Official Tesla Model S thread

[qwk]

I simply cannot believe you are comparing tire wear on a car with 4 times the power, and 21" wheels that gets flogged daily by many different drivers, to an econobox. That is simply nuts.

 

[gaswalla]

The tires would last forever on a Model S if one drove it like a LEAF

 

[evnow]

One thing for sure - I'd never buy a Model S out of warranty. Simply too unreliable. We'll end up spending a "econobox" Leaf or 2 on warranty.

 

[GeekEV]

One thing for sure - I'd never buy a Model S out of warranty. Simply too unreliable. We'll end up spending a "econobox" Leaf or 2 on warranty.

I don't know how simple it is. I've not had any major problems with mine, nor have a lot of people. What problems I have had were little things like window regulators, etc. Some have had other more major issues, sure, but you know how things get blown out of proportion on the Internet. I suspect the overall percentage is comparable to other cars. Only Tesla knows for sure.

 

[qwk]

One thing for sure - I'd never buy a Model S out of warranty. Simply too unreliable. We'll end up spending a "econobox" Leaf or 2 on warranty.

I don't know how simple it is. I've not had any major problems with mine, nor have a lot of people. What problems I have had were little things like window regulators, etc. Some have had other more major issues, sure, but you know how things get blown out of proportion on the Internet. I suspect the overall percentage is comparable to other cars. Only Tesla knows for sure.

It's very simple to work on. The coolant pumps are under the frunk(10 minutes to take out frunk tub), the charger(s), and HV box are under the rear seat, the charge port is behing a rear inside panel, and the drive unit/entire suspension drops out of the bottom pretty easily. The biggest hurdle is getting parts, as every SC does things differently. The parts are also not that cheap, but there are a ton of used parts to be had for a reasonable price, since a lot of Model S cars get wrecked and totalled.

I have 22k miles on mine, and have only had minor things that needed repaired. Still on the original tires.

 

[evnow]

I don't know how simple it is. I've not had any major problems with mine, nor have a lot of people. What problems I have had were little things like window regulators, etc. Some have had other more major issues, sure, but you know how things get blown out of proportion on the Internet. I suspect the overall percentage is comparable to other cars. Only Tesla knows for sure.

True everything gets blown out of proportion in the internet age - still I've not heard of (m)any drive train replacements on Leaf, for eg. Ofcourse, battery degradation affected a small % of owners - that got blown out of proportion, too.

Also look at RAV4EV drive train issues.

To me that shows, Tesla is yet to grow up and mature as a reliable car maker. I'm fairly sure - if you take a major OEM - their major component replacement rate under warranty would be smaller than Tesla's. Infact, I remember reading somewhere that even just a couple of non-major warranty claims can wipe out the margin on a new car for the OEM.

It is possible Tesla's reliability compares with other small car makers like Porche.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Just wondering. What might happen to Model S values when a 200 mile, $40k Model III arrives. Still a better car, but worth an extra $40-60k for an extra 100 miles? Or maybe the S will deliver 400-600 miles by then?

 

[GeekEV]

Simply too unreliable.

I don't know how simple it is.

It's very simple to work on.

I was referring to the premise that it is too unreliable.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

So I have a theory about EVs in general as pertains to that milling issue. When you advertise a car can do 0-60 in four seconds, you don't really think people will accelerate that fast very often. But no manufacturer I know of says anything about limiting how often you can "enjoy" that capability without damaging the car or voiding the warranty. In a gas car with all the noise and shifting it's not all that pleasant, but in an EV it's tempting to step on it in more situations. The result may be some really stressed drive line components.

 

[TomT]

Actually, I can think of at least one that does... The 2015 Mustang has launch control. However, it clearly states that if you use too often (I forget the exact number), the warranty is void.

But no manufacturer I know of says anything about limiting how often you can "enjoy" that capability without damaging the car or voiding the warranty.

 

[TomT]

The S is in a different class so I don't expect one to have that much affect on the other... It is like saying that a C class MB decreases the resale value of an S class, or a 3 series BMW, a 7 series......

Just wondering. What might happen to Model S values when a 200 mile, $40k Model III arrives. Still a better car, but worth an extra $40-60k for an extra 100 miles? Or maybe the S will deliver 400-600 miles by then?

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Yes, valid point. And yet, will EV values conform to that model totally, or will range play a larger roll? Maybe it won't matter if all EVs end up in a 300 mile range eventually, and so that class paradigm will apply in the same way as now.

OT, but, if they can upgrade a Roadster to 400 mile range (how? It's not that big) what could they upgrade an S or III to?

The S is in a different class so I don't expect one to have that much affect on the other... It is like saying that a C class MB decreases the resale value of an S class, or a 3 series BMW, a 7 series......

Just wondering. What might happen to Model S values when a 200 mile, $40k Model III arrives. Still a better car, but worth an extra $40-60k for an extra 100 miles? Or maybe the S will deliver 400-600 miles by then?

 

[GRA]

Yes, valid point. And yet, will EV values conform to that model totally, or will range play a larger roll? Maybe it won't matter if all EVs end up in a 300 mile range eventually, and so that class paradigm will apply in the same way as now.

OT, but, if they can upgrade a Roadster to 400 mile range (how? It's not that big) what could they upgrade an S or III to?

