either. But look! I have one here! Of course it isn't great news...

 

[darelldd]

...I still don't have any confirmation that anybody has tried using an SPX with the FIT. Anybody?

- Darell

Darell. I admire your skepticism. Went to Home Depot and got a NEMA 14-50 box and wired it up. No it doesn’t work.

When powered up, the SPX "Power" light is Green and the "Status" light is Amber (EVSE power but not plugged in). When I plug in the car, "Status" light flashes green 2-3 times and charge light on the Fit EV turns green as the two negotiate. Then the "Status" light on the SPX goes Red indicating an “Operation Fault”. Checking my TED power monitor indicates no change in idle current draw. Troubleshooting says to unplug, clear error with “Reset”, and try again. After three attempts, call SPX. I tried to charge with it set to 32, 24, 16 and 12 amp settings, two sets of three attempts. Same result.

Thanks for helping me figure this out before I got to King City.

Dang. While I like the fact that I'm being thanked for egging you on to find out that it doesn't work - that is a huge bummer. And the SPX folks just got through telling me that, "It works with all cars out there."

Thanks for going through the effort and sharing the result though! MUCH appreciated.

 

[BudRaymond]

I'm curious about some more opinions about this car. Anyone else thinking of getting one? Any plans for showing up to a meetup in Los Angeles?

 

[KeiJidosha]

I'm curious about some more opinions about this car. Anyone else thinking of getting one? Any plans for showing up to a meetup in Los Angeles?

Two other places to visit;

MyHondaFitEV - First Drive reviews of Honda Fit EV

Facebook - Honda fit EV Drivers

 

[Deleted member 1622]

Had a funny experience at a local Honda dealership that I wated to share.
I walked into the dealership on Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley, CA, supposedly an EV mecca (I regularly pass multiple Leafs a day here). I asked a man there whether they had an Electric Fit for me to test drive. He snorted and said something like, "Oh, we're never going to get one of those in here." Why not, I asked? "Those cars are just losers, not worth it, only three dealerships even have one."
I thought about arguing with him, but ultimately just walked out. Then it hit me a few minutes later... I've been wondering why BEV sales are declining month to month and seem to be losing momentum. The old-school dealers (I'm talking about guys who have sold only gas cars for 30 years) and think they know everything about the typical car buyer, simply DON'T GET IT and are even actively resisting selling EVs because they have already decided that they are losers. It's one thing for major car makers like Nissan and Honda to commit to EVs, but they FORGOT to bring the dealerships along. I think it's a major problem for the future of EVs. Time to re-educate the old-schoolers to get with the program. And fit God's sake, put a test-drive car in every dealership.
JG

 

[Boomer23]

Had a funny experience at a local Honda dealership that I wated to share.
I walked into the dealership on Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley, CA, supposedly an EV mecca (I regularly pass multiple Leafs a day here). I asked a man there whether they had an Electric Fit for me to test drive. He snorted and said something like, "Oh, we're never going to get one of those in here." Why not, I asked? "Those cars are just losers, not worth it, only three dealerships even have one."
I thought about arguing with him, but ultimately just walked out. Then it hit me a few minutes later... I've been wondering why BEV sales are declining month to month and seem to be losing momentum. The old-school dealers (I'm talking about guys who have sold only gas cars for 30 years) and think they know everything about the typical car buyer, simply DON'T GET IT and are even actively resisting selling EVs because they have already decided that they are losers. It's one thing for major car makers like Nissan and Honda to commit to EVs, but they FORGOT to bring the dealerships along. I think it's a major problem for the future of EVs. Time to re-educate the old-schoolers to get with the program. And fit God's sake, put a test-drive car in every dealership.
JG

You have a point that sales staff representing car companies with EVs to sell need to be 100% committed and affirmative about the EV from their company. But the reality is that Honda is only doing a limited roll out of a limited number of cars. It is a test project for them and a compliance project for CARB and other clean air agency regulations. So Honda is not "all in" for BEVs like Nissan is with the LEAF.

The way I understand it, Honda selected only a subset of CA Honda dealers to be Fit EV dealers. They probably strategically selected them geographically to fit within the limited markets where they are leasing the car, as Honda isn't even releasing it in all parts of the state. The Fit EV program only has a specific number of cars to sell in specific markets over this and next model year, including some east coast states and Portland, so they are not spreading their effort across all dealers. I'm sure that Honda also negotiated with each selected dealer to provide appropriate training to at least one tech and to provide appropriate EVSE (charger) and diagnostic and repair equipment at the approved dealerships.

My guess is that your experience was typical of any car salesman who doesn't stock the product you're interested in. He'll trash the product to high heavens and only promote the product that he has to sell. Dealers and sales staff are independent of the manufacturer and they'll only tell you what they want you to hear in order to make that next sale. Next month, they are just as likely to be selling Fords or Chryslers.

 

[srl99]

Berkeley Honda - I wouldn't go closer than the parts counter. They didn't offer to add the EV option to any Fit on the lot? They're slipping.

Honda only allowed a small number of dealers to become "EV certified" - Oakland, Marin, Walnut Creek, Elk Grove, Santa Clara, (from memory). An _obvious_ ommission is Davis.

Why do you think Berkeley is such a mecca of E-driving? The only city EVSE is listed on Recargo as "don't pull into this garage ($5) just to charge" (one of the downtown garages). Oakland (admittedly, a much larger city) has several EVSEs in downtown garages.

When the extra-terrestrials want to leave - they'll have to fly over to Oakland to charge, first, or maybe Martinez where there are three public chargers. When the word gets out Telegraph Ave will be littered with the human carcases they've been using for cover.

You can rent a Fit EV from Zip Car, they were (test driving!) at the SF City E-car expo last week, and seem to be making the rounds.

Had a funny experience at a local Honda dealership that I wated to share.
I walked into the dealership on Shattuck Ave. in Berkeley, CA, supposedly an EV mecca (I regularly pass multiple Leafs a day here). I asked a man there whether they had an Electric Fit for me to test drive. He snorted and said something like, "Oh, we're never going to get one of those in here." Why not, I asked? "Those cars are just losers, not worth it, only three dealerships even have one."
I thought about arguing with him, but ultimately just walked out. Then it hit me a few minutes later... I've been wondering why BEV sales are declining month to month and seem to be losing momentum. The old-school dealers (I'm talking about guys who have sold only gas cars for 30 years) and think they know everything about the typical car buyer, simply DON'T GET IT and are even actively resisting selling EVs because they have already decided that they are losers. It's one thing for major car makers like Nissan and Honda to commit to EVs, but they FORGOT to bring the dealerships along. I think it's a major problem for the future of EVs. Time to re-educate the old-schoolers to get with the program. And fit God's sake, put a test-drive car in every dealership.
JG

 

[darelldd]

The old-school dealers (I'm talking about guys who have sold only gas cars for 30 years) and think they know everything about the typical car buyer, simply DON'T GET IT and are even actively resisting selling EVs because they have already decided that they are losers.

You've nailed it. Back when the Leaf was going to be available "any day now" I decided that my logical career path would be in the role of "EV expert" - I would sell EVs. After all, I've been driving and "selling" EVs to the general public for ten years at that point. It was just that I had no product (and no income from it!). Creating my resume was drop-dead simple since it is one area where I actually DO have relevant experience beyond the masses. And you can already guess what I was told... I have no experience selling *cars.* So they literally wouldn't even talk to me. How frustrating is it to walk into a dealership to buy an EV, and finding that the sales person knows nothing about living with an EV. Of course this has happened throughout history even with gas cars, but it is even more glaring now with this "new" technology. To the dealers, this is just another car to move. If it's EV-ness makes it harder to move, then it is a worse car.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Had a funny experience at a local Honda dealership that I wanted to share....
{snip}...Time to re-educate the old-schoolers to get with the program. And for God's sake, put a test-drive car in every dealership.
JG

Sad to say the problem is your unrealistic expectation that dealers know about their product. I have a message saved on my phone to remind me (Names changed to protect the innocents);

Message sent 4/16/2012 at 3:30pm from 818-742-xxxx.

Hi This message is for Mr Jidosha This is Sales Person calling you from Giant Honda Dealrship, and I had just received your request, um, that you are looking to lease a Honda Fit I’m not sure what “E”… “V”… is… … umm…but will see.. :? But anyway, give me a call and, um, we can discuss what you are looking for. My phone number here is 818-742-xxxx.
Talk to you soon

You are correct that they need to be educated about EVs. That seems to be OUR job.

 

[Deleted member 1622]

I've only just learned the term "compliance car," but now I get it. And here I thought that dealer ignorance was just coming from dealer-culture resistance or not wanting to learn something about an innovative product. But what I'm hearing in this forum (and from a few people I talked to at Plug-in Day in the Bay Area, where an actual Fit EV and a Tesla S was on display) is that this comes from the top. All this buzz about new EVs is fakery if the manufacturers themselves (except for Nissan) see this as just humoring a bunch of California legislators. It makes me angry enough to want to boycott all those companies for life.
JG

 

[theaveng]

I don't think Honda is anti-EV or trying to placate legislators. I think Honda & Toyota both share the same viewpoint: Hybrid cars are the future. Look at Toyota: They have the Prius Plug-in which has an EV mode, but only 8 mile range on the EPA test. Neither of these companies see the value in a pure EV but instead they want hybrids so that's what they are selling & pushing.