Official Southern California Edison thread

[Aeolus]

I've been on net metering for over 5 years and on TOU-D-TEV for 18 months. SCE finally installed my smart meter on August 13. And ever since then, SCE hasn't been able to bill me. On Saturday, about 45 days later, a meter reader came out to take a manual reading. He appeared to be some kind of high level meter reader/tech guy. He said that SCE hadn't been able to make contact with my smart meter and that they might have to install a new one (or a non-smart meter, it wasn't clear). He said that SCE has been having trouble connecting with thousands of smart meters along the coastline due to air conditions (he said salt, sand, etc... sand???), and that they were looking at needing to swap many of them out for manually read meters. This after they laid off all of the meter readers

.

Yeah, Surf's up in Irvine, Dude.

Next they will be blaming the Disneyland fireworks.

There are some common terms for conditions like this. My friend from the consumer electronics industry said they had a term for failed boomboxes returned by their customers. "BDB", an acronym for Box Don't Blow. I've also had customer service reps describe some products with chronic problems as SDW, **** Don't Work.

My feel from talking to various people is that their software that interprets signals from Smart Meters sucks so badly that when they have a complicated job, like keeping track of both time of use and net meter billing, it's BDB and SDW.

On a better note, my September billing was kind of astonishing. I generated slightly more electricity than I consumed, so I sent SCE a net of 19 Kwh. The dollar credit on my bill after TOU rates were applied was $109. Crazy!

 

[Boomer23]

On a better note, my September billing was kind of astonishing. I generated slightly more electricity than I consumed, so I sent SCE a net of 19 Kwh. The dollar credit on my bill after TOU rates were applied was $109. Crazy!

Yep, love those summer TOU credits!

 

[hill]

Does anyone know what frequency the smart meters transmit on? I have transceivers that go down as low as a few 1000 hertz all the way up to 10 gig .... I'd hate to accidentally interfere with their signal.
:twisted:
.

 

[lipower]

Some use the zigbee spec:

ZigBee operates in the industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) radio bands; 868 MHz in Europe, 915 MHz in the USA and Australia, and 2.4 GHz in most jurisdictions worldwide. Data transmission rates vary from 20 to 900 kilobits/second.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigBee

Some are a 2-channel device that use cellular frequencies to transmit usage and generation(solar, wind, cold fusion, etc.).
824-860 MHz range

FCC Guidelines
902-928 MHz
Smart meter transmitter- 601uW/cm2 MPE
2.4GHz
Smart meter transmitter-1000 uW/cm2 MPE
*4 uW/cm2

 

[mwalsh]

This was last week, but I'm only just seeing the message. I signed up, maybe 2-3 weeks ago, to become an Edison Customer Advisory Board member. But as of 10/16 they needed more people to sign up. See below if you're an Edison customer and are interested:

Hi!

As you might know, I recently was asked to join an online opinion panel for Southern California Edison called the SCE Customer Advisory Board. I thought you might be interested in joining the SCE Customer Advisory Board since they are looking for customers who are interested in helping shape the future of SCE by sharing opinions in surveys and discussions. It just takes a few minutes to register to become a member so you can start having your opinion heard too.

This board is being created in conjunction with an independent market research firm, Decision Analyst, Inc. Once you register and become a member of the Customer Advisory Board, you would be paid for every online survey you complete, ranging from a minimum of $2 to $6, or in special instances, up to $50. After you complete a brief questionnaire to see if you qualify for a survey, you would also have an opportunity to win cash prizes in a drawing, regardless of whether you were selected to complete the survey.

Your information will never be used for sales or advertising purposes, and your name will never be sold to other companies.

If you are interested in becoming a member of the Customer Advisory Board or in obtaining more information about it, please go to:

http://panel.sce.com/SCE/Default.aspx?L=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you need assistance or have any difficulty, please email Jill Anderson with Decision Analyst, Inc. at [email protected].

 

[Boomer23]

Joined. Thanks Mike.

 

[z0ner]

The personal info they want is MUCH too invasive for $5 a survey. I'm cheap, but not that cheap I'm out.

 

[hill]

(sigh) . . . . a month late and a dollar short . . . sometimes I wonder why I bother . . .

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Welcome you two . . . better late than never

 

[voltiar]

Hello Leaf people! I own a Chevy Volt but am a frequent lurker here because there's no other forum on the Volt and SCE. I am in the process of going online with my 6k solar system (just waiting for SCE to flip the switch) and am really anxious to know if this $15,000 investment is going to pay off. I've read nearly every page of this thread and still have no idea how I'll come out. If anyone has a similar scenario, please let me know how I'll fare.

PV System: 6000 kw, estimated 8,352 kWh yearly
December bill, typical with car charging
On Peak Usage: 167 kWh @ 18.17%
Off Peak Usage: 424 kWh @ 46.02%
Super Off Peak Usage: 330 kWh @ 35.81%
Average Daily Usage: 32.89 kWh.
Total Usage: 921 kWh
Rate : TOU-DTEV-SDP
My December bill was $180 and my Jan bill is looking to be about $200.

I probably average 250-275 kwh for charging my car, of course at midnight - 6 am. We are light-medium A/C users. I work from home but you can see my peak usage at 18% looks relatively low (or does it?). Can anyone guesstimate what my yearly costs or credit would be based on these numbers? Not expecting anyone to crunch numbers but hoping someone with a similar scenario can chime in or red flag me on any numbers that jump out. Thanks so much. I love my Volt but the Leaf community is really great!

 

[Boomer23]

Hi voltiar and welcome. My situation is pretty similar to yours and I'm quite familiar with my own SCE rate schedule, which is TOU-D-TEV. My plan is a single meter, time of use domestic plug-in vehicle charging plan. I haven't heard of your rate plan, but it sounds similar to mine. You might want to compare your rate plan with mine to see if there are differences.

My solar system is 5.16 kW, 24 Sunpower 215W panels on a 20 degree roof, facing south with slight winter tree shading in coastal OC, about 7 miles from the beach, as the crow flies. Total solar output for 2012 was 8,443 kWh. December total usage was 892 kWh and EV charging used 250 kWh (though it averages closer to 300 kWh per month). Almost all of our EV charging has been done during SOP hours after midnight. The main difference between you and me is that I don't have air conditioning, though we're planning on installing this year. Of course, we are set up with annual net metering with SCE, which allows banking of summer credits to be used to offset winter net usage.

The bottom line is that our cost for all of our electrical usage is essentially zero. The "magic" comes from the credits that we generate during the summer months. Especially in Tier 2, those credits are large enough to strongly offset the costs of our usage during Off Peak and SOP hours. Heavy usage during Peak summer hours, for AC for instance, will degrade those credits, so that's where you might run into some costs that I'm not seeing.

It's important to differentiate between solar net generation credits and billing credits. Utilities will only pay you a credit, i.e. send you a check, if you make more power than you use during a net metering year (NMY), meaning that you end your NMY with a surplus of kWh. In that case, SCE must pay you a credit of about 3 cents per kWh of surplus. Yes, 3 cents because for power production, you are a wholesale provider. On the other hand, it is possible to end the NMY with a billing (dollar) credit balance even though you have used more power than you generated. So you can end your NMY with a kWh balance of several thousand kWh net used and have a credit balance of a $100 or so because of solar generation offsets. SCE won't pay you a dime for this billing credit balance, it will just be canceled out, because you don't have a net generation kWh balance. So in this case, your total bill for your NMY will be zero.

Last year, we had a lot of extra usage, mostly during Off Peak, because we had extra family members living with us. Even so, we essentially zeroed out our bill. When I ended my most recent NMY, I had a kWh balance of about 3,000 kWh net used, yet my total bill for the NMY was less than $7 (except for a couple dollars per month service charge that SCE charges every customer, and you pay these monthly as you go). Total NMY usage was about 11,400 kWh and total solar generation was about 8,500 kWh.

If you have more specific questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.

