Official Toyota Prius PHEV thread

[Stoaty]

Or to REALLY accentuate the ROI logic - you can compare the Volt's cost to the Hybrid Malibu (presuming both are averaging 12K miles/yr). Payback would be around a million miles :lol:

While calculating ROI has its place, I respect anyone who drives a car that plugs in to the wall. All of the models have their place, and once Toyota drops the price of the PIP (likely in a couple of years) it will be a fierce competitor given the established track record of the regular Prius. The more plugins, the merrier. :mrgreen:

 

[DrInnovation]

Estimated Fuel costs are $.0500/mile (so much more than your leaf or my Volt, then again they are only at 31% EV which is limiting).

Might not be worth it on a strict cost basis to get the PIP (MSRP $8,000 more for PIP), but anything that decreases use of fossil fuels is a good thing. Assuming about 5 cents per mile less to drive the PIP on electricity compared to gas, you would have to put in 160,000 ELECTRIC miles to recoup the extra $8,000. If electric miles are about 30% of your total, that means you wouldn't break even financially until you drove your PIP about 530,000 miles!!! . . . . . . . snip

Or to REALLY accentuate the ROI logic - you can compare the Volt's cost to the Hybrid Malibu (presuming both are averaging 12K miles/yr). Payback would be around a million miles
:lol:

My volt was Volt 43, less fed and state incentives net cost was just under 30K. Hybrid Malibu is 26K, so difference is 4K.
I'm averaging $.025/mile. A 30mpg malibu hybrid would be about $.075/mile
The difference is $.05 so for 4K that is only 80Kmiles, quite a few miles shy of your million.

And the Volt is a much nicer car..

What is the ROI Of the added leather seats, nav system or other 4K in options I choose?

What is the ROI of a BMW?

 

[Herm]

and once Toyota drops the price of the PIP (likely in a couple of years) it will be a fierce competitor given the established track record of the regular Prius.

Everyone was disapointed the PIP was not a $3k option for a regular Prius, they just loaded everything and the kitchen sink on it... $39k ouch!

 

[astrorob]

and once Toyota drops the price of the PIP (likely in a couple of years) it will be a fierce competitor given the established track record of the regular Prius.

Everyone was disapointed the PIP was not a $3k option for a regular Prius, they just loaded everything and the kitchen sink on it... $39k ouch!

there are two levels of trim, I hope you are aware. 32k msrp for the standard model.

 

[astrorob]

What is the ROI Of the added leather seats, nav system or other 4K in options I choose?

What is the ROI of a BMW?

this. seriously. it never ceases to amaze me that people never have anything to say about piling on random options - stereo systems, nav systems, leather seats - but when it comes to some feature which has a tangible benefit in reduced gasoline consumption/emissions (hybrid drivetrain, plug-in, pure EV) then it suddenly becomes all about whether or not it's "worth it" to spend extra money to get these features.

 

[Herm]

there are two levels of trim, I hope you are aware. 32k msrp for the standard model.

according to some people the standard model of the Volt is a $17k Cruze, but like the PIP it also has very little electric range.

Its amazing you can spend more money on a PIP than on a Volt

 

[TomT]

Frankly, if I was currently shopping in that segment (which I am not), I'd likely go with the Volt rather than the PIP...

Its amazing you can spend more money on a PIP than on a Volt

 

[DrInnovation]

Frankly, if I was shopping in that segment, I'd likely go with the Volt rather than the PIP...

Its amazing you can spend more money on a PIP than on a Volt

Wow that's the nicest thing I think I've ever heard you say about the Volt. Thanks..

I think the PiP is well suited to a very small segment.. small daily driving (10 miles of say errands maybe a tad more with mid-day recharging) with multiple 100+ trips per month. It could be an ideal car for a stay-at-home mom with frequent family trips to an an adjacent city.

Mostly I think the PiP will sell to the Prius-crowd because its the best prius.. not because it will really save much or its the best way to save the environment -- its they trust/like toyota. The small real-world data so far is around overall 62 (fulley)-75mpg(PC spreadsheet). Its a bit of a bump from the Prius but not really EV and not likely to recover the higher cost. But existing owners would probably be better off keeping their old prius for trips maybe getting an PHEV kit (net cost here in CO for a 4kw kit is 750$.) Or keep the old prius and buying a leaf .. a garage-level Plug-in Hybrid.

 

[Stoaty]

But existing owners would probably be better off keeping their old prius for trips maybe getting an PHEV kit (net cost here in CO for a 4kw kit is 750$.)

I would be very interested in more info on this, like how many EV miles one can get, how difficult to install, etc. Do you have a link?

 

[RegGuheert]

I think the PiP is well suited to a very small segment.. small daily driving (10 miles of say errands maybe a tad more with mid-day recharging) with multiple 100+ trips per month. It could be an ideal car for a stay-at-home mom with frequent family trips to an an adjacent city.

I feel the LEAF is the ideal car for that role since it costs less, requires less maintenance and there is no chance of an ICE kicking on if you get on a highway.

Or keep the old prius and buying a leaf .. a garage-level Plug-in Hybrid.

That's what we have done, except with our 10-year-old Honda Civic Hybrid. Hopefully with the HCH getting fewer trips it will last many more years with very little maintenance.

 

[IBELEAF]

But existing owners would probably be better off keeping their old prius for trips maybe getting an PHEV kit (net cost here in CO for a 4kw kit is 750$.)

I would be very interested in more info on this, like how many EV miles one can get, how difficult to install, etc. Do you have a link?

