Official Southern California Edison thread

[voltiar]

Boomer, still not getting the math. It seems to make sense to try and get the on-peak as high as possible with solar. The cost difference of on-peak to super-off peak is much higher in Tier 2, so wouldn't it make sense to get into that Tier? I'm not doubting you but take a look at my usage percentages.

Right now my on-peak usage is -201% (that's negative), off-peak is 37% and super-off-peak 264%. As you can see, I am weighted heavily in on-peak as generation and super-off-peak in usage, so wouldn't it make most sense to get that on-peak rate as high as possible?

Also, I just checked the SCE webpage and it shows 60 cents as the summer peak, not the 70 cents and other rates you quoted. Is that some future rate hike?

I really can't believe how complex SCE makes all this. You need an engineering degree to figure out their bills. We are so far above the national average in $ per kwh it's not even funny. What happened? It seemed like this all started spiraling after the Enron debacle and Grey Davis signed us into some long-term contract.

 

[Boomer23]

Boomer, still not getting the math. It seems to make sense to try and get the on-peak as high as possible with solar. The cost difference of on-peak to super-off peak is much higher in Tier 2, so wouldn't it make sense to get into that Tier? I'm not doubting you but take a look at my usage percentages.

Right now my on-peak usage is -201% (that's negative), off-peak is 37% and super-off-peak 264%. As you can see, I am weighted heavily in on-peak as generation and super-off-peak in usage, so wouldn't it make most sense to get that on-peak rate as high as possible?

Do you mean -201 kWh rather than % ?. If you mean %, I don't understand your reference, percent of what?

Your logic makes sense, but I've tried modeling the rates with and without added usage in Off Peak and Super Off and it always works out that you're worse off if you use more power. I need to stare at the spreadsheet a while longer to fully understand it. Again, if you send me a private message on the forum with your email address, I'll send you a spreadsheet for summer rates and you can play with it.

Also, I just checked the SCE webpage and it shows 60 cents as the summer peak, not the 70 cents and other rates you quoted. Is that some future rate hike?

The rates I posted are from an email that another forum member got from an SCE official when he asked why his billing rates didn't match the web site that you are seeing. The rates are a recent hike, effective Jan 1, 2013, and SCE hasn't updated their web site yet. So much for customer care and communications.

I really can't believe how complex SCE makes all this. You need an engineering degree to figure out their bills. We are so far above the national average in $ per kwh it's not even funny. What happened? It seemed like this all started spiraling after the Enron debacle and Grey Davis signed us into some long-term contract.

Yeah, my understanding is that we have tiered rates partly due to the Enron debacle. I'm wondering if the recent hikes are partly related to the other debacle that's happening now with the shutdown of San Onofre Nuclear Plant causing increased costs, which are passed on to the consumer.

 

[voltiar]

The -201% came directly from SCE's website. When I log onto my account it shows this info:

Net On Peak Usage: -125 kWh. On Peak Percentage: -201.70%
Net Off Peak Usage: 23 kWh Off Peak Percentage: 37.28%
Net Super Off Peak Usage: 164 kWh. Super Off Peak Percentage: 264.41%

Not sure exactly what the % mean, but it does demonstrate a big swing in Peak and SOP.

Thanks, I'll send you a PM now.

 

[Boomer23]

The -201% came directly from SCE's website. When I log onto my account it shows this info:

Net On Peak Usage: -125 kWh. On Peak Percentage: -201.70%
Net Off Peak Usage: 23 kWh Off Peak Percentage: 37.28%
Net Super Off Peak Usage: 164 kWh. Super Off Peak Percentage: 264.41%

Not sure exactly what the % mean, but it does demonstrate a big swing in Peak and SOP.

Thanks, I'll send you a PM now.

Got it. I'll send you something later tonight.

