Official EV Project / Ecotality / free charger thread

[linkim]

I have the old E-7 PG&E TOU rate and last time I looked at it saw no advantage in having a second meter.

First, I have excess money in my account (around $175 to $200) each true-up period and have to give it all back to PG&E each year. If I have a second meter then there would be no way to use this free power.

Second, for E-9 rates there is a daily meter charge each month added to the super off peak rate. When you added that in you need to use a lot of power to see a big saving between my E-7 off peak and E-9 off peak. For example if you drive 800 miles per month at 4 miles per kWh then you use 200kWh. For a 30 day month the meter charage is 30 x $0.21881 = $6.56/month. E-9 Rate A summer is $0.5294/ kWh so 200 kWh cost you $10.59. Add in the meter charge takes it to $17.15 for a real cost of $0.085762/kWh compared to my E-7 $0.09273/kWh. Less than a cent difference per kWh and E-7 lets me charge at off peak starting at 6 PM until noon the next day. (For Winter rates it is even less of a difference. Numbers from 3/1/2011 Rate table.)

When I installed my solar I paid a one time charge for the TOU meter so I have no daily meter charge. E-7 rate closed back in 1/1/2008 so if you don't already have it you can't get it.

So if anyone with E-7 is thinking of getting a second meter for the E-9 rate I would like to know how they get a cost savings.

DId I miss something but my arithmetic shows $0.5294/ kWh x 200 kWh cost you $105.9.(not "$0.5294/ kWh so 200 kWh cost you $10.59"). I presently have E-1 and am wondering if there is a cost savings going to E-9 (don't have solar), now that I have a LEAF.

 

[Turbo3]

linkim, Sorry missed a zero. Changed OP to read $0.05294 instead of $0.5294.

 

[Spies]

These things should really be discussed in one of the PG&E threads but I did want to comment on a couple of things. When discussing the E-9 rate one should specify E-9A whole house rate or E-9B second meter rate.

Second, for E-9 rates there is a daily meter charge each month added to the super off peak rate.

I presently have E-1 and am wondering if there is a cost savings going to E-9 (don't have solar), now that I have a LEAF.

The daily meter charge is waived with a Smart Meter however Smart Meters are not yet available to everyone with E-9A or E-9B.

For me E-9A beats E-1 hands down. Adding a separate meter for the E-9B option was way too costly for me and would push the return on investment of the install out not just years but decades to see any savings compared to just going with E-9A . Better to put that money in solar which I have not done yet but may in the future. Granted I have not been putting a lot of miles on my Leaf as a result of us being unemployed currently but my last electric bill was $58.52. As much as I want to its really hard for me to justify investing in solar until I see my electric bill closer to $100 a month.

 

[desileaf]

So I presumed that I would not qualify for free charger, and did not look into this until recently. My dealer rep @North Bay Nissan (Ron - great guy) told me to look into this. I finally submitted online application from Nissan Leaf site.

Can someone give me ballpark estimate as to when I can expect the Blink charger to be installed assuming I qualify? I'm in Fremont, CA.


PS. First time posting to the forum.

LEAF SL Cayenne Red Nissan + QC
Reservation 4/20 (late evening)
Deliv. estimate week of 4/19 (not received yet)
VIN #2019

 

[ttweed]

So I presumed that I would not qualify for free charger, and did not look into this until recently. My dealer rep @North Bay Nissan (Ron - great guy) told me to look into this. I finally submitted online application from Nissan Leaf site.

Can someone give me ballpark estimate as to when I can expect the Blink charger to be installed assuming I qualify? I'm in Fremont, CA.

There is no clear, easy answer to your question. You need to be accepted to the program first, which may require a home assessment to check the ease/cost of installing the Blink unit in your particular location. Once accepted, they try to get the install done a week or two prior to the delivery of your Leaf. Other people have had their EVSE installed months before their car arrived, and others (like me) have had their car for a month and still not been able to charge it with the Blink unit, because of delays by the contractor, the city planners or inspectors, and the utility involved. There is no pat answer.

Welcome to the forum, though. You might look around the Blink/Ecotality threads, especially for the Bay area, and see what others have experienced. They were added to the EV Project late, so there has been some confusion/screwups in implementation. Hope yours goes smoothly.

