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Some interesting tidbits on the S, X and other things...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090225_elon-musk-talks-tesla-model-x-details-model-s-upgrades-at-europe-qa-sessions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Train said:
The numbers in that article are sobering. You can tell in the opening quotes from Musk. He knows that selling to the choir is one thing, selling to the masses is an entirely different thing altogether.

The comparison between them and Apple, one that's often used by Tesla owners and enthusiasts has always puzzled me. It is no comparison at all. Because even if one person gets another to buy an Iphone, it's only so many hundreds of dollars, can be shipped in two days and can be returned for full refund if not satisfied.

A car cannot be returned once purchased (leased perhaps but you're still locked into the lease), it takes weeks if not months to build, has a significantly higher price, and depreciates considerably.

I disagree with Musk with his standing firm of the current retail model. I don't believe you can sell such a high priced item at the projected sales of 250,000 cars, at what is basically a Mall kiosk. They would become like cell phone wagons and Thomas Kinkade stores. Only without a product to give you.

And you can sit in a display car all you want but people are going to expect a test drive. And to count on everyone driving their friend's car to be convinced to buy is, in my opinion, folly. It will be here that Musk's stubbornness may come to a collision with reality.

As the article pointed out, the network required for service for this many cars sold per year will require far better logistics than Rangers with trailers.

But there's also the issue of competing technologies which I feel may doom Tesla more than charging stations, service centers and a battery factory issues. Natural gas and hydrogen are making inroads, albeit in early stages. Since EV production/sales is still in almost insignificant numbers comparatively to petrol cars, Tesla may never finish the race simply because in ten years, people could find that natural gas and hydrogen to be the preferred method of fueling and propulsion, not battery electricity.

I disagree with you. I think the current business model can work. I was the first person in GA to put a reservation in for the Leaf back in 08 or 09. I took delivery of the second leaf delivered in GA. Someone in Atlanta got theirs a week or two earlier, even through he ordered is after mine. I enjoyed being able to order what I wanted on line. Knowing I was locking down the price. I really don't need a dealer. I just need a service center. None of us early adapters could go to a dealer for a test drive. We had to go to an "event" for a five min test drive and look see. Now of course we could have told the dealer no at time of purchase and left the dealer with a car that he would have to sell. But I don't believe that happened often. I have close to a million miles driven in my life time so far. I have taken two new cars over 250,000 miles and one use car over 250,000, Plus two new cars over 100,000, one new car over 100,000 and two used cars over 100,000. I drive the leaf almost every day but I've only put 15,000 miles in over two years on the car. It is used only as the town car as it doesn't have the range to even get me to the airport for an out of town trip. I say all of this because in all those cars and all those miles I've never needed a dealer. I've used the dealer's service center, but I could care less for the dealer. My Honda I put over 288,000 and it never say a dealer. I had a very good Honda approved repair shop in Atlanta who took car of my baby for all 288K. (I should have put a new transmission and kept that car.) So why not buy from a mall store.
 
TomT said:
Some interesting tidbits on the S, X and other things...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090225_elon-musk-talks-tesla-model-x-details-model-s-upgrades-at-europe-qa-sessions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That was interesting. Thanks for posting the link.
 
The comparison between Apple and Tesla is on innovation and coming up with disruptive technologies and both companies having a visionary leader. Not on price points and such.

Also everyone agrees that the current retail model is a drain on auto makers. Tesla - even in Dallas, TX - is giving test drives every other week. And if you need one in a hurry, just call them and they can schedule one within a few hours.

Train is now clutching on straws.
 
Apple doesnt come up with disruptive technologies - it packages them. Tesla is doing some of same, but is doing more innovation. But Apple isnt really the point here

Also if you understand what Musk is doing here, he is Henry Ford but in a modern way. Tesla is clearly not out to make "luxury cars" - it is out to make a mainstream breakthrough, to end up with product that is for everyman.

The real end-game for Tesla is in proving the commercial viability of it's way of making and selling cars, in so doing upsetting the industry fundamentals - and then licensing or selling out to the larger players after they have consolidated.

This is all the more reason NOT to repeat the outdated "dealer/showroom/salesman/lot-full-of-standard-inventory" process - that is precisely what you dont want in the future of the auto industry if you are to increase customer satisfaction and pricing power.
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-protests-bills-limit-expansion-212019084.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder what stops Tesla from spinning off an independent (wink-wink) subsidiary similar to AutoNation, call it TeslaNation, to operate a network of independent (wink-wink) sales and service outlets. Seems like that would circumvent all these state laws.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-protests-bills-limit-expansion-212019084.html

I wonder what stops Tesla from spinning off an independent (wink-wink) subsidiary similar to AutoNation, call it TeslaNation, to operate a network of independent (wink-wink) sales and service outlets. Seems like that would circumvent all these state laws.
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/national-automobile-dealers-associatio-its-illegal-car-company-sell-cars-directly-publi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Just ran across this... A Tesla fire where it was not plugged in or moving...

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/2/16/Another-Tesla-Model-S-Has-Caught-on-Fire-7718665/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
TomT said:
Just ran across this... A Tesla fire where it was not plugged in or moving...

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/2/16/Another-Tesla-Model-S-Has-Caught-on-Fire-7718665/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very misleading.
A fire occurred in the owners garage. We don't even know that the source of the fire was indeed the Tesla.
The first image they show is of a different event. The images available of the actual event are rather poor, and little damage is apparent.

