Official Southern California Edison thread

[drmanny3]

Very interesting post "OK, I just got my July bill today; first bill on the TOU-D-TEV plan". I do recall that the TOU rate is an ideal rate for existing Solar Panel customers. At least this is how it is presented in their literature. If you were not going to install a Solar Panel system then perhaps you would be better off staying on their standard rate system. We have been on the TOU for about a month now. I am awaiting the end of July to see how we do. We should with our Solar Panel system be at a positive credit this month. However with the Leaf consuming juice it will be interesting to see what affect the car has. We currently have a digital meter which is the interim model as our community is not set for the smart meter until probably the end of August. So for us while I cannot go on line to see my usage, I do get net metering now. I suspect that our bill for July will be better than June's. For June we had the 5 tier standard rates. With the AC credit, and the leaf charged throughout the day for the entire month, I think we were charged about 288 kwh which kept us in tier one. Our bill for that month was about $13.00. Our AC credit was about $23.00. So we should have had a normal bill of about $36. Still not too bad. For this entire month (July) we have charged during SOP 12 midnight to 6 am. We are semi retired so we are home all day. This is not ideal with the TOU, however we have such a well insulated home that we don't get hot inside until late in the day close to 6 pm. We are in the North Tustin area.
On another note, I believe that SCE has done a fantastic job in their effort to support the plug in/electric car market. Obviously, they are trying to level out their power consumption over the 24/7, never the less they have spent a lot of money and effort trying to find ways to help us and them. My hat is off to their organization. I had the opportunity to participate in a number of surveys they conducted over the last year or so. I am the first to agree that the rate structure is not always easy to decipher. But let’s not forget we are pioneers in a very new and exciting technology.

Manny

 

[Boomer23]

Right now, I already have a smart meter, but I'm told that until SCE swaps it out for a bidirectional one that I won't get net metering... so any electricity that I generate and don't use just gets fed into the grid for free? How long does it take for them to enable the net metering? I don't want to get burnt again this month. Maybe I should charge my car during peak hours to try to use as much of my solar output as possible, because the excess won't be helping my bill at all?

I'd say yes, that unless you have a meter that can do net metering, you'd be sending the power back to the grid for free. So if there are any days when your solar PV system is operating, but SCE hasn't put in your bidirectional meter or set up the start date of your net metering plan, you'd be better off charging your car during peak solar generating hours. But once you are set up for net metering, you'll definitely want to start charging your LEAF between midnight and 6 am.

How long does it take for them to enable net metering? From the few stories I've seen on this forum, it has varied a lot.
For me, we were already on solar and net metering for years before we got the LEAF, so we just requested the change-over to TOU-D-T a few months before the LEAF came, and then changed to TOU-D-TEV once the LEAF came. As I recall, SCE handled those changes quite efficiently and quickly. They do, however, make changes at the beginning of your monthly billing cycle (not necessarily the first of the month), rather than in the middle of a month.

 

[DaveEV]

Right now, I already have a smart meter, but I'm told that until SCE swaps it out for a bidirectional one that I won't get net metering... so any electricity that I generate and don't use just gets fed into the grid for free?

I'd say yes, that unless you have a meter that can do net metering, you'd be sending the power back to the grid for free.

It can be worse than that - I know that some non-net meters when "run backwards" will actually run forwards! So instead of getting credited for your generation - you pay for it!

 

[drmanny3]

There may be a few out there that have not gotten credit for their Solar Panel electricity overproduction. I had heard that initially the smart meters did not do net metering. When I asked SCE about this issue a month ago they said that by the time I get mine August/Sept 2011 that net metering will be available in our area (North Tustin). That implies that it might not be available elsewhere? I would think they would work something out for those where it does not work. That is why I am using the digital meter. It is bi directional. In the end I think the smart meter program will be successful. I like the idea of tracking my use and eventually being able to command my appliances by computer to turn on and off. I understand that Solarcity now offers a service where you can see your actual usage against what you are producing. I would love to add that to my system but wonder how much extra per month it is? It probably involves equipment?
Manny

 

[EricH]

4) For some bizarre reason, my L1 On-Peak usage delivery charge was charged at the rate of -0.02541. Yes, I was credited for it, instead of being charged!

I (literally) can't explain why the "kWh" charge is broken out between delivery and generation, but it is. Further, in order to meet policy goals, like a certain on- to off-peak retail price ratio to spur time-shifting, while maintaining generation costs at specific levels, sometimes the "delivery charge" is a residual calculation, and, as you noted, can even be negative. If you check your bill for the generation charges during that period, you should find the total kWh price was not negative.

 

[mwalsh]

I understand that Solarcity now offers a service where you can see your actual usage against what you are producing. I would love to add that to my system but wonder how much extra per month it is? It probably involves equipment?

Sunpower's Energy Monitoring system offers this. They even have an iPhone app it will work with! But I guess you have to have a Sunpower version of the SMA inverter?

 

[lincomatic]

4) For some bizarre reason, my L1 On-Peak usage delivery charge was charged at the rate of -0.02541. Yes, I was credited for it, instead of being charged!