TT
ps--I got my city inspection today for my Blink install finally, and if SDG&E gets the second meter installed in the next few days, my car may get its first sip of 240V juice this weekend, after over 1000 miles of driving.

 

[OrientExpress]

This is probably been brought up somewhere back in this thread, but a key factor in getting accepted into the EV Project is that your car have a quick-charge port installed. How long it takes to get installed is in flux right now, especially if you are in the San Francisco Bay area project.

This group did not get added until February, and they have only gotten staffed in the last month or so. They have starting behind with many participants ready to go and "chomping on the bit", too few "qualified" electricians to do the installs, and add to that, many Leaf owners that have their cars but no charger. These guys get first in line, next are the folks like me that have a delivery in the next week (I hope), and lastly is everybody else.

I was approved in February, then got a May 5th install date, then got suspended until I could prove I had a car with a quick charger ordered (thanks Nissan for the miscommunication on that ), now, with a possible 6 or 9 May install date, but no confirmation or communication on the actual date from anyone. I suspect these guys are just overwhelmed with the backlog, and are still ramping up with electricians. I would relax, and hang in there, it will happen when it happens. That's what I'm gonna do.

 

[Rat]

Here's a new wrinkle. For those of you who aren't following my personal saga on the Main news thread (Lost order, start over) I don't blame you, but it may be of interest here. The short version is that in February Nissan CS called me and encouraged me to upgrade from an SV to an SL+QC because the EV Proejct was coming to the Bay Area. So I did. The problem was that Nissan screwed up and never submitted the order to manufacturing, or at least that's what they are telling me now. They also never updated my dashboard to show that I changed from SV to SL. I called or Live Chatted with them several times back in February and March trying to get them to change it but they kept telling me not to worry, the right info went to mfg. and I will get the SL. I never got the official Nissan invitation to apply for eTec back then, but I found the link here on the forum and filled in the questionnaire. My dashboard continued to show only that I was ineligible. I tried calling Ecotality and they refused to deal with me and said to talk to Nissan, that Nissan was the gatekeeper.

Fast forward to now. A couple weeks ago I complained to CS that I had a June delivery date when everyone else who ordered in September had an earlier date, at least here in the Bay Area. A couple days later a VIN shows up on my dashboard and I'm happy...until my dealer says it's an SV, not an SL. It's reallocated from another SV buyer who upgraded at the same time I did. So I contact CS who go ballistic and become very apologetic. Investigation ensues. They realize they screwed up and apologize all over and say they are trying to find me an SL. However when I mention the EV Project and how I was never accepted, they insist that must have been due to my zip code or something else, that the dashboard database is irrelevant. In other words, their screw-up did not prevent me from getting the financial advantages of the EVP. Wrong! I finally decided to hedge my bets and place another order for exactly the same car I upgraded to in February. I just did that and just got accepted into the EVP!

So if you want to get in, just order a second Leaf. Don't trust Nissan to get you in if you change anything. As soon as they fill my first order I'll use the Ecotality contract on the second order and apply it to the first one I get, then cancel the second order. I'm glad I didn't get the AV EVSE when I first had the chance. The EV Project may someday come to your area, too, so take that into account when you decide on that EVSE.

 

[jhartman]

I am part of the EV Project. I had an appointment for the Blink charger to be installed by SunWest tomorrow (May 7th). Earlier in the week SunWest called to cancel as there was a problem with the LADWP requiring a second meter. They did not have any further information.

I called Blink today. They were not aware that LADWP was requiring a second meter, although it does explicitly state this on the LAWDP website.

I then left a message for LADWP to find out what is going on. They returned my call approximately an hour later.

The deal is that LADWP will not provide the reduced electrical rate unless you have a second meter. There is no charge to install the second meter, however there is a $8/month fee. The second meter will be installed after the charger is installed, however they need to obtain a Building Safety Release Job Card first. An inspector from the LADWP comes out to make sure you have enough power (something SunWest did last fall for me).

The first step is to complete the online form which will then trigger an inspector from LADWP. Go to www.ladwp.com/ev Choose the first one under Related Links. You need to do this first before you can complete the Rebate Application for the Charger. The rep I spoke with said it shouldn’t take them too long to book the inspection.

