Official Kia Soul EV thread

[Smidge204]

Where are the battery degradation data?

I dunno, where are the goalposts? They seem to have been moved!

Did Nissan ever release official battery degradation data? Has Tesla?

Your belligerent refusal to read this thread aside: Battery has a 70% capacity, 10 year/100K mile warranty. More or less the same as the LEAF except for 10 years.
=Smidge=

 

[evnow]

Nissan didn't sell that many more Leafs in the first year...

How worldwide can you get when production is only 5,000/year?

Just in the US Nissan sold 9,674 in 2011. They sold an almost equal number (or more) in Japan and about 50% or so in Europe.

 

[lorenfb]

Where are the battery degradation data?

I dunno, where are the goalposts? They seem to have been moved!

Did Nissan ever release official battery degradation data? Has Tesla?

Your belligerent refusal to read this thread aside: Battery has a 70% capacity, 10 year/100K mile warranty. More or less the same as the LEAF except for 10 years.
=Smidge=

Right, so the Soul has the same expected life as the Leaf's battery, i.e. few car buyers think in terms
of a 10 year ownership. Then there's no benefit to pay more for the Soul than the Leaf, or you're
now paying for more for the Soul because of the additional warranty.

A BEV warranty length doesn't mitigate the reality of battery degradation!

 

[Smidge204]

Right, so the Soul has the same expected life as the Leaf's battery, i.e. few car buyers think in terms of a 10 year ownership. Then there's no benefit to pay more for the Soul than the Leaf!

Ignoring the nit that it's 10 versus 8 years, you seem to be ignoring a whole bunch of hullabaloo over the LEAF experiencing somewhat widespread battery failures.

70% of 27kWH is objectively better than 70% of 24kWH in 8 years. That means the soul EV could potentially have useful capacity for more owners than a LEAF would, since it would take longer for degradation to reduce the range below a usable threshold for any particular user.

Now, you could argue that it's a SMALL advantage, sure, but it's still an advantage. We'll have to wait and see how the price shakes out.
=Smidge=

 

[TomT]

The problem is that Nissan's handling and transparency - or lack thereof - of the degradation problem for years has left a bad taste in my mouth and it's going to take a while for it to fade... Thus, everything else being equal, I'll buy something other than a Leaf next time... They have not done enough to earn my repeat business.

Nissan didn't sell that many more Leafs in the first year...

How worldwide can you get when production is only 5,000/year?

Just in the US Nissan sold 9,674 in 2011. They sold an almost equal number (or more) in Japan and about 50% or so in Europe.

 

[lorenfb]

"We'll have to wait and see how the price shakes out."

Yes, and wait for some of the car reviews.

 

[Devin]

"We'll have to wait and see how the price shakes out."

Yes, and wait for some of the car reviews.

Excellent, we will look forward to your denial of those reviews in addition to all the other data posted in this thread.

 

[mtndrew1]

Right, so the Soul has the same expected life as the Leaf's battery, i.e. few car buyers think in terms of a 10 year ownership. Then there's no benefit to pay more for the Soul than the Leaf!

Ignoring the nit that it's 10 versus 8 years, you seem to be ignoring a whole bunch of hullabaloo over the LEAF experiencing somewhat widespread battery failures.

70% of 27kWH is objectively better than 70% of 24kWH in 8 years. That means the soul EV could potentially have useful capacity for more owners than a LEAF would, since it would take longer for degradation to reduce the range below a usable threshold for any particular user.

Now, you could argue that it's a SMALL advantage, sure, but it's still an advantage. We'll have to wait and see how the price shakes out.
=Smidge=

It seems to me there's some genuine potential consumer advantages to the Soul EV as well as the intangible warranty stuff:

- 10% greater EPA range than the Leaf
- Driver-only climate control option for energy savings
- Ventilated AND heated seats
- Comprehensive 3G-based app functions including "stop charge"
- Standard 100kW capable DCQC with active cooling

Just off the top of my head. Not discounting the Leaf (it's my likely purchase soon) but the Soul seems to be properly competitive in the sub-100 mile EV space.

 

[evnow]

The problem is that Nissan's handling and transparency - or lack thereof - of the degradation problem for years has left a bad taste in my mouth and it's going to take a while for it to fade... Thus, everything else being equal, I'll buy something other than a Leaf next time... They have not done enough to earn my repeat business.

That makes sense - and that's exactly how it should work. Having had a Korean car for 10 years, we are not keen on getting any more.

But we should be careful to not confuse sentiment with facts. just because you don't like the battery degradation on Leaf doesn't somehow make Kia more committed to EVs than Nissan.

 

[gsleaf]

They haven't listed US prices yet, but they do have pricing for Norway now...

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=94" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The price differs 30'000 NOK ~ 5'000 USD.
The price in norway (we don't have taxes or anything extra on fully electric vehicles) is: 193 900 NOK (32'500 USD) for the classic, and 223 900 NOK (37'500 USD) for the exclusive.

