Official Kia Soul EV thread

[GetOffYourGas]

I believe what he is referring to is the fact that a manufacturer does not actually have to sell any cars in a given ZEV state, but rather can count sales in another state towards the requirement (no double-dipping though).

For example, many EVs are not available in NY. It is easier for Toyota, for example, to just sell the Rav4 EV in a handful of dealerships in CA. They just have to sell enough to hit the percentage for all 8 ZEV states combined. Therefore, although NY signed on to the group, we don't see the benefit. Instead CA gets a few extra cars.

That's called the "Traveling Provision". In model year 2018, it goes away except for hydrogen cars, which will continue to be sold in California only.

In addition to only selling/leasing hydrogen cars in California only, they also get 300% more credit per car than a "100 mile" battery electric car.

So, even if Washington state joins CARB-ZEV, you won't see a Toyota, Hyundai, or Honda ZEV there. I suspect there will be others, like Mercedes, will go hydrogen, too.

Well, either he mispoke or I misunderstood him. But yes, that was my assumption of what evnow was referring to.

I'm glad that provision goes away in 4 years. Too bad it isn't sooner. We could really use a few more options outside of California. Although my local Kia dealer claimed he would have a Soul EV this fall. Looks like it may be next spring. Or maybe 2018. Sigh.

 

[evnow]

I wasn't aware that governors had the responsibility of writing legislation, just thought they could sign or veto it. Last I checked, Washington still claimed to be a democratic republic, so the governor is hardly the only person with any say in the matter.

Well, legislators don't write legislation, either. That is done by lobbyists.

Anyway, governors can easily get legislation written.

This change may not even need a new law ... Depends on how the current one is written.

But the important point is that because of travel (not transport!) provisions, it doesn't matter what WA does. OEMs will not sell compliance EVs here.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Most of the ZEV cars sold in California are also, or are becoming, available in the so-called "CARB States" as well. They include NY and NJ, as well as, IIRC. MA.

 

[cwerdna]

Most of the ZEV cars sold in California are also, or are becoming, available in the so-called "CARB States" as well. They include NY and NJ, as well as, IIRC. MA.

Most? Off the top of my head, these are only available in CA or CA and OR: Rav4 EV, Spark EV and Fiat 500e.

The Fit EV, which is available in some extra states is going away and from what I hear, has been hard to get for awhile anyway. Rav4 EV is only available in CA and is going away too.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Most of the ZEV cars sold in California are also, or are becoming, available in the so-called "CARB States" as well. They include NY and NJ, as well as, IIRC. MA.

Most? Off the top of my head, these are only available in CA or CA and OR: Rav4 EV, Spark EV and Fiat 500e.

The Fit EV, which is available in some extra states is going away and from what I hear, has been hard to get for awhile anyway. Rav4 EV is only available in CA and is going away too.

Exactly.


Starting in 2012, the "Large Vehicle Manufacturers" (LVM) must sell a minimum number of California Air Resources Board - Zero Emission Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) qualifying vehicles for compliance in California:

• 
  Manufacturer - ZEV used for compliance:
  
  Ford - Focus EV
  Honda - Fit EV
  Chrysler/Fiat - 500e
  Toyota - Rav4 EV, iQ EV
  GM Chevrolet - Spark EV
  Nissan - LEAF

For model years 2015 and beyond, both LVM and Intermediate Vehicle Manufacturers (IVM) must comply with CARB-ZEV:

• 
  BMW - i3
  Fiat/Chrysler - 500e
  Ford - Focus EV, hydrogen by 2018?
  General Motors - Spark EV, potential "200 mile EV moon-shot", hydrogen by 2018?
  Honda - absolutley hydrogen
  Hyundai - absolutley hydrogen
  Kia - Soul EV
  Mazda - Demio EV
  Daimler/Mercedes - B-Class ED, Smart ED, hydrogen by 2018
  Nissan - LEAF, eNV-2000
  Toyota - absolutley hydrogen
  Volkswagen - eGolf

Auto manufacturers that are NOT subject to CARB-ZEV due to their small size:

Tesla
Mitsubishi
Fuji Heavy Industry (Subaru)
Jaguar Land Rover
Volvo

These additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with Plug-In Hybrids (PHEV).

Model Year - ZEV Credit Percent Requirement

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here's what your friends, the auto makers, think about the loss of the Traveling Provision:

Auto manufacturer's Oct 19, 2012 request to EPA for waiver from CARB:

http://www.globalautomakers.org/sites/default/files/document/attachments/JointCommentsCAWaiverRequest10-19-12.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"It is highly unlikely that the required infrastructure and the level of consumer demand for ZEVs will be sufficient by MY2018 in either California or in the individual Section 177 States to support the ZEV sales requirements mandated by CARB. EPA should therefore deny, at the present time, California’s waiver request for the ZEV program for these model years. During the interim, Global Automakers and the Alliance believe that California and EPA, with full auto industry participation, should implement a review for the ZEV program similar to the mid-term review process adopted under the federal GHG and CAFE regulations for MYs2017 through 2025."