EV plus PV is a magic combination, especially in Southern California, and I find it fun to track these things. It is especially fun to drive 11,000 miles per year for no fuel cost.

 

[voltiar]

Hey Boomer23, how much daily power are you generating the last few weeks? We have very similar scenarios and my newly installed 6k system is only generating about 10khw a day at most. The weather hasn't been great but when it was sunny and 75 the other day, I only got 10. That means I'll get 300 for the month under perfect January weather but the installer estimated 500 on his proposal. Wondering if I have a bad panel or something.

 

[smkettner]

Edison seems to have raised the super off peak rate again.

I pay 15.1 cents per kWh to charge from 12a to 6a :evil:

Two tier 11 cents and 18 cents. Apparently CA gets no benefit from the big drop in natual gas prices :roll:

On edit: up again now 11 cents and 19 cents

 

[Boomer23]

Hey Boomer23, how much daily power are you generating the last few weeks? We have very similar scenarios and my newly installed 6k system is only generating about 10khw a day at most. The weather hasn't been great but when it was sunny and 75 the other day, I only got 10. That means I'll get 300 for the month under perfect January weather but the installer estimated 500 on his proposal. Wondering if I have a bad panel or something.

Are you sure that you're looking at total solar generation, rather than net power sent back to the SCE grid? If so, you do appear to have some kind of issue with your array. My best output for a January day was 22 kWh at the end of the month, with several days of 20 and 21. My total for the month was 543 kWh, which was a new high for a January in the six years I've had my system.

I have heard about bad panels or a panel or group of panels improperly wired. My neighbor had that problem and his installer paid him for the difference between his actual output and his promised output for the period until they diagnosed and fixed the problem. You should also verify that you have no shading issues from trees or chimneys. Even slight shading can pull your output down drastically, far more drastically than the apparent percentage of shading.

BTW, your best performing solar days will be sunny, cold, windy days. Solar panel performance drops due to heating on warm days. Wind keeps the panels cooler and improves performance.

 

[voltiar]

Thanks Boomer. Had my solar guy out here the other day and it turns out I blew a fuse on the transformer so was only getting HALF the power! I knew something was wrong. After he fixed it my output doubled and I was happy again. When he originally turned on the system it was rainy and cloudy so he didn't catch the low output. I need to get a good monitoring system to keep an eye on problems. Thinking of a Current Cost Envir, Effergy Elite, or a TED system that tracks generation. Anyone have these systems and can recommend one?

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Thinking of a Current Cost Envir, Effergy Elite, or a TED system that tracks generation. Anyone have these systems and can recommend one?

TED works great for us. One MTU each for the utility feeds, car charging circuit, and PV production. No monthly fees, no remote access, works best with Chrome, may conflict with some other home wiring communication devices, relatively easy to set up and configure, several MNL members here who can help.

 

[Boomer23]

Thinking of a Current Cost Envir, Effergy Elite, or a TED system that tracks generation. Anyone have these systems and can recommend one?

TED works great for us. One MTU each for the utility feeds, car charging circuit, and PV production. No monthly fees, no remote access, works best with Chrome, may conflict with some other home wiring communication devices, relatively easy to set up and configure, several MNL members here who can help.

Yes, I also have the TED, same exact setup as Highdesertdriver. I can get my daily solar power output without needing to check my inverter, car charging usage and total household net power drawn from Edison. I also use a free TEDometer app on my iPhone and iPad that gives me TED data through wifi. Very handy. And you can probably skip TED's own wireless display.

TED has been very reliable for me, but I'd say that the setup can be a bit challenging due to a) the need to connect the MTUs to a 240 V breaker in your power panel (I was lucky to be able to have my electrician help with that, but some DIYs can do it themselves), b) the signals come through house wiring, and it can be tricky to find an outlet in your house that'll get a clean signal while being close enough to your router for a network cable to reach (I bought a longer cable to make my setup work), and c) interference on wiring circuit from cfl bulbs or power supplies. I've had good success, but I had to swap some cfls on a patio to LEDs to eliminate line interference, and a CFL that was about to die at a different location caused interference until I figured out the problem.

I also have an issue with my TED install because my new power panel has a split feed from the Edison side of the panel to the customer side, and TED's current measuring device is designed for only a single feed, so I had to enter a 2X multiplier factor in the TED software to get correct results. This may be giving me a slight error on my total household usage readout, but it's tolerable.

Also be sure to check that you have enough space inside your power panel (near the circuit breakers, behind the front safety plate) for the TED MTUs and current detectors. My previous 100 Amp panel would have been too cramped for TED.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Yes, I also have the TED, same exact setup as Highdesertdriver.

Credit where credit is due: After consulting with Boomer, we modeled our system like his. :lol:

TED has been very reliable for me, but I'd say that the setup can be a bit challenging due to a) the need to connect the MTUs to a 240 V breaker in your power panel (I was lucky to be able to have my electrician help with that, but some DIYs can do it themselves.

Since we had no room for an additional breaker in our service panel, before making our order, I contacted the company. They advised that piggy-backing the lead(s) on existing breakers was satisfactory, just not preferred.

b) the signals come through house wiring, and it can be tricky to find an outlet in your house that'll get a clean signal while being close enough to your router for a network cable to reach (I bought a longer cable to make my setup work), and c) interference on wiring circuit from cfl bulbs or power supplies. I've had good success, but I had to swap some cfls on a patio to LEDs to eliminate line interference, and a CFL that was about to die at a different location caused interference until I figured out the problem.

Attaching only one lead will double the signal on that circuit. The flip side is that the plug you choose for your Gateway may not be on that power leg. If so, one more step will be required to move the lead to a breaker on the other leg.

Also be sure to check that you have enough space inside your power panel (near the circuit breakers, behind the front safety plate) for the TED MTUs and current detectors. My previous 100 Amp panel would have been too cramped for TED.

This is good advice. There was only room for one MTU inside the service panel so we located the PV MTU inside the inverter case and the EVSE MTU inside it's small adjacent breaker box. When helping a friend install his system, it was necessary to file off some small plastic tabs inside the service panel to to get the clamping coils around the feed wires. If space is critical, some of the competing systems have smaller coils.

 

[voltiar]

Okay, I just got an Efergy Engage energy monitoring system which is very similar to the TED. I put the two CT clamps around each black and red wire going through the disconnect box and then connected to the Engage hub. The readings are coming in high though. In fact, I am getting a reading of 79 watts/120volts at NIGHT. If I change to 360 volts I get 237 watts. On my SMA transformer, the display shows 360 volts but not sure what to set the Efergy to, household 120v or the 360v.

Maybe there is always current going through the feed wires? I think I read that transformers are backfed some current or they won't turn on as a safety precaution to line workers (in a blackout, the panels won't feed the grid).

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Boomer23]

Okay, I just got an Efergy Engage energy monitoring system which is very similar to the TED. I put the two CT clamps around each black and red wire going through the disconnect box and then connected to the Engage hub. The readings are coming in high though. In fact, I am getting a reading of 79 watts/120volts at NIGHT. If I change to 360 volts I get 237 watts. On my SMA transformer, the display shows 360 volts but not sure what to set the Efergy to, household 120v or the 360v.

Maybe there is always current going through the feed wires? I think I read that transformers are backfed some current or they won't turn on as a safety precaution to line workers (in a blackout, the panels won't feed the grid).

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

I can't help much, sorry to say. I have a SunPower inverter, and my TED CTs are clamped around the wires coming into my power panel from the inverter, inside my main panel, before the wires connect to the PV circuit breaker (after the disconnect box, of course). As far as Voltage, I believe that we're talking 240 Volts for the feed into the power panel (someone correct me if I'm wrong). At night, my PV system reads a constant negative 3 Watts!

 

[DaveEV]

Inverters very often have a bit of vampire draw - and that vampire draw is typically very reactive meaning that a decent amount of current will flow over the wires but not much power.

The SMA inverters look to be very good at having low vampire load - but I bet it's highly reactive and it's quite possible that your energy monitor is getting confused by that load.