 

[Berlino]

It seems to me there's some genuine potential consumer advantages to the Soul EV as well as the intangible warranty stuff:

- 10% greater EPA range than the Leaf
- Driver-only climate control option for energy savings
- Ventilated AND heated seats
- Comprehensive 3G-based app functions including "stop charge"
- Standard 100kW capable DCQC with active cooling

Just off the top of my head. Not discounting the Leaf (it's my likely purchase soon) but the Soul seems to be properly competitive in the sub-100 mile EV space.

1) I can't find the SOUL's EPA range on the official government site, but the NEDC range is 6% higher than the LEAF's.

2)Even if 100kW CHAdeMO were available, I'm not sure that I'd want to charge a 27kWh battery that fast. As for the active cooling, is it by liquid, by A/C, or by ambient air?

 

[Berlino]

Nissan, on the other hand, annoyed me by delaying the release of the Leaf in NY for 14 months after it was first sold in CA. Non-ZEV states like Texas and Florida had the Leaf many months before we could get it here in NY -- and it wasn't due to infrastructure, because both FL and NY had 0 QCs for at least a year after the Leaf was sold in those states.

It's as if Nissan was afraid of how the LEAF would perform in the cold, when they should have been more concerned with delaying sales in Arizona.

 

[GRA]

"Assuming they price it reasonably, the SoulVisit the Soul Forum has numerous advantages
over the LEAF for many people, including me."

Like what, i.e. other than the joke of eight more miles and TMS with an unknown battery chemistry?

The advantages have already been enumerated in posts above. If you don't consider them advantages for you, fine; I have no wish to convince you otherwise. But there are many LEAF owners who've posted and find that the Soul provides advantages for them, so they obviously disagree with you.

 

[GRA]

It seems to me there's some genuine potential consumer advantages to the Soul EV as well as the intangible warranty stuff:

- 10% greater EPA range than the Leaf
- Driver-only climate control option for energy savings
- Ventilated AND heated seats
- Comprehensive 3G-based app functions including "stop charge"
- Standard 100kW capable DCQC with active cooling

Just off the top of my head. Not discounting the Leaf (it's my likely purchase soon) but the Soul seems to be properly competitive in the sub-100 mile EV space.

1) I can't find the SOUL's EPA range on the official government site, but the NEDC range is 6% higher than the LEAF's.

2)Even if 100kW CHAdeMO were available, I'm not sure that I'd want to charge a 27kWh battery that fast. As for the active cooling, is it by liquid, by A/C, or by ambient air?

EPA range has been quoted in several articles as 92 miles, presumably the testing was done by Kia. Given their history, the EPA may want to re-test it themselves. As to cooling, I believe it's by circulating A/C air, not liquid. Probably not as good as liquid, but a hell of a lot better than nothing at all, as on the LEAF.

 

[Smidge204]

It appears that there is a blower fan in what would otherwise have been the spare tire well, under the carpet in the rear cargo area, that blows cabin air into/over the battery. I haven't seen anything to suggest this air is conditioned above and beyond what it might already be inside the cabin.
=Smidge=

 

[GRA]

As to cooling, I believe it's by circulating A/C air, not liquid. Probably not as good as liquid, but a hell of a lot better than nothing at all, as on the LEAF.

It appears that there is a blower fan in what would otherwise have been the spare tire well, under the carpet in the rear cargo area, that blows cabin air into/over the battery. I haven't seen anything to suggest this air is conditioned above and beyond what it might already be inside the cabin.
=Smidge=

That's my understanding too. Assuming most people like air temps of 68-78 deg., that should be enough to keep the battery below 30C (86 deg. F.), which is said to be the point where heat-related degradation starts to increase rapidly for most Li-ion chemistries.

 

[Smidge204]

http://www.plugincars.com/kia-sets-34500-price-soul-ev-130102.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MSRP $34,500

"The Soul EV Plus, which brings the price to $36,500, adds leather trimmed seats—heated in front and back—projection-style fog lamps and power-folding outside mirrors."
=Smidge=

 

[edatoakrun]

Full Press release here:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/prnewswire/press_releases/California/2014/09/11/LA09882" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Kia Motors America (KMA) today announced pricing for the all-electric version of its hugely popular urban passenger vehicle, the Kia Soul. Offered in two trims, Base and + (Plus), the 2015 Soul EV MSRP will be $33,700 (not including federal tax rebate of $7,500) for the Base and $35,7001 for the Plus (not including federal tax rebate of $7,500). With an expected introductory lease price of $249 per month, the Soul EV boasts best-in-class EPA-estimated range of 93 miles and MPGe4 of 92 miles on the highway and 120 miles in the city (105 miles combined...

Sounds very promising to me...

 

[mkjayakumar]

I like the specs. I like the price.

 

[evnow]

In bold ...

Soul EV expected Fall 2014; initially available in certain California markets only with limited availability. Actual limited time lease offer terms and further details to be announced around vehicle launch

This is beginning to look like FCEV. Not even available all over CA - but only selected areas within CA.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program of how well this competes with Leaf. :lol: