Official Tesla Model S thread

[LTLFTcomposite]

Getting ready to start deliveries early:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-deliver-sedan-earlier-expected-211106165.html?l=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The first official Tesla internal range and efficiency data are discussed on Tesla's internal blog about the Model S today.

Lots of interesting stuff to read there. My most important takeaway was that for the 85 kWh battery pack, a Model S driven at 70 mph would get a range of about 240 miles, about 80% of Tesla's nameplate for that pack of 300 miles. At a constant 55 mph, their data claim a range of slightly more than 300 miles. Quite impressive.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The larger and heavier, S 85 gets somewhat lower m/kWh than a LEAF, at all speeds.

The S 85 range at actual California left-lane freeway speeds, is close to 200 miles, depending on grades and climate control use.

A good illustration, that increasing battery capacity of any ~20 kWh available BEV by about four times, will only about triple the range, and more than double the price.

I think I'll probably stick with 20-30 kWh BEVs, and wait for fast charging, thanks.

that means the price of batteries is going down...or more likely, the profit percentage on the larger packs is smaller. guessing Tesla is only making a very small profit on the higher pack sizes.

but add the almost required QC options and the price is nearly tripled the Leaf after incentives

 

[tbleakne]

The first official Tesla internal range and efficiency data are discussed on Tesla's internal blog about the Model S today.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This site is great car porn. The 60 kW standard model would be plenty of capacity for me, but I would want many of the options. The glass roof sounds great. I would need the Tech package just for the GPS navigation. +3.75 K$ for not too much more than comes standard with the LEAF.

The biggest downside for me, beside the price, is Testla's apparent complete rejection of either CHAdemo or SAE QC standards. Do they say otherwise ? Unlike the Roadster, it seems you can't take full advantage of their 70A 240V AC charging stations without the optional 2nd 10 kW charger.

 

[kmp647]

I read the EPA window milage will be 265 on the first model S cars with the big pack

265 miles

Meaning some will get 170 and some will get 300 plus

Still covers lots of driving!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

...
The biggest downside for me, beside the price, is Testla's apparent complete rejection of either CHAdemo or SAE QC standards. ...

It's going to be very interesting real soon with the west coast green highway close to completion here in WA and OR... DC QC's every 25-40 miles along Interstate 5, out to Levinworth as well in WA and out to the coast as well in OR. Charging stations that the S won't be able to use... huge bummer as we would consider it otherwise. Aside from practicality issues, it's just bad sportsmanship for Tesla to take an exclusive route. If instead they through their weight behind CHAdeMO it could help speed up the acceptance of a single QC standard and thus EV's in general. Also, whatever QC's Tesla puts together, everyone else will be locked out. Bad all the way around.

 

[evnow]

Also, whatever QC's Tesla puts together, everyone else will be locked out. Bad all the way around.

Musk thinks he is the Jobs of the EV world. That means proprietary formats too.

Tesla is all about status & exclusivity. Infact some in the Tesla forum were even against the 40 kWh base model using the "superchargers" !

BTW, in the recent financial call Musk said they will soon have an announcement about QC - wonder what it is.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

good analogy and can't wait for the QC announcement. I would be tempted to hope that Musk will come up with something as reliable and rock solid as OSX and powerbooks and as ground breaking for multiple industries as the iPod, iPhone and iPad, but it's not like the rest of us are forced to rely on a product that crashes all the time. Fortunately there are plenty of solid, reliable options for charging stations other than Ecotality/Blink. I just don't see a viable argument for fixing something that ain't broke, except that maybe the batteries Tesla is using have limited charging requirements, hopefully the S pack is more than a bunch of cell phone batteries. What we need more than the perfect Quick Charger is simply lots more of them, enough to make EV's a viable alternative for a much larger swath of the public and we need them now! People aren't looking for a car that meets most of their needs, they are looking for a car that meets virtually all of their needs including occasional long distance travel, and a vast Quick Charging network could make that a reality very quickly, but the industry sorely needs critical mass. The Tesla S, if CHAdeMO compatible, would be able to go all over the Northwest in just a few months... Let's hope that announcement is that it's going to come with a CHAdeMO adapter!!!!!! With the QC network about to open in one of the largest EV markets in the country, selling a car that is not CHAdeMO compatible seems like marketing suicide to me.

Also, whatever QC's Tesla puts together, everyone else will be locked out. Bad all the way around.

Musk thinks he is the Jobs of the EV world. That means proprietary formats too.

Tesla is all about status & exclusivity. Infact some in the Tesla forum were even against the 40 kWh base model using the "superchargers" !

BTW, in the recent financial call Musk said they will soon have an announcement about QC - wonder what it is.

 

[palmermd]

Blink that is proving quite reliable.

Never thought I'd ever see that sentence.

 

[Boomer23]

Blink that is proving quite reliable.

Never thought I'd ever see that sentence.

:lol: :lol: You took that out of context, or were you kidding? The original sentence was "Fortunately there is plenty of solid competition for Ecotality/Blink that is proving quite reliable."

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

ooof! Thanks Boomer23, yes, context is everything. I edited it to be clear. my point is that we are not in a mac vs PC world when it comes to choices of charging stations, though I have found public blinks to be about as buggy as windows :lol:

Blink that is proving quite reliable.

Never thought I'd ever see that sentence.

:lol: :lol: You took that out of context, or were you kidding? The original sentence was "Fortunately there is plenty of solid competition for Ecotality/Blink that is proving quite reliable."

 

[Herm]

Tesla is all about status & exclusivity. Infact some in the Tesla forum were even against the 40 kWh base model using the "superchargers" !