I (literally) can't explain why the "kWh" charge is broken out between delivery and generation, but it is. Further, in order to meet policy goals, like a certain on- to off-peak retail price ratio to spur time-shifting, while maintaining generation costs at specific levels, sometimes the "delivery charge" is a residual calculation, and, as you noted, can even be negative. If you check your bill for the generation charges during that period, you should find the total kWh price was not negative.

Right, the generation charge is positive. I'm with you.. it's crazy how they break it into delivery/generation and with TOU, generation is broken into DWR and SCE. And every one of them has different kWh allocated to L1/L2. I think they're just trying to obfuscate the bill and make it completely inscrutable.

 

[EricH]

I'm with you.. it's crazy how they break it into delivery/generation and with TOU, generation is broken into DWR and SCE. And every one of them has different kWh allocated to L1/L2. I think they're just trying to obfuscate the bill and make it completely inscrutable.

The DWR/SCE gen split is a remnant from the Gray Davis energy crisis (~2000-2002), and will eventually end when those DWR contracts expire over the next few years. The "Distribution/Gen" split is due to California adopting "Direct Access" in the 1990's - those D/A customers only pay their utility for Distribution, and they buy the Energy/Gen from some other provider, so every rate has to be broken out into those components.

It should get better over the next few years, as the DWR contracts expire and other simplification steps are put in place, but I agree it's very frustrating today.

 

[drmanny3]

I was expecting to see how my electricity broke out over the new TOU schedule. Well the month ended, they read the digital meter but there is no bill. When I go online and try and look at this last month there is nothing. I called in to see if they would just tell me what my usage. The gal was unable to see any records for me. She suggested that it might take a month before I know how things worked out. Has anyone out there had a similar experience. We started the TOU mid month in June only to be told that it would only start at the beginning of the month. That was July. Now July is over but no information. We are also scheduled for the smart meter durng the month of August. The gal also told me I would be among the last to get the meter because they need to make sure everything works before they hook up those with solar.
Manny

 

[Leland]

I am having a heck of a time with the TOU switch. Our change over took place on May 25th. Our bill is usually generated on the 25th of each month. We never received a June bill. I called SCE on June 29th and was told there wasn't a bill generated for June due to the TOU switch over. On July 26th I received an e-mail with a $0.00 balance. I called SCE again and was told they were having issues with the smart meters....Can't wait to see if a bill is generated at the end of this month!

 

[Boomer23]

I was expecting to see how my electricity broke out over the new TOU schedule. Well the month ended, they read the digital meter but there is no bill. When I go online and try and look at this last month there is nothing. I called in to see if they would just tell me what my usage. The gal was unable to see any records for me. She suggested that it might take a month before I know how things worked out. Has anyone out there had a similar experience. We started the TOU mid month in June only to be told that it would only start at the beginning of the month. That was July. Now July is over but no information. We are also scheduled for the smart meter durng the month of August. The gal also told me I would be among the last to get the meter because they need to make sure everything works before they hook up those with solar.
Manny

I'd recommend giving it a few days, Manny. My meter is read on the 6th of each month. By the 8th of the month, I check online for my bill and it isn't quite posted yet. I give it another day, and there it is. It seems to take them about 3 or 4 days to get it calculated and posted.

 

[lincomatic]

My TOU switchover was pretty painless. Lucky I happened to call SCE on the day of the switchover... I'd been charging my car any time of day... they told me that the TOU kicked in on the day the billing cycle ended. The end of the first TOU cycle was on the 22nd of the month, just like my previous bills. I got a notification of my bill late that day, and was able to view my first TOU bill online from SCE's website via a link from my bank.

My PV was turned on this past Tuesday. Now, I need to find out when they're going to install the new smart meter for net metering. I'm told that in the meantime, I don't get any credit for the power that I feed into the grid from my PV array.

 

[DaveEV]

My PV was turned on this past Tuesday. Now, I need to find out when they're going to install the new smart meter for net metering. I'm told that in the meantime, I don't get any credit for the power that I feed into the grid from my PV array.

Be careful - some meters will spin forward when the energy if feeding to the grid - meaning you get billed for your generation! To be safe - I'd leave the PV system off unless your utility says it's OK. Typically, the utility is the last one to inspect the system at which point they'll install a new meter. Sometimes they will install a net-metering capable meter ahead of time...

 

[drmanny3]

I finally was able to find the following under usage for last month. No actual bill yet. Can anyone out there tell me what the usage type means.
Manny

Start Read Date: 06/28/2011 End Read Date: 07/29/2011

Meter Number Usage Type Meter Reading From Meter Reading To Difference Multipler Usage Qty
342M-011504 KWHTOT 0.00 0.00 725.00
342M-011504 KWHSNP 0.00 0.00 3.00
342M-011504 KWHSFP 0.00 0.00 363.00
342M-011504 KWHSSP 0.00 0.00 359.00
342M-011504 GWHTOT 0.00 0.00 543.00
342M-011504 GWHSNP 0.00 0.00 349.00
342M-011504 GWHSFP 0.00 0.00 194.00
342M-011504 GWHSSP 0.00 0.00 0.00

 

[xtremeflyer]

