Official Kia Soul EV thread

[DanCar]

Fiat advertises their electric car even though none are available. In my opinion this lowers their status rather than raises.
Are price and EPA range known?

 

[mtndrew1]

Fiat advertises their electric car even though none are available. In my opinion this lowers their status rather than raises.
Are price and EPA range known?

There's 364 Fiat 500Es listed for sale on cars.com. I see at least three per day on my commute.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Fiat advertises their electric car even though none are available. In my opinion this lowers their status rather than raises.
Are price and EPA range known?

Like the iconic 1984 ad for the Mac right?

and I am assuming you meant Soul EV ?

 

[GRA]

Fiat advertises their electric car even though none are available. In my opinion this lowers their status rather than raises.
Are price and EPA range known?

Assuming you're asking about the Soul EV, price hasn't been announced yet, but range is apparently 92 miles EPA, about what was expected from the 3kWh bigger battery than the LEAF. The Soul EV is probably going to be the first sub-$40k (I'm guessing it will be closer to $35k) BEV to break the 90 mile EPA barrier.

 

[lorenfb]

Fiat advertises their electric car even though none are available. In my opinion this lowers their status rather than raises.
Are price and EPA range known?

Assuming you're asking about the Soul EV, price hasn't been announced yet, but range is apparently 92 miles EPA, about what was expected from the 3kWh bigger battery than the LEAF. The Soul EV is probably going to be the first sub-$40k (I'm guessing it will be closer to $35k) BEV to break the 90 mile EPA barrier.

Whether it's the Leaf at 84 EPA or the Soul at 92, they're basically the same range vehicles from a buyers perspective.
And then why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of the Leaf's three years of 'field testing' for an unknown BEV that
costs more and just has an EPA of just eight more miles?

 

[Devin]

Whether it's the Leaf at 84 EPA or the Soul at 92, they're basically the same range vehicles from a buyers perspective.
And then why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of the Leaf's three years of 'field testing' for an unknown BEV that
costs more and just has an EPA of just eight more miles?

All the LEAF's three years of 'field testing' have done is prove that Nissan's thermal management strategy is very poor and has resulted in capacity loss across the board. That hurts the case for the LEAF, it doesn't help it. To use the same logic, why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of Chevy's three years of modern plug-in 'field testing' for a LEAF that costs more than a Spark with active battery cooling and gets only 2 more EPA miles?

 

[GRA]

Whether it's the Leaf at 84 EPA or the Soul at 92, they're basically the same range vehicles from a buyers perspective.
And then why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of the Leaf's three years of 'field testing' for an unknown BEV that
costs more and just has an EPA of just eight more miles?

All the LEAF's three years of 'field testing' have done is prove that Nissan's thermal management strategy is very poor and has resulted in capacity loss across the board. That hurts the case for the LEAF, it doesn't help it. To use the same logic, why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of Chevy's three years of modern plug-in 'field testing' for a LEAF that costs more than a Spark with active battery cooling and gets only 2 more EPA miles?

Then there's the Soul's battery heater and driver's side-only heating options, both of which should significantly boost the car's real world range in colder climates compared to the LEAF. In addition, while +- 2 or 3 miles may be 'basically the same range', +8 miles provides a very useful real world range advantage for some. I expect the Soul will be able to manage 100 miles on a charge with a lot less special behavior than a LEAF.

 

[evnow]

All the LEAF's three years of 'field testing' have done is prove that Nissan's thermal management strategy is very poor and has resulted in capacity loss across the board.

Most people just don't care - since they lease. Nissan's battery problems just reinforced the case for leasing.

 

[JeremyW]

Yeah but people don't want to perpetually lease forever. Even within my lease I have very noticeable degradation in a little over two years and 29k miles. I'm 21% down.

I think Nissan's decision to omit TMS was a very bad idea. Most who disagree are in the PNW. Hmm. Wonder why... :roll:

Staying on topic... the Kia Soul EV has a battery fan that draws in cabin air to cool the battery. If you really want to cool the battery you can turn on the climate control remotely and set it to the lowest temperature while charging... :twisted:

 

[KeiJidosha]

Yeah but people don't want to perpetually lease forever. Even within my lease I have very noticeable degradation in a little over two years and 29k miles. I'm 21% down.

I think Nissan's decision to omit TMS was a very bad idea. Most who disagree are in the PNW. Hmm. Wonder why... :roll:

Staying on topic... the Kia Soul EV has a battery fan that draws in cabin air to cool the battery. If you really want to cool the battery you can turn on the climate control remotely and set it to the lowest temperature while charging... :twisted:

Fit EV has no TMS, and at 27k, no degradation. Toshiba SCiB battery site now predicts 90% capacity after 10,000 cycles. Batteries look to outlast the car.

It’s not the TMS omission, it’s the chemistry, and LEAF is off my list until it gets fixed. Looking at Soul EV and eGolf to replace FEV (when I have to). And will lease to confirm batteries’ persistence, then buy. I want to own, and know the LEAF's battery won’t hold up.

 

[Devin]

All the LEAF's three years of 'field testing' have done is prove that Nissan's thermal management strategy is very poor and has resulted in capacity loss across the board.

Most people just don't care - since they lease. Nissan's battery problems just reinforced the case for leasing.

Indeed, that's my point. "Field testing" for reliability only really matters for buyers in the long term. How many people buy the 10 year extended warranty for a leased car they know they won't have in >3 years?

