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qwk said:
I would venture to say that there are very few people charging their Model S cars with the J1772 adapter at more than 30A. In 15k miles, I have used in 0 times. Just wait, time will tell who is right.

I built a 75A OpenEVSE, I have the ITT 75A cable/connector on it. My OpenEVSE is wired with #3 copper THHN to a 100A circuit breaker, uses a SquareD contactor.. I charge my Model S (with dual chargers) at 75A all the time. I bought an extra Model S to J-1772 adapter, that's left on the J-1772 handle in the garage. No issues at all, I am not alone, Chris Howell (OpenEVSE) also has built a high power EVSE as well, for his Model S.. There are others as well.
 
More on the Ss Nordic "Charging ****", in an article, and in a long laundry list of complaints against Tesla posted by a Norwegian Tesla owner at the Tesla forum thread on-topic.

Last week it got cold in Norway for the first time this year, really cold.

And for some Tesla Model S owners looking to go to work last Monday, they found that their new Model S sedans, in conjunction with the Tesla provided portable UMC (universal mobile connector), are having some trouble getting a charge.

The problem was first noted by a few owners in December, but this latest cold snap seems to have expanded the issue to a much wider base. Tesla acknowledge the problem and made a statement over the weekend:

“We’re trying hard to resolve this,” Peter Bardenfleth-Hansen, Tesla’s sales chief for the Nordic and Benelux countries and the UK, told Dagens Næringsliv. “We’re sorry, and don’t like how Norwegian customers are suffering.”

The root of the problem seems to be that the UMC doesn’t hold the charge connection in cold weather. It seems that the Tesla supplied equipment can’t deal with the deadly combination of Norwegian power grid and very cold temperatures...

http://insideevs.com/norwegian-winter-and-its-grid-is-powering-down-the-tesla-model-s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

fredag:

We are not new to EVs in Norway. We have quite extensive experience with EVs for a long time. Other brands of EVs don't have these problems with charging. Model S seems to be very fussy about what kind of electricity it gets fed with. And it's not like it was a total surprise for Tesla that large parts of the Norwegian electricity grid is unique and grounding is challenging.

One thing I noticed immediately when I got the car, long before winter started, was that charging won't always start, and you can't trust the charging port LEDs. That's a bug in my opinion. Even though the LEDs glow green, the screen may say "Charging will start momentarily" and the amps will not count up. I always check the screen to see if the car is actually charging. If it doesn't I unplug the UMC again and again until it starts to charge. Not very satisfactory to have to do this on a premium car.

When using the UMC, after charging is finished the LEDs sometimes are red. For many Norwegians, the LEDs are always red after charging. When the LEDs are red, it seems the 12V battery is being drained. This means Norwegians who use the UMC have to make sure to unplug quickly after the car is finished charging, to avoid 12V problems.

When the weather forcast says it'll get freezing, I've learned to take the UMC indoors to warm up before charging. On my other EV, a Mitsubishi i-Miev, I've never had to do anything like that. The i-Miev will charge in -25 C without any problems. When the temperature is stable below freezing, the UMC seems to be OK outside.

I have set up three 16A schuko sockets and two 32A blue sockets for charging my car at home, to be able to have parking flexibility. One of these sockets have grounding problems in wet weather, and the UMC is noticably more unstable when using that socket. I think many Norwegians may have similar problems with their outdoor sockets without them knowing, and this may be part of the problem people have with charging when the temperature is around 0 C.


One of my colleagues says the latest software causes his charging current to fluctuate down and up. He thinks voltage fluctuations on the local power grid caused by the stress winter heating places on the grid, triggers the latest Model S software to think there's something wrong with his power, causing current to be reduced.


Freezing charge ports are always frustrating. It's a problem on other EVs, and it's a problem with Model S also. The credit card trick doesn't work when the temperature is colder than -5 C, so I've started to thaw the charging port with a plastic bag filled with hot water for a few minutes until the charging port opens. On the Norwegian forum there have been reports of people who have an hair dryer with them in the car, to be able to thaw the charging port while on the road. Maybe there should have been a built in charge port heater, or a more elegant way to force the charge port lid open? It's not that easy to fill a plastic bag with hot water everywhere when charging on the road.


I'm sad to say Tesla isn't exactly living by "underpromise and overdeliver" in Norway. It's more like "overpromise and underdeliver" actually.

Tesla didn't deliver the winter wheels at the time of delivery as is customary, nor by the winter wheel changeover deadline November 1st. Worse, they did not answer any questions regarding winters wheels by phone, email or even face to face in the shops. Very frustrating to deal with that kind of behaviour from a car dealer. It wouldn't have been difficult for them to send out emails to their customers. Rumour has it (I don't know if it's true) Tesla Norway bought 1000 sets of rims(!) for winter wheels with wrong dimensions, totally unusable. And Tesla didn't secure their order for winter tyres from the Nokian distributor properly, as other older Nokian customers had delivery priority over Tesla, causing shortages in the market. Afterwards, Tesla has reportedly been threatening to refuse warranty cover to those who bought third party rims.