The Roadster used LiCoO2 batteries. The NCA chemistry used by the Model S has considerably better energy density, and (I believe) better thermal stability, so they can gain considerable range inside the same weight/volume without being more dangerous. Maybe they won't need to run the cooling fans as much either. Per Tesla, the energy density of the Roadster pack is 121Wh/kg (they list the LEAF's pack at 79Wh/kg).

 

[evnow]

The S is in a different class so I don't expect one to have that much affect on the other... It is like saying that a C class MB decreases the resale value of an S class, or a 3 series BMW, a 7 series......

I think it'll
- some people will get m 3 instead of used S
- some won't get S because of fear of SC congressional

 

[palmermd]

- some won't get S because of fear of SC congressional

what's the deal with the south carolina congress?

 

[donald]

The S is in a different class so I don't expect one to have that much affect on the other... It is like saying that a C class MB decreases the resale value of an S class, or a 3 series BMW, a 7 series......

Well, that rather depends on whether you view the Model S as in a higher class, rather than just being a bigger, aero-styled blancmange car to accommodate more batteries.

Sorry, I did not feel the fit and finish in the Model S I have seen to be remotely in S Class/7 Series territory. I'd struggle to imagine what a class or two lower than the interior of a Model S would feel like. Stylistically, the single huge screen is ghastly, and it did not help that I found it uncomfortably cramped my knee-room.

There seem to be an awful lot of apologists for the Model S here. I'm sorry, but just because a company honours all the warranty claims, having more than one in 10 of your cars come back to the dealer for remedial work outside of normal servicing is just a plain bad launch that, I imagine, would ordinarily see the demotion of the brand managers involved. Bad launches have generally been indicative of reliability issues later in life for ICE and I see no real reason why it'd be different for EVs. More than 1 in 100 coming back for the same fault within the warranty period is a design fault issue, and in 'normal' circumstances would cascade back into the 1st tier suppliers requiring an immediate containment of the fault and rectification programme.

 

[swaltner]

- some won't get S because of fear of SC congressional

what's the deal with the south carolina congress?

I think that's a bad auto-correction of "SC congestion" (Supercharger congestion)...

 

[mkjayakumar]

Stylistically, the single huge screen is ghastly

Don't own one, but love the screen. Great form and function.

Not disputing any of your other points.

 

[mikeEmike]

There seem to be an awful lot of apologists for the Model S here. I'm sorry, but just because a company honours all the warranty claims, having more than one in 10 of your cars come back to the dealer for remedial work outside of normal servicing is just a plain bad launch that, I imagine, would ordinarily see the demotion of the brand managers involved. Bad launches have generally been indicative of reliability issues later in life for ICE and I see no real reason why it'd be different for EVs. More than 1 in 100 coming back for the same fault within the warranty period is a design fault issue, and in 'normal' circumstances would cascade back into the 1st tier suppliers requiring an immediate containment of the fault and rectification programme.

If you think you can do a better job launching a car as revolutionary as the Model S, be my guest. I'd love to have another option for a vehicle that can replace an ICE for something other than commuting. I know that I wouldn't have been as successful as they were. A "bad" launch is better than no launch at all, which probably would have been the case if Tesla waited on a perfect v1.0 Model S...and there wouldn't have been a v2.0 Model S, or a Model X, or anything else from Tesla because their doors would be been shut because they would have run out of money.

I had to have my OBC replaced on my LEAF because it was an early model 2011, which had a demonstrable design flaw (inadequate noise filtering). I had to endure months of stonewalling from Nissan before they finally replaced it (which, without the help from those on this forum, I would have given up on). I am forgiving of Nissan in regard to the design flaw because this was a v1.0 for them, and they are going to make mistakes early on, but I am not so forgiving of them for their lack of support in standing behind their product in this case. I am fairly certain from what I read on Tesla's forums that this would not have been the case if I was dealing with Tesla.

 

[donald]

If you think you can do a better job launching a car as revolutionary as the Model S, be my guest.

Such a ridiculous comment.

I hold a 'proper' opinion of Tesla in my rightful capacity as a potential consumer. I do not need to make, or be able to make, cars before I feel I can critique a car maker.

On your basis we [presumably you don't make many cars yourself, either?] can't even critique Yugos or Ladas?

Musk has done fantastically well with his Model S given the starting point he came from, and I'll be the first to admit it. That being said, if I was launching a car I would not cause such big rifts with people like Eberhard (did Drori leave, or was he pushed?), I'd not have left it to pure chance that the DoE would give me a loan at the 11th hour of my business going bust, and I'd not have called in all my customers just before delivery to say the price has gone up and they can have their deposits back if they don't like the new price!

Musk has definitely shown the way with Tesla, but it remains a start-up on tender-hooks. It is still a company that has to turn a profit, and that includes not only sales income but also deductions for all and any warranty claims. It may sound wonderful that he will happily replace a $15k drive-train component 3 times per car, but what profit did he then make on those cars, and how will the company survive?

I don't like the sound of any car company spending large fractions of the purchase price of their cars on fault fixing each and every one. It is clearly a recipe for a commercial disaster.

I would have considered buying a 2nd hand Tesla at the limits of my meagre resources, but not now, unless it comes with a bullet-proof 8 yr warrant, and right now I am no better than 80% convinced the company will exist in 8 years.