Then this part:
Some initial guesses as to how the fire started could involve the car’s electrical system and/or charging components. For now, neither Tesla nor the owner are saying much, but this case will surely be followed closely and answers will hopefully be given. - See more at: http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/2/16/Another-Tesla-Model-S-Has-Caught-on-Fire-7718665/#sthash.Iabf1MgI.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tesla has checked, and verified that the battery, charger, cable, adapter and wall outlet were not the source of the fire. So, what little they did say was conveniently omitted from this piece.

Shameful that EVs still have to put up with this from some media outlets.
 
Zythryn said:
Shameful that EVs still have to put up with this from some media outlets.

FWIW, here are a couple more reports:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101416608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/14/tesla-investigating-the-cause-of-model-s-garage-fire-in-toronto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
And the ICE conflagrations continue unabated...
http://www.worldcarfans.com/114021570291/porsche-halts-911-gt3-deliveries-after-five-cars-caught" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
TomT said:
Zythryn said:
Shameful that EVs still have to put up with this from some media outlets.

FWIW, here are a couple more reports:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101416608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/14/tesla-investigating-the-cause-of-model-s-garage-fire-in-toronto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Much more even handed reports.
I do love the fact that the fire department reports the fire started in the engine compartment area.
Perhaps it actually started with the Lexus that was also in the garage and actually HAS an engine compartment ;-)
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I wonder what stops Tesla from spinning off an independent (wink-wink) subsidiary similar to AutoNation, call it TeslaNation, to operate a network of independent (wink-wink) sales and service outlets. Seems like that would circumvent all these state laws.
In the WA bill I saw, there is specific language to establish ultimate (part) owner of the dealership - not just the front company.

The director may deny a license under this chapter when the application is a subterfuge that conceals the real person in interest whose license has been denied, suspended, or revoked for cause under this chapter and the terms have not been fulfilled or a civil penalty has not been paid, ((or)) the director finds that the application was not filed in good faith, or the issuance of a new license or subagency would cause a manufacturer, distributor, factory branch, or factory representative, or an agent, officer, parent company, wholly or partially owned subsidiary, affiliated entity, or other person controlled by or under common control with a manufacturer, distributor, factory branch, or factory representative, to be in violation of p. 1 SHB 2524
1 chapter 46.96 RCW.
 
This new law is just sad. A big blow to the EV movement especially in WA state. They now made it that the manufacturers cant push EV's to the dealers unless they ALL agree to carry the product. That means that it will kill Leaf, Volt, i3 and other sales if it truly reads the way I understand. I hope I'm wrong, but the law as it was described on the TMC forum is just plain stupid. I have to believe that the person who's post I read was incorrect. They basically gave the EV market to Tesla by exempting them. They essentially created an EV monopoly in WA with Tesla.

edit: ok I re-read the comment and it is not that bad...

And 7.1.l still says that existing dealers can’t be forced to install service equipment for new vehicles unless ALL dealers are forced to do so, so it could be harder to get new EVs from existing automakers in to the state (maybe not; but it now depends on the dealers more than the manufacturers, and the dealers have traditionally been more reluctant than the manufacturers).

So they cant be forced to purchase ev tools and equipment unless all the dealers do it, but individual dealers can still chose to do it if they want.

Better, but still a stupid law.
 
4th Qtr report story here:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-q4-results-beats-estimates-expects-to-deliver-35000-model-s-sedans-in-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still haven't turned a GAAP profit (lost $0.16/share), but the stock went up anyway.
 
GRA said:
4th Qtr report story here:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-q4-results-beats-estimates-expects-to-deliver-35000-model-s-sedans-in-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still haven't turned a GAAP profit (lost $0.16/share), but the stock went up anyway.

Stocks don't go up or down based on the numbers in a vacuum. They go up or down based on the numbers as compared with expectations.
The analysts had an average loss of twenty or so cents per share. The numbers I saw showed a loss of 13 cents a share (I haven't seen the 16 cents reported).
Guidance for the rest of the year (35,000 this year), margins, and just about everything else in the discussion was seen as very positive.

So yes, the stock is going up after hours. Tomorrow should be an interesting day.
The Giga factory announcement next week should be even more interesting.
 
Tesla forum thread on 4QR here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/23892-Q4-2013-results-data-points-projections-and-expectations/page23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What strikes me as most interesting is that the average sale price of Tesla's "~$50k BEV" was ~$106k...and there was still a GAAP loss reported.
 
edatoakrun said:
Tesla forum thread on 4QR here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/23892-Q4-2013-results-data-points-projections-and-expectations/page23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What strikes me as most interesting is that the average sale price of Tesla's "~$50k BEV" was ~$106k...and there was still a GAAP loss reported.

Tesla isn't selling a 50k BEV, not sure why you would qualify it that way. Tesla's base model starts at about 71k (63k after rebate).

Are you sure about that average price number? I don't see many Performace Plus models out there.
 
Zythryn said:
GRA said:
4th Qtr report story here:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-q4-results-beats-estimates-expects-to-deliver-35000-model-s-sedans-in-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still haven't turned a GAAP profit (lost $0.16/share), but the stock went up anyway.
Stocks don't go up or down based on the numbers in a vacuum. They go up or down based on the numbers as compared with expectations.
The analysts had an average loss of twenty or so cents per share. The numbers I saw showed a loss of 13 cents a share (I haven't seen the 16 cents reported).
The article I linked mentioned that the analysts were forecasting a GAAP loss of -$0.02/share, and it was actually -$0.16/s. Non-GAAP was forecast to be +$0.21/s, and was instead +$0.33/s.

Zythryn said:
Guidance for the rest of the year (35,000 this year), margins, and just about everything else in the discussion was seen as very positive.

So yes, the stock is going up after hours. Tomorrow should be an interesting day.
The Giga factory announcement next week should be even more interesting.
Yes, I'm curious what the effect of that will be as well.
 
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