It took months before the Tesla iPhone and android app became available in the app stores. The app was available in the app stores of all of the EU (minus UK and Ireland) plus Switzerland and Iceland, but not in Norway. After a while it became kinda insulting to see that the app was available in the Romanian app store, but not in their largest European market.

Most Norwegian Model S customers have not yet received anything but the slowest UMC-adapter, the 3kW schuko socket adapter. Most of us has not yet received the adapter for blue 32A sockets (7kW) and the adapter for red 3x16A sockets (11kW), even after 3-4 months. This kind of limits the usability of the UMC. No communication from Tesla about when we can expect to get the adapters. They could have sent an email to their customers about the status for these due items. Many Norwegians who drive longer distances daily have had to buy third party charging solutions to be able to use the car in the way they intended. Now Tesla is reported to be telling customers that they may refuse warranty cover to those who use third party charging solutions!

When I got the car in September I could charge at mode3 type2 charging stations at 3x32A. These charging stations are created to supply 3x32A safely. Now the car is lobotomized to only charge at 3x26A. So much for the car getting better and better with every software update.

We have DAB digital radio in Norway, and FM is supposed to be switched off in 2017. DAB digital radio in the Model S is a mess. The user interface is hopeless. The name of DAB frequency blocks are completely uninteresting for the radio user, and should be completely hidden from the user. Having to select a channel from a pulldown meny is not very good user interface in a car. Worse, the DAB radio channel will randomly jump to another channel every couple of minutes. Even worse, if you have been using DAB on a trip but give up due to the annoying channel jumping, and start to listen to music from your iphone instead, the car will randomly jump back to DAB digital radio from time to time. (I really wish I could get Spotify integrated in the media player. It's kinda dangerous to change playlists on the little iPhone screen on the phone while driving.)

The first and most important part of good customer service is to actually deliver the products the customer ordered on time, and make sure they work reliably. Tesla Norway sell more cars than most Tesla stores in the world, which is bound to test the organization, workflows, scalability of their IT systems/CRMs, customer communication etc. If Tesla actually starts to refuse warranty cover I'll start to warn people about buying Teslas.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26085-Many-owners-with-UMC-problems-in-Norway-specially-during-cold-weather/page8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
This video should be used as rebuttal to anyone who still thinks EVs have to be slow, expensive golf carts :lol: :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_UV08thMyI&feature=youtube_gdata_player" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
mitch672 said:
qwk said:
I would venture to say that there are very few people charging their Model S cars with the J1772 adapter at more than 30A. In 15k miles, I have used in 0 times. Just wait, time will tell who is right.

I built a 75A OpenEVSE, I have the ITT 75A cable/connector on it. My OpenEVSE is wired with #3 copper THHN to a 100A circuit breaker, uses a SquareD contactor.. I charge my Model S (with dual chargers) at 75A all the time. I bought an extra Model S to J-1772 adapter, that's left on the J-1772 handle in the garage. No issues at all, I am not alone, Chris Howell (OpenEVSE) also has built a high power EVSE as well, for his Model S.. There are others as well.


I have a 75 amp OpenEVSE also, with the 75 amp ITT plug. It's sad that ITT (Leviton) has discontinued making all their plugs, and now sells just a Yazaki 30 amp plug/wire assembly. They still sell the 15 amp ITT ones, presumably until they run out.

I just had the pleasure of a second ITT 75 plug, plus three phase 75 amp Square D relay, show up at my door. In my garage will be could be two 75 amp units, but honestly, I think I need to go to a 400 amp box for my house.
 
Had not seen this start up for renting/car sharing Tesla S sedans before but they do list Chicago as one launch city (we see LOTS of model S's around); don't know much about them but would be nice if they became a reality for my area ... $39/hour a bit steep but after all most are in the luxury car category; a sign up of email gets one a 'free' first hour


http://launch.vukee-car.com/?lrRef=tYgjD5


http://inhabitat.com/vukee-car-launches-the-worlds-first-tesla-car-sharing-program/

vukee-car-537x312.jpg
 
mkjayakumar said:
That picture has the green charge bar around 3/4 ths full, but the rated range says only 95 miles ?

Maybe the pic is of a 40 kw Tesla. There aren't a ton of them but they do exist and the rated range drops if the cells are out of balance.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26802-For-those-owners-unhappy-with-drop-in-maximum-charged-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have been extremely concerned for a while now about the very significant loss of maximum charging range in my 40kwh car. I am down from the initial 141 mile max rated range upon delivery to a 120 mile range, a decrease of approximately 15% after 9000 miles of driving.

The theory is that they can just charge to 100% a few times and/or leave it plugged in for a day or two straight to get it to balance the cells and increase the rated range.

Tesla will also change the firmware to better manage the issue. So yes Virginia, even Teslas have a guessometer.
 
Great article here on the issues facing Tesla as it attempts to grow from a niche to a mass market car company:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140113/OEM/301139981/audacious-growth-plans-will-stretch-tesla-beyond-its-comfort-zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
GRA said:
Great article here on the issues facing Tesla as it attempts to grow from a niche to a mass market car company:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140113/OEM/301139981/audacious-growth-plans-will-stretch-tesla-beyond-its-comfort-zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty good article. At least this one provided some balance with comments from Elon. Clearly the other auto maker executives don't understand Tesla. I think they might be backed into a corner by Tesla if they progress anywhere near the rates they are targeting.