That's a whole lot of gobbledy goop to say, "keep the traveling provision so we can only sell cars in California at the minimum number, and not sell any in the other CARB states."

CARB-ZEV state coalition - California, New York, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont, Maryland, Connecticut and Rhode Island. Maine and New Jersey are participating with ZEV initiatives, but are not signatory CARB-ZEV states.

The eight states combined account for 23% of U.S. vehicle sales, according to California’s Air Resources, and all ten states make up 28%.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Most of the ZEV cars sold in California are also, or are becoming, available in the so-called "CARB States" as well. They include NY and NJ, as well as, IIRC. MA.

In MA I've seen LEAF, iMiev, i3, MB and Smart for sale so far. Tesla is approved fully and it will tàke an unlikely legislative act to oust them, regardless of how much money Herb Chambers and the dealer assns throw at it. No Kia of course. VW possibly soon. Ford dealers will order a Focus EV for you, but without any EV tech support, it's risky. A dealer near Boston had Fits, now long gone. No Ravs or Fiats. Spark might make it here, but haven't seen it yet.

 

[Pipcecil]

Most of the ZEV cars sold in California are also, or are becoming, available in the so-called "CARB States" as well. They include NY and NJ, as well as, IIRC. MA.

Most? Off the top of my head, these are only available in CA or CA and OR: Rav4 EV, Spark EV and Fiat 500e.

The Fit EV, which is available in some extra states is going away and from what I hear, has been hard to get for awhile anyway. Rav4 EV is only available in CA and is going away too.

The "official" list for each one is a bit more complicated (and weird too):

Honda Accord Plug-in Hybrid: California and New York
Toyota Plug-in Prius: Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virgina, and Washington
Chevrolet Spark EV: California or Oregon
Fiat 500e: California
Toyota Rav4 EV: California
Honda Fit EV: California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island

The only commonality is California. Like why does the spark also sell in Oregon but the accord plug-in is in New York? Why doesn't the PiP sell to all states, it almost has them all anyways. I sometimes get confused at their choices of states. Like when the smart fortwo ED was limited, it was the same as the Honda Fit states except it added Maine as well...why? At least the smart fortwo ed sells in all states now.

 

[evnow]

Phevs don't matter - they don't give gold credits.

 

[GRA]

Most of the ZEV cars sold in California are also, or are becoming, available in the so-called "CARB States" as well. They include NY and NJ, as well as, IIRC. MA.

Most? Off the top of my head, these are only available in CA or CA and OR: Rav4 EV, Spark EV and Fiat 500e.

The Fit EV, which is available in some extra states is going away and from what I hear, has been hard to get for awhile anyway. Rav4 EV is only available in CA and is going away too.

The "official" list for each one is a bit more complicated (and weird too):

Honda Accord Plug-in Hybrid: California and New York
Toyota Plug-in Prius: Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, and Washington
Chevrolet Spark EV: California or Oregon
Fiat 500e: California
Toyota Rav4 EV: California
Honda Fit EV: California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island

The only commonality is California. Like why does the spark also sell in Oregon but the accord plug-in is in New York? Why doesn't the PiP sell to all states, it almost has them all anyways. I sometimes get confused at their choices of states. Like when the smart fortwo ED was limited, it was the same as the Honda Fit states except it added Maine as well...why? At least the smart fortwo ed sells in all states now.

500e is also available in Oregon now.

 

[tuanies]

Driving this tomorrow, anyone have any questions they want answered?

 

[gsleaf]

Driving this tomorrow, anyone have any questions they want answered?

When will it be available in Oregon? Does it have a heat pump?

 

[DanCar]

How big is the trunk compared to the leaf? How is rear leg room compared to leaf? Where you driving it?

 

[tuanies]

I'll take lots of pics. Driving it in Dana Point at a Kia Sedona / Soul EV press event.

 

[Berlino]

Does it have a heat pump?

In Canada they're saying the heat pump comes with the premium version.

 

[tuanies]

Driving this tomorrow, anyone have any questions they want answered?

When will it be available in Oregon? Does it have a heat pump?

It had a heat pump on all versions. There's a driver mode that only blows air out of the driver side vents so it doesn't have to work as hard. The plus version has ventilated seats too.

 

[tuanies]

Here're the images I took during the event.

P1100696 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100699 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100704 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100715 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100739-Edit by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100740 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100741 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100743 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100744 by tuanies, on Flickr

P1100730 by tuanies, on Flickr


The rest of the album is here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/tuanies/sets/72157648076985675/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[KeiJidosha]

Here're the images I took during the event.

Great pics, thanks. What did you think of the test drive?

 

[gsleaf]

Did the door over the charge ports seem sturdy?

 

[GRA]

Very positive review and test drive here, including photos:

http://www.slashgear.com/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-a-new-city-car-star-24347741/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like the reviewer, I'm glad there are real buttons for the climate control and audio/nav system, including my biggest requirement for the latter, a push on/off/twist volume knob. It's a little smaller than I like, but far enough away from any others that there doesn't appear to be any problem mistaking it.