KWHTOT = KWh Total
KWHSNP = KWh Summer On Peak
KWHSFP = KWh Summer Off Peak
KWHSSP = KWh Summer Super Off Peak
GWHTOT = Generated KWh Total
GWHSNP = Generated KWh Summer On Peak
GWHSFP = Generated KWh Summer Off Peak
GWHSSP = Generated KWH Summer Super Off Peak

 

[drmanny3]

Thanks Xtremeflyer for the quick response. I checked on our Solarcity account and for that period and I produced approximately 950 kwh. I went back and subtracted the two days at the end of the month and added the three from the last month to coincide with SCEs dates. So what gives, as they are saying I produced far less in electricity? They are showing that I had a net consumption of 182 kwh for the month. If you add up all my numbers you get 1086 kwh, and there's is 1450 kwh. Substract the big from the small and you get a 364 kwh difference, divide that by two and you get the 182 kwh that they say I used for the month??? Very strange. When I take the total produced by me and subtact from the total consumed I get the 182. That number seems reasonable given that we charged almost everyday at midnight to 6am and we were at about a little more than half with the Leaf battery. So the 359 kwh for charging the Leaf is probably correct. We used are AC probably about 7 or 8 days always after 6 pm and sometimes late into the evening. So I would expect a higher electricity usage because of that. Prior to the Leaf we would have had a surplus of electricity production for this month. Somewhere about a plus 100 to 200 kwh of electricity with our old meter depending on our AC usage. So the only thing that has changed is our getting the Leaf and having the digital meter added with a TOU rate. So perhaps their funny math still works out ok. I have not seen the actual numbers associated with the net 182 usage. Perhaps our production during the day earning a bit at the $0.56 rate will offset the costs?
Manny

 

[drmanny3]

OK, I just went back to the SCE page and checked to see if a bill has been loaded. And sure enough there is my bill. I was floored in that we ended up with a $49.51 credit. That is the most we have ever had with our Solar Panel system. So this last month given our charging of the Leaf, plus our use of the AC, we were charged $1.91 which I will pay by the due date and we got a credit of $49.51 that will be used to offset our winter use when the Solar Panels are not doing as well. Damn!!! we essentially charged our Leaf for free last month. Wow is all I can think of saying. Going green in not only the right thing to do but it is also cheaper. And right now cheaper is a good thing. I am so damn excited. So in spite of the numbers it all worked out great. Our Solar investment will pay for itself in under 4 years. We generated about $60 of credit during the dreaded On Peak time frame. And we are home all day. We do everything we can before 10 am and after 6 pm. So even though we had a net usage of 182 kwh we still received a credit to our account because of our production during the On Peak.
Manny

 

[DaveEV]

So what gives, as they are saying I produced far less in electricity?

Keep in mind that your PV system is measuring ALL the energy it generates, while your utility meter is measuring what is actually pulled to / from the grid - it's generation number is measuring what's actually exported to the grid.

So let's say that your PV system is generating 10 kW, but you're running your AC at the time time which sucks down 4 kW, the utility meter will only count you generating at 6 kW.

 

[drmanny3]

That could be an explanation. When we had a regular meter that would make sense in that if we produced more than what we used then the meter would go backward. Now with the digital meter there is no backward ability. They just measure what you consume and what you produce. But as I think about it, if I am producing would it not feed into my panel and only if it was greater than what I was actually using would it got back to the grid. So for the month of July I used about 182 kwh over and above what I produced. Because I produced during the On Peak, I ended up with a credit overall. So If I believe Solarcity at 950 kwh and then add 182 kwh that means my total usage must have been around 1132 kwh for the month. That makes sense.
Manny

 

[Boomer23]

OK, I just went back to the SCE page and checked to see if a bill has been loaded. And sure enough there is my bill. I was floored in that we ended up with a $49.51 credit. That is the most we have ever had with our Solar Panel system. So this last month given our charging of the Leaf, plus our use of the AC, we were charged $1.91 which I will pay by the due date and we got a credit of $49.51 that will be used to offset our winter use when the Solar Panels are not doing as well. Damn!!! we essentially charged our Leaf for free last month. Wow is all I can think of saying. Going green in not only the right thing to do but it is also cheaper. And right now cheaper is a good thing. I am so damn excited. So in spite of the numbers it all worked out great. Our Solar investment will pay for itself in under 4 years. We generated about $60 of credit during the dreaded On Peak time frame. And we are home all day. We do everything we can before 10 am and after 6 pm. So even though we had a net usage of 182 kwh we still received a credit to our account because of our production during the On Peak.
Manny

Our bill was pretty similar to yours, Manny. Because we happen to have more people living in the house these days, and we drove the LEAF more miles than in any previous month, we used 172 kWh more than we generated, and yet our bill on the TOU-D-TEV rate schedule was a credit of $55.82. We only used 5 kWh during Peak hours, mostly because we don't have air conditioning and we do most cooking and laundry before 10 am or after 6 pm, or on weekends.

We're in month #5 of our annual net metering schedule, and we already have an amassed credit of about $305 to use against months when our solar PV system will generate less power.

We're very pleased with this rate plan, obviously, and I can't wait to tell everyone about it who has solar and an EV.