The $2,000 LADWP rebates is only applicableif there are charges that you paid for out of pocket after all other rebates/incentives. In my case SunWest is charging me $884.24 as their cost to get to my garage from the box was $2,084.24 which is over the $1,200 EV Project allotment. Hence I could get the $884.24 back from LADWP. Since this is over 9 years of the extra $8/month fees for the second charger it seems to be a prudent move.

LADWP will inspect the charger installation and hook up to the second meter after the permit has been filed. Once again no charge.

The LAWDP said to let everyone know that the first step for everyone who is a LAWDP customer should be to fill out their application. They are puzzled as to why this isn't being announced. Questions can be answered by calling LAWDP at 213-367-8036.

I am expecting delivery in June (originally April) so I hope all of this can be resolved before my Leaf arrives. LADWP was optimistic regarding their turnaround time.

Jennifer Hartman
Los Angeles

 

[thankyouOB]

I am part of the EV Project. I had an appointment for the Blink charger to be installed ...

The deal is that LADWP will not provide the reduced electrical rate unless you have a second meter. There is no charge to install the second meter, however there is a $8/month fee. The second meter will be installed after the charger is installed, however they need to obtain a Building Safety Release Job Card first. An inspector from the LADWP comes out to make sure you have enough power (something SunWest did last fall for me).


Jennifer Hartman
Los Angeles

some of this information is good but the rate info is a tad off.
You do need the second meter for the EVSE rebate. You do not need it for the rate discount IF you already have a whole house TOU meter or choose to replace the regular rate and go with TOU for your whole-house service. This is the only sensible choice if you have PV solar, as adding the second service means you cant offset your EV bill with your solar production or solar dollar bank. They are separate services.

from their website and their PDF:
OPTION 2: Residential Time-of-Use with EV Discount

Residential customers who are on the Residential Time-of-Use Rate for their entire household, including the EV charger, can receive the EV discount of 2.5 cents per kWh for up to 500 kWh of off-peak energy use. As described above, the Time-of-Use rates are based on when the electricity is used, unlike the standard rate that varies according to how much energy is used. This option is most suited for customers who already consume most of their energy during off-peak hours—on weeknights or anytime on weekends. Customers who elect this rate option may receive substantial savings if they charge their EV and use most of their household electricity during these off-peak hours.

Click here for the current Residential Time-of-Use Rate (scroll down to “Rate B”).

http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp014298.jsp

What you need to decide in getting the second service and meter, is whether the rebate on the EVSE is worth more than $150 a year forever from the lower EV rate.

 

[91040]

I qualified for the Ecotality project.

Wednesday, Boardwalk Electric told me they have their Blink installations on hold while LADWP reviews their policies. Boardwalk said requiring the 2nd meter was part of this. I was planning to use my solar electric overproduction with the Leaf. :x

 

[Volusiano]

This thread is so long. So forgive me if my question has already been answered somewhere in this thread. I qualify for a free Blink installation and they're coming next week to install. They ask me how long I think the wire run will be from the panel to where I want the Blink to be and I told them that it's easily 50 feet. They said that this long run may cause them to go over their allotted budget of $1200 for the installation and that I'd probably have to pay extra for the longer run (I think 20 feet is their normal run that's within the budget). I asked if they know how much more I'd have to pay out of pocket for the extra long run and the girl at the office said she doesn't know but the guy who will be doing the installation can give me a quote for the extra cost.

I wonder if anybody here was in the same situation I'm in, and how much more you had to pay for the longer conduit wire run (in terms of extra $/linear foot). The girl at the office said it might be a few hundred dollars more but she's not sure exactly how much more in my case until the installer gets a chance to measure up the whole length.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

This thread is so long. So forgive me if my question has already been answered somewhere in this thread. I qualify for a free Blink installation and they're coming next week to install. They ask me how long I think the wire run will be from the panel to where I want the Blink to be and I told them that it's easily 50 feet. They said that this long run may cause them to go over their allotted budget of $1200 for the installation and that I'd probably have to pay extra for the longer run (I think 20 feet is their normal run that's within the budget). I asked if they know how much more I'd have to pay out of pocket for the extra long run and the girl at the office said she doesn't know but the guy who will be doing the installation can give me a quote for the extra cost.