This commenter is long on TSLA.
 
Indeed, it looks to be shaping up for a serious "short squeeze" as they say on wall street. Tesla is making great strides with the growing S market, the game changer though, IMHO, is the likelihood of a sudden change in perception of the S's capability with the super fast expansion of the super charging networkhttp://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger. The red dots are adding to the coast to coast, border to border sprawl, daily. between the development in the S and the achievements in the global "free for life" charging network, it's starting to feel like Tesla's to win, like they are a good decade ahead of the anything else out there.

palmermd said:
GRA said:
Great article here on the issues facing Tesla as it attempts to grow from a niche to a mass market car company:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140113/OEM/301139981/audacious-growth-plans-will-stretch-tesla-beyond-its-comfort-zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty good article. At least this one provided some balance with comments from Elon. Clearly the other auto maker executives don't understand Tesla. I think they might be backed into a corner by Tesla if they progress anywhere near the rates they are targeting.

This commenter is long on TSLA.
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
... development in the S and the achievements in the global "free for life" charging network, it's starting to feel like Tesla's to win, like they are a good decade ahead of the anything else out there.

Don't count out the GM / German Frankenplug consortium yet!!!! They may hit 10 charge stations in 2014, and over 100 Frankenplug equipped, less than 100 mile range cars!!!

Remember, Tesla and Nissan are "niche" players according to GM.
 
BMW will make the frankenplug a freebie for the electronaut customers, so there should be more than 100.
the question is,
Will the electronaut customers actually know what their lease rates are before they lease? by tomorrow?
A new term courtesy of BMW
Lease Anxiety
 
The numbers in that article are sobering. You can tell in the opening quotes from Musk. He knows that selling to the choir is one thing, selling to the masses is an entirely different thing altogether.

The comparison between them and Apple, one that's often used by Tesla owners and enthusiasts has always puzzled me. It is no comparison at all. Because even if one person gets another to buy an Iphone, it's only so many hundreds of dollars, can be shipped in two days and can be returned for full refund if not satisfied.

A car cannot be returned once purchased (leased perhaps but you're still locked into the lease), it takes weeks if not months to build, has a significantly higher price, and depreciates considerably.

I disagree with Musk with his standing firm of the current retail model. I don't believe you can sell such a high priced item at the projected sales of 250,000 cars, at what is basically a Mall kiosk. They would become like cell phone wagons and Thomas Kinkade stores. Only without a product to give you.

And you can sit in a display car all you want but people are going to expect a test drive. And to count on everyone driving their friend's car to be convinced to buy is, in my opinion, folly. It will be here that Musk's stubbornness may come to a collision with reality.

As the article pointed out, the network required for service for this many cars sold per year will require far better logistics than Rangers with trailers.

But there's also the issue of competing technologies which I feel may doom Tesla more than charging stations, service centers and a battery factory issues. Natural gas and hydrogen are making inroads, albeit in early stages. Since EV production/sales is still in almost insignificant numbers comparatively to petrol cars, Tesla may never finish the race simply because in ten years, people could find that natural gas and hydrogen to be the preferred method of fueling and propulsion, not battery electricity.
 
Train said:
I disagree with Musk with his standing firm of the current retail model. I don't believe you can sell such a high priced item at the projected sales of 250,000 cars, at what is basically a Mall kiosk. They would become like cell phone wagons and Thomas Kinkade stores. Only without a product to give you.

And you can sit in a display car all you want but people are going to expect a test drive. And to count on everyone driving their friend's car to be convinced to buy is, in my opinion, folly. It will be here that Musk's stubbornness may come to a collision with reality.

As the article pointed out, the network required for service for this many cars sold per year will require far better logistics than Rangers with trailers.
IMO much of this becomes more efficient as it scales up. Example, Rangers will work more efficiently in a smaller radius.

To get to the 250,000 the price point will need to drop.

Right now it is hard to justify a fleet of demo vehicles when every car off the line is spoken for. So a kiosk is fine for now. When Tesla has 20,000 unsold vehicles it will be time to build/lease some showrooms with product ready to roll.

Just as the ramp up in production looks like it is unstoppable I fear Musk will be on to another project. Although I hope he sees it through to the end and let Tesla be his legacy.
 
I dont think you go to the trouble of redesigning the car industry from the ground up....but repeat the old school model of creating a huge backlog of unsold inventory that you then need to discount and beg people to come to the dealership to be fleeced by an uneducated yob pretending to be an "expert". Cars are a a fairly expensive capital good that for the most part should really be made to order.
 
Train misunderstands the business model.

Tesla has no plans for selling 250,000 EVs at the current price point. The third gen will be much cheaper.

But the bigger misunderstanding is the stores.
At all of them, outside Texas, you can get a test drive. At some of the service centers you can as well.
 
They are opening a gallery at the mall here in Boca and will have demo cars according to published reports. That was a big sticking point they had to work out, since car dealers are not permitted in Boca.
 
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