A Tesla owner does not really want to see a Leaf or iMiev clogging up their fast charger. Get a car with a bigger battery if you need the range!

 

[evnow]

A Tesla owner does not really want to see a Leaf or iMiev clogging up their fast charger. Get a car with a bigger battery if you need the range!

Exactly. Some of those folks really live in an ivory tower.

Funny thing is most of them are also convinced S can be sold in 10s of thousands every year without any problem.

 

[tbleakne]

Tesla is all about status & exclusivity. Infact some in the Tesla forum were even against the 40 kWh base model using the "superchargers" !

It looks like the 40 kWh pack cannot, in fact, use the "superchargers." If so, they got their wish. Right now even the 60 kWh pack's access to super-charging is TBD. I understand that the kW rate at which a pack can be charged is proportional to its size, so the smaller pack would not be able to charge as fast as the 85 kWh pack, but it does seem very elitist for the 40 kWh pack to not support QC at all.

The dual 10kW AC charger option is available for all 3 battery sizes, but how prevalent will that power be? I have only been able to locate a few Tesla charging locations that have 70A, which is not enough for 2 X 10 kW.

It seems possible/likely that all 3 packs use different length series strings of the same battery modules. If so, the battery voltage scales with size. Perhaps the resulting large span of voltages makes it hard to support QC across all 3 packs. It this is true, they could offer just the 40 kWh pack with CHAdemo/SAE access for the "little people" like me.

 

[Electric4Me]

ABG posted these tidbits on the Model S today:

George Blankenship, has declared June 22 - just one month away - as the day when the first Model S will be delivered.

Perhaps most exciting, the Model S will now feature adjustable regenerative brakes, which is something we certainly like to see in our EVs. For highway driving, having the brakes grab hold each time we take our foot off the accelerator is annoying, so we look forward to seeing just how much "coasting" the Model S will allow. Blankenship writes that, "Having less Regen means you will likely get less range, but some people still prefer the feel of their car with less Regen." We can't wait until some inspired hypermiler decides to test this for him- or herself. The resistance in the steering wheel and the car's suspension can also be adjusted.

Pretty cool!

And:

UPDATE: Tesla CEO Elon Musk has Tweeted the following: "Major Tesla milestone: All crash testing is complete for 5* (max) safety rating. Cars can now be built for sale to public!"

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/05/2...eries-will-start-june-22-regen-brake-level-n/

 

[GRA]

<snip>
It seems possible/likely that all 3 packs use different length series strings of the same battery modules. If so, the battery voltage scales with size. Perhaps the resulting large span of voltages makes it hard to support QC across all 3 packs. It this is true, they could offer just the 40 kWh pack with CHAdemo/SAE access for the "little people" like me.

The small and medium packs use the same chemistry. The 85 kW pack does not (it's apparently Li-Si), and is approximately the same weight and size as the 60kW pack.

 

[LEAFfan]

The 85kW h pack has a rating of 320 miles. Under the 2-cycle EPA test it was driven 55% city and 45% hwy, but I don't know the speeds.

 

[DrInnovation]

The 85kW h pack has a rating of 320 miles. Under the 2-cycle EPA test it was driven 55% city and 45% hwy, but I don't know the speeds.

EPA test are summarized here
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
City cycle average speed is 21mph, Highway cycle is 48.3


And FYI, the 85kWh pack is now stated to rated at only 265miles by EPA, e.g. see
http://www.insideline.com/tesla/model-s/tesla-moves-up-model-s-launch-to-june.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and discussions like

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/300-mi-now-265-mi-after-epa-test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And from the previous page of this thread
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2429&start=183" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomMoloughney]

The 85kW h pack has a rating of 320 miles. Under the 2-cycle EPA test it was driven 55% city and 45% hwy, but I don't know the speeds.

EPA test are summarized here
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
City cycle average speed is 21mph, Highway cycle is 48.3


And FYI, the 85kWh pack is now stated to rated at only 265miles by EPA

That is correct. Under the 2 cycle EPA test it achieved a 320 mile range but using the more stringent EPA 5 cycle test which includes cold soaking the battery and higher highway speeds the range was 265 miles. The new EPA 5 cycle test is what is now used for the window sticker.

 

[Stoaty]

And FYI, the 85kWh pack is now stated to rated at only 265miles by EPA, e.g. see
http://www.insideline.com/tesla/model-s/tesla-moves-up-model-s-launch-to-june.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well duh. If you change to a different test (5 cycle vs. 2 cycle) you are going to get different numbers. Still gets over 300 miles on the 2 cycle test:

"We are very pleased to report that Model S has exceeded our initial range expectations by about 20 miles and has achieved a Roadster equivalent 2-cycle range of 320 miles and a 5-cycle range of 265 miles. This sets a new record for electric vehicle range!"

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GRA]

And FYI, the 85kWh pack is now stated to rated at only 265miles by EPA, e.g. see
http://www.insideline.com/tesla/model-s/tesla-moves-up-model-s-launch-to-june.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well duh. If you change to a different test (5 cycle vs. 2 cycle) you are going to get different numbers. Still gets over 300 miles on the 2 cycle test:

"We are very pleased to report that Model S has exceeded our initial range expectations by about 20 miles and has achieved a Roadster equivalent 2-cycle range of 320 miles and a 5-cycle range of 265 miles. This sets a new record for electric vehicle range!"

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, the 320 mile range was at 55 mph, and that's hardly likely to be the cruising speed chosen by a Tesla owner on the freeway. 240 @ 70mph is what Tesla's range graph shows. Still a big improvement over any other BEV, but it ought to be at that price.