I searched for such kit and first link that came up lists it for $3.5k

http://www.enginer.us/view.php/plug-in-mpg-box.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

found one local for me and it's $5k installed...
http://pacificev.com/services_plug.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DrInnovation]

But existing owners would probably be better off keeping their old prius for trips maybe getting an PHEV kit (net cost here in CO for a 4kw kit is 750$.)

I would be very interested in more info on this, like how many EV miles one can get, how difficult to install, etc. Do you have a link?

You can get details at
http://www.boulderhc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The $750 for the 4kWh unit is the installed price. I think the law actually requires installed units or something, not just raw parts/kits (but I could be wrong).

for the 4kw pack EV mode uses only the electric motor and can be used at speeds below 34 mph. In local driving, many people see a 40-100% improvement in fuel economy.

The 10kWh pack (which is $5500 net) supports forced EV mode up to 52 mph. Reported MPG is 80-100 for people doing < 100miles a day.

 

[Stoaty]

You can get details at
http://www.boulderhc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The $750 for the 4kWh unit is the installed price. I think the law actually requires installed units or something, not just raw parts/kits (but I could be wrong).

The link lists the 4 kWh unit as $5,500 installed (but under $1500 for Colorado residents after tax credits/rebates). Fine if you live in Colorado, but not helpful elsewhere.

 

[Ingineer]

As an alternative, I've got my loaded 2008 Prius for sale with only 30k miles. It's a PHEV of my own design and has a 40 mile electric-only range. (Zero Gas consumed)

It's got a 6.5kWh (usable) pack of A123's that's still producing 100% capacity, and a 3.5kW charger. (full charge in under 2 hours)

I will be happy to demo the car in the Bay Area to anyone interested.

-Phil

 

[DrInnovation]

You can get details at
http://www.boulderhc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The $750 for the 4kWh unit is the installed price. I think the law actually requires installed units or something, not just raw parts/kits (but I could be wrong).

The link lists the 4 kWh unit as $5,500 installed (but under $1500 for Colorado residents after tax credits/rebates). Fine if you live in Colorado, but not helpful elsewhere.

Apologies if my post was misleading. My original post did say it the $750 was the net cost in CO. ( I though maybe you were interested because you were thinking of moving here.. its just one of the many benefits of living here compared to many other places. )
My original point was that the PiP was not as good a deal in many places.. too high a premium. Not one of my prius driving friends is thinking of the PiP... most are just happy with what hey god, 2 now have upgrades and one is looking at Volt vs Leaf (but maybe Model S and still waiting to decide).

 

[adric22]

As an alternative, I've got my loaded 2008 Prius for sale with only 30k miles. It's a PHEV of my own design and has a 40 mile electric-only range. (Zero Gas consumed)

It's got a 6.5kWh (usable) pack of A123's that's still producing 100% capacity, and a 3.5kW charger. (full charge in under 2 hours)

Out of curiosity, how do you manage 40 miles out of 6.5Kwh? Toyota's own PHV has around 4 Kwh, right? And it only does 14 or so miles. And the Volt, of course, can't even get 40 miles most of the time on twice as big of a battery pack. What is your secret? Driving 20 mph?

 

[astrorob]

As an alternative, I've got my loaded 2008 Prius for sale with only 30k miles. It's a PHEV of my own design and has a 40 mile electric-only range. (Zero Gas consumed)

It's got a 6.5kWh (usable) pack of A123's that's still producing 100% capacity, and a 3.5kW charger. (full charge in under 2 hours)

Out of curiosity, how do you manage 40 miles out of 6.5Kwh? Toyota's own PHV has around 4 Kwh, right? And it only does 14 or so miles. And the Volt, of course, can't even get 40 miles most of the time on twice as big of a battery pack. What is your secret? Driving 20 mph?

usable capacity on toyota's plugin is around 2.7kwh.

 

[Ingineer]

As an alternative, I've got my loaded 2008 Prius for sale with only 30k miles. It's a PHEV of my own design and has a 40 mile electric-only range. (Zero Gas consumed)

It's got a 6.5kWh (usable) pack of A123's that's still producing 100% capacity, and a 3.5kW charger. (full charge in under 2 hours)

Out of curiosity, how do you manage 40 miles out of 6.5Kwh? Toyota's own PHV has around 4 Kwh, right? And it only does 14 or so miles. And the Volt, of course, can't even get 40 miles most of the time on twice as big of a battery pack. What is your secret? Driving 20 mph?

It's about 20 miles highway or 40 miles city. Keep in mind my 6.5kWh figure is actual usable kWh, not total installed kWh of which only a small part is usable. (as the many manufacturers quote)

A Leaf on the highway going 60mph gets about 4 miles per kWh, so 6.5 is good for 26 miles. Now the Prius on the highway in all-electric isn't quite as good due to the way the PSD (Power Split Device) transaxle is built, so I find real-world, I get 20 miles, but in the city on surface roads I can easily get 40 without even trying. Most Leaf drivers see 6 miles per kWh in these scenarios, which would mean 6.5kWh is good for 39 miles, but the Regen in the Prius works better (less friction waste). I've had 60 mile experiences more than once!

Hope that clarifies!

-Phil

 

[Spies]

As an alternative, I've got my loaded 2008 Prius for sale with only 30k miles.

So you are selling your custom PHEV Prius? You should also mention that your Prius, if I recall, has the white California HOV stickers.

 

[Ingineer]

As an alternative, I've got my loaded 2008 Prius for sale with only 30k miles.

So you are selling your custom PHEV Prius? You should also mention that your Prius, if I recall, has the white California HOV stickers.

Yes, it does. Which reminds me I need to get some pictures taken and posted. I've been so busy with LEAFSCAN stuff, I haven't had time to get out and do it.

-Phil