 

[RLewisCA]

Anyone notice the new TOU-D-TEV rates effective April 1st?? I'm going to have to do my calculations again, however on their face, they appear much more attractive. When I did all of my calculations before, there was no real benefit between residential and TOU-D-TEV rates in my situation (no solar), and the second meter option (TOU-EV-1) was going to save me about $500 per year, but would cost roughly $2,500 to install the meter ring, 2nd panel and 40 amp receptacle. Now, they've completely reworked the TOU-D-TEV rates to the following:


Summer:

Tier 1 SOP: 9 cents
Tier 2 SOP: 9 cents

Tier 1 OP: 12 cents
Teir 2 OP: 31 cents

Tier 1 P: 28 cents
Tier 2 P: 47 cents

Winter:

Tier 1 SOP: 10 cents
Tier 2 SOP: 10 cents

Tier 1 OP: 11 cents
Tier 2 OP: 30 cents

Tier 1 P: 16 cents
Tier 2 P: 35 cents

Previous Rates were:

Summer:

Tier 1 SOP: 10 cents
Tier 2 SOP: 19 cents

Tier 1 OP: 13 cents
Teir 2 OP: 31 cents

Tier 1 P: 19 cents
Tier 2 P: 70 cents

Winter:

Tier 1 SOP: 10 cents
Tier 2 SOP: 19 cents

Tier 1 OP: 13 cents
Tier 2 OP: 27 cents

Tier 1 P: 13 cents
Tier 2 P: 30 cents


All times remain the same, i.e. Midnight to 6 a.m. is SOP, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. weekdays is Peak, and all other times are Off-Peak.

Discuss!

 

[smkettner]

Good to see SOP down close to national anytime rates :roll:

And I think SCE might have finally realized 70 cents summer peak will just encourage more solar rather than conservation.

 

[voltiar]

This is a bad trend. SCE is realizing raising peak rates create large credit for solar, and as more people go solar, SCE generates less income. The problem is really for homeowners who invested thousands of dollars in solar. They have no control over what SCE charges. SCE could start reversing the numbers so SOP is during daylight hours and Peak is at midnight. Who knows? It seems unfair to change the model after their customers invested in them.

SCE benefits every time a home goes solar as it's one less renewable power plant they have to build (1/3rd, mandated by the state).

Didn't they just change the rates in November (to that ridiculous .70 cents summer peak?). Now they lower it by 48%? Interesting that their OFF PEAK rate is the exact same rate as their top TIER 4 rate at .31 cents. Makes no sense. This trend will make solar less attractive in the future. :x

I am really sick of this energy came in Southern California. We pay the highest rates in the country and their is no end in sight. :x :x :x :x

Good to see SOP down close to national anytime rates :roll:

And I think SCE might have finally realized 70 cents summer peak will just encourage more solar rather than conservation.

 

[RLewisCA]

Well, after discovering the new rates this morning, I went back and redid all of my calculations. By the way, I also noticed that they changed all of the rates (residential and TOU-EV-1), not just TOU-D-TEV. So, with the new rates, it actually now makes sense to use the TOU-D-TEV rate for my situation, whereas before, it was not cost efficient to use either the TOU-D-TEV or the TOU-EV-1 rate.

I'm actually glad they realigned the rates for my situation. I can see how this could potentially be troublesome for those that invested in solar, however I don't think the 'worst case' scenario mentioned above (SOP being during daylight, and Peak during the night) would happen, because those rates are largely based on the demand on the grid (demand being highest during the hottest part of the summer day), not the still small percentage of folks that have solar.

Absolutely nothing against solar, but I don't think SCE was out to screw the solar folks with the new rates. I think they were trying to get more people onto TOU rates, and therefore made them more attractive.

 

[hill]

Anyone notice the new TOU-D-TEV rates effective April 1st?? I'm going to have to do my calculations again, however on their face, they appear much more attractive. That's good to hear. ....snip....

We went on TOU and couldn't RUN from it quick enough. In part, because we run lots of home office equipment during the day, and 'she-who-must-be-obeyed- refused to live in a cave-like environment

This is a bad trend. SCE is realizing raising peak rates create large credit for solar, and as more people go solar, SCE generates less income. ....snip....

It's not that dramatic at ALL. For example, I may leave thousand of kWh's of credit on SCE's tab ... generated at the highest tier. But when they true up our account at the end of they year - all they have to pay us is wholesale - which is 2.9 cents/kWh. So you see ... it's actually a windfall for SCE - because SCE will take our high tier kWh's and sell them as such, though they pay us a miniscule amount for powr - just a couple hundred bucks/yr.

.

 

[DaveEV]

SCE benefits every time a home goes solar as it's one less renewable power plant they have to build (1/3rd, mandated by the state).