 

[JeremyW]

It’s not the TMS omission, it’s the chemistry

I agree completely. I should have said, using the current chemistry Nissan should have used TMS. We'll know how well the lizard holds up in about two summers.

I've heard the FitEV doesn't like the cold as much. I can't tell if it's the battery chemistry being more sensitive or just winter efficiency taking a hit (the car was designed to be pretty efficient with a small battery), or maybe just the heater vampire draw (can't remember if it has a heat pump). At any rate, a cold sensitive battery is an easier problem to solve. Just add resistance heat while charging!

 

[lorenfb]

Whether it's the Leaf at 84 EPA or the Soul at 92, they're basically the same range vehicles from a buyers perspective.
And then why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of the Leaf's three years of 'field testing' for an unknown BEV that
costs more and just has an EPA of just eight more miles?

All the LEAF's three years of 'field testing' have done is prove that Nissan's thermal management strategy is very poor and has resulted in capacity loss across the board. That hurts the case for the LEAF, it doesn't help it. To use the same logic, why would a buyer trade-off the knowledge of Chevy's three years of modern plug-in 'field testing' for a LEAF that costs more than a Spark with active battery cooling and gets only 2 more EPA miles?

And you know that TMS on the Soul is going to make a significant reduction in battery
degradation, right? Where are the long term data to support that, i.e. Spark and others with TMS?
No other BEV has sold the volume that Leaf has to draw any significant conclusion how TMS
will or will not significantly reduce battery degradation, i.e. the temperature effect is one of many
factors affecting long term battery degradation! Again, many assume that casual relationships
can be determined because a correlation between variables exist.

Are many without experience with lithium ion battery electronics, e.g. the laptop, to not have had
to replace the batteries over time thru use because of degradation exclusive of a temp effect?
Sounds as if many were naive to the fact that a battery is NOT a perfect energy storage device
when buying a BEV and that its storage capacity does degrade.

 

[evnow]

Indeed, that's my point. "Field testing" for reliability only really matters for buyers in the long term. How many people buy the 10 year extended warranty for a leased car they know they won't have in >3 years?

Not having TMS is the future. Nissan is well positioned to get there earlier than everyone else.

 

[Pipcecil]

Maybe I'm too hopeful, but this is their first year of sales. Nissan didn't sell nationwide their first year either. The Soul EV is done WAY better than any of the other compliance cards (quick charger, no battery in the trunk, nationwide advertising). Time will tell if they are serious about the Soul EV in volume, but it looks like they have things lined up well for their first year.

Oh, I am definitely hopeful as well. The soul ev looks neat and has promising size and range a very strong competitor to the leaf. The downside is their commitment. While Nissan didn't release the leaf in all states to start they definitely had a plan to roll out to all with dates (although they slipped some) so you could at least know it was coming. Kia on the other hand is just a "we'll wait and see" which is very soft in commitment, ESPECIALLY since EVs already are way more established than 3 years ago when Nissan broke into the market. I don't see much reason to go as soft as they are in launching if they really are behind the car and want it to sell.

 

[evnow]

Maybe I'm too hopeful, but this is their first year of sales. Nissan didn't sell nationwide their first year either.

True - but Nissan didn't rollout only in ZEV states to start with. Infact 3 of the 5 states were not ZEV.

Soul is rolling out 100% in ZEV states, right ?

 

[gsleaf]

Soul is rolling out 100% in ZEV states, right ?

Good question... from their website "Available in California in the fall, with East Coast availability expected in 2015"
(http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/soul-ev/2015/experience?story=hello" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

Man I'll be bummed if that's the release. I was really hoping to see it in Oregon.

From InsideEVs (http://insideevs.com/production-kia-soul-ev-begins-april/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

"initially it will be sold only in California, Oregon, and several Eastern states, with the largest EV markets and infrastructure including New York, New Jersey and Maryland. In Québec, Canada"

 

[padamson1]

...
Man I'll be bummed if that's the release. I was really hoping to see it in Oregon.

Called two different Kia dealers in the PDX area last Friday. Both said that the Soul EV would initially be sold only in California and wouldn't be in Oregon for another 6 months.

 

[gsleaf]

...
Man I'll be bummed if that's the release. I was really hoping to see it in Oregon.

Called two different Kia dealers in the PDX area last Friday. Both said that the Soul EV would initially be sold only in California and wouldn't be in Oregon for another 6 months.

BOOOOOO!!!!! That stinks. I test drove the Mercedes EV and it was a nice drive, but really lacked polish (for instance it displayed all the gas stations as I drove). I was hoping to be able to try out a Kia Soul EV.

 

[NYLEAF]

If it's going to be a compliance car, I'm just happy they're going to release it in all the states that have CA's ZEV law. New York is a ZEV state and we don't have the Fiat, we don't have the RAV4, we don't have the Spark, etc etc etc. My understanding is that the law changes in 2018, meaning that any compliance EVs will have to be sold in all ZEV states to qualify. Fuel Cell vehicles will still allowed to be sold in CA only past 2018.

Nissan, on the other hand, annoyed me by delaying the release of the Leaf in NY for 14 months after it was first sold in CA. Non-ZEV states like Texas and Florida had the Leaf many months before we could get it here in NY -- and it wasn't due to infrastructure, because both FL and NY had 0 QCs for at least a year after the Leaf was sold in those states.