I wonder if anybody here was in the same situation I'm in, and how much more you had to pay for the longer conduit wire run (in terms of extra $/linear foot). The girl at the office said it might be a few hundred dollars more but she's not sure exactly how much more in my case until the installer gets a chance to measure up the whole length.

It might fall inot their standard cost or less than another $200 unless it requires going into additonal crawl spaces or something else that's more work. With them providing the charger, QC port and $1200 worht of installation at no cost to you, even if it overruns by a few hundred it's still a great savings over the alternatives.

 

[KeiJidosha]

“We’ve taken a pragmatic approach to EV charger deployment and worked closely with project stakeholders to develop charging stations that meet the needs of EV drivers and utilities,” said Don Karner, president of ECOtality North America. “Our team has provided prompt and professional installation support for residential chargers. We will maintain this same high level of customer service and attention as we ramp up commercial installations. Working with local stakeholders on our EV Micro-Climate process, we have streamlined many of the installation processes and have mapped out the best locations strategically for public charging stations that will maximize the return on the U.S. Department of Energy grant and private investment.”

Location of "Map" please.

 

[Rat]

Like others I got accepted into the EV Project only recently (even though I ordered in September and applied in February), so I don't have the patience to look through this thread's 50 pages. Can anyone tell me how long I can expect to wait before getting the Blink people to do an assessment and how long after that for the install? Does anyone know if they will use existing unused 220V Romex wiring for a dryer or insist on a new conduit run? If so it's about 100' for me, and so could get expensive. My AV assessment was $3501. I would appreciate any pointers or contact info from others in the Silicon Valley area.

 

[jcesare]

Like others I got accepted into the EV Project only recently (even though I ordered in September and applied in February), so I don't have the patience to look through this thread's 50 pages. Can anyone tell me how long I can expect to wait before getting the Blink people to do an assessment and how long after that for the install? Does anyone know if they will use existing unused 220V Romex wiring for a dryer or insist on a new conduit run? If so it's about 100' for me, and so could get expensive. My AV assessment was $3501. I would appreciate any pointers or contact info from others in the Silicon Valley area.

The assessment is based on your delivery date, about 4 weeks before, installation 2 weeks before, but your milage may vary.

Not sure about the existing wiring. Probably depends on your local inspector/code. If you have to install a 2nd meter, it needs dual 40 amp breakers before and after the meter.

 

[TEG]

 

[KeiJidosha]

Android? No App

http://www.theevproject.com/charging-maps.php

EV Project? No Map

When?

 

[whoami]

You guys really believe "glossies" (spec-sheets). I remember not that long ago the Blink L2 EVSE glossy indicated they would show state of charge, which is impossible given the J1772 spec.

The app is pretty much worthless until public L2 EVSEs exist in quantity.

 

[TEG]

...I remember not that long ago the Blink L2 EVSE glossy indicated they would show state of charge, which is impossible given the J1772 spec...

Well, if your Leaf is also part of the EVproject, and Blink got linked into Carwings it is possible that the car could upload SOC data and then Blink could wirelessly D/L it into the EVSE to show on the screen. Probably wouldn't update very frequently, but not impossible to implement.

 

[wsbca]

Another press release today, announcing a partnership with a "global real estate firm", Jones Lang LaSalle.


Excerpt:

Jones Lang LaSalle will assist in identifying more than 2,000 host sites for Blink commercial charging units, including the Blink Level 2 Commercial Pedestal Charger, and the Blink DC Fast Charger. The planning efforts accomplished as part of the initial stages of The EV Project in the market areas will be used as the starting point for locating these host sites

What a joke this is turning out to be. The "planning efforts accomplished as part of the initial stages" supposedly included numerous verified locations a year ago. 8 months ago the spin was that all those awesome locations would be "free for project participants through May" as if that was going to be a huge perk.

The only saving grace to this whole thing is that for the most suitable usage pattern for the car (regular short to medium commute+errands), the infrastructure isn't actually needed, any more than you need public cell phone charging stations. It will be convenient, and add functionality on the margin, but it's not essential. The problem is that you don't really realize or believe that until you've had the car for a while, and without the cosmetic panacea of the infrastructure, uptake beyond the more risk tolerant early adopter set is liable to fizzle.

Don't get me wrong, our Leaf is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the waste of time and therefore money on the DOE/Ecotality side seems to be verging on criminal.