SCE only benefits from distributed solar if they are paying directly for the electricity. So your typical house/business PV system only shows up as a reduction in demand for them and does not count towards their RPS requirements.

 

[smkettner]

3kW system has been up two days

Curious how soon Edison will show the credit (negative usage) on the daily usage graph. Currently usage just goes to zero. I think I am getting the credit as the month to date amount due seems to be dropping. Will it take a full billing cycle.... or longer?

 

[smkettner]

Day three I get this message:

"Due to a delay in your account billing, your usage details will not be available. Please try again later "

Hopefully this indicates the changes are in progress


Day 4, the hourly usage is shown for the first few days and now stops. Now yesterdays usage was posted late. Still does not show midday credit.

Also received a revised billing. The billing period was shortened 4 days to reflect the day paperwork was submitted to have SCE allow interconnection and turn the system on.

Day 5,6 prior day usage posted but no credit shown.

Day 10 SCE now shows the credits for solar on the daily usage
The bill estimate still seems high but it is just a partial month on solar.

 

[poiuy09]

My first post.
Leased a Leaf SV last month. Have Solar PV and was on netmetering for abt 8 months. Called SCE to switch to TOD-D-TEV three weeks back. They said it will take effect from next billing cycle. But it did not. How long would it take for SCE to switch the rate plans?
I guess all they need to do is push software update remotely to the smart meter.

 

[smkettner]

My switch to the TOU-EV plan started with the next billing cycle. So when you call SCE that billing cycle will continue on schedule D and you will get one more bill under scedule D. The next billing cycle switches to the TOU-EV.

 

[Boomer23]

Just a quick note of congrats to both of you, one for getting solar up and running to help power his LEAF, and the other for getting an EV to make better use if his solar. Great stuff! You'll both be jazzed by the combination of EV and PV, and TOU makes it even better.

 

[pchilds]

What do you think of the new SCE TOU rates? I went from owing $10 to $20 a month to having a surplus of $30+ a month. I will probably run the AC more this summer, because it doesn't pay to have a surplus.

 

[Boomer23]

What do you think of the new SCE TOU rates? I went from owing $10 to $20 a month to having a surplus of $30+ a month. I will probably run the AC more this summer, because it doesn't pay to have a surplus.

If you're on net annual metering, you may need that surplus to offset your net usage in the late fall, winter. You may already have figured that in, and if so, enjoy your extra cool this summer.

As far as what I think of the new rates, the last ones I saw had gone down significantly from the highest ones that they published early this year. At the new rates, we earn less credit during solar Peak hours, but our costs across all tires and times are lower. I haven't felt like doing the math, but for solar owners, it may be a wash. At least with the lower rates, if you run AC more, you're not squandering such highly valuable solar credits as you would have been with the old higher rates.

 

[Randmac]

Called SCE yesterday to switch from domestic TOU to EV TOU and they would not make the change. They require a site planner to inspect things first. So now a planner is supposed to call within the next 5 days to set an appt. I told them the planner will have to inspect without me during weekdays. Anybody else have to go through this?

 

[Boomer23]

Called SCE yesterday to switch from domestic TOU to EV TOU and they would not make the change. They require a site planner to inspect things first. So now a planner is supposed to call within the next 5 days to set an appt. I told them the planner will have to inspect without me during weekdays. Anybody else have to go through this?

I didn't have to go through that, but that was in 2010. I was on domestic TOU with Net Metering, and I just made the call when I got my LEAF and they changed me to EV TOU without a problem. But that was then. I was early in the curve, and they may have changed policies now, with the concern that multiple neighbors may have EVs.

Had you notified them earlier that you were getting an EV? They want to know who is getting one so that they can scope out your neighborhood and see if their transformers will get overloaded if too many EVs try to charge at the same time.

 

[smkettner]

Called SCE yesterday to switch from domestic TOU to EV TOU and they would not make the change. They require a site planner to inspect things first. So now a planner is supposed to call within the next 5 days to set an appt. I told them the planner will have to inspect without me during weekdays. Anybody else have to go through this?

IIRC I had the same response. Never saw the guy but SCE still needed to change out my meter to do TOU and they put a sticker on the main panel cover that says "120/240" must be some secret code :lol:

Two weeks later SCE was doing the entire street with the new smart meters. Had to tell the guy don't bother :roll: