Owner of my office complex won't let me charge

[PlutoISaPlanet]

I work in a large commercial office park with a nice covered parking garage. I made a request to be able to charge on a 120v as there are no chargers here and after a couple weeks of knuckle dragging was just flat out refused due to "liability reasons." Has anyone made a successful appeal to these types of neanderthals? Forward thinking apparently isn't their strong suit.

 

[mkjayakumar]

I did. I work at a place that has multi-storyed parking lot and each level has about 20 120v plugs in corners and such. So I met the facilities manager, who asked me to put in an official request. I clearly mentioned two things.

1) I am looking to get access to a simple run of the mill 120 socket of which there are plenty in the parking lot, for around 2 or 3 hours a day, and I am not looking for 220V Car charger.

2) I am willing to pay whatever it is deemed as reasonable for this access.

The powers to be discussed this apparently at the highest level and came back with an answer which simply doesn't make sense. I was told, "We have instituted a pilot program with Car chargers in another facility at another state and depending on its success we might consider implementing the same here sometime next year".

WTH? I clearly said I am not looking for a car charger, but simply permission to use the plethora of 120V sockets that are out there.

I took that answer as neither a No nor Yes for my request. So what would a good corporate citizen like me to do ? I am instituting the don't ask-don't tell policy, and it has removed all range anxiety for my 70 mile round trip commute at comfortable highway speeds

 

[mikeEmike]

It might be for liability reasons, but there are other issues as well. One is that even though L1 uses only 120V, it max's out a 15A circuit, so if anything significant is on these plugs (assuming multiple outlets on the circuit), it can blow the circuit breaker. Hopefully the circuits there are 20A, but the same point applies since it would take a significant portion of that circuit's capacity. Second, other office tenants might not like the fact you are using electricity whose costs can be passed onto them. Most EV owners in your situation would be glad to pay the costs of using the outlets, but then that can be an administrative hassle as well.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. If I was a tenant or administrator of that office building, I would be supportive of charging, paid for by the user and with a time limit to discourage abuse of the privilege. Hopefully management of these office buildings will see this as an opportunity to promote themselves in a positive way, and provide you with a means of charging.

 

[Nubo]

... I took that answer as neither a No nor Yes for my request. So what would a good corporate citizen like me to do ? I am instituting the don't ask-don't tell policy, and it has removed all range anxiety for my 70 mile round trip commute at comfortable highway speeds

Seems like a big risk. Personally I wouldn't be charging without an explicit "yes".

 

[jpa2825]

You can also point out to anyone that doesn't think it is equitable: "Well is it fair that we all have to pay for resurfacing the lot periodically due, in part, to some of the oil staining from ICE cars that drip various fluids as they are parked during the day? My LEAF is certainly not contributing to that cost / environmental concern. Why should I pay for that?"

 

[eclecticflower]

... I took that answer as neither a No nor Yes for my request. So what would a good corporate citizen like me to do ? I am instituting the don't ask-don't tell policy, and it has removed all range anxiety for my 70 mile round trip commute at comfortable highway speeds

Seems like a big risk. Personally I wouldn't be charging without an explicit "yes".

I like mkjayakumar's DADT approach, because it equates to everyone and his/her coworker plugging in their radios, space heaters, cell phones, laptops & tablets, fans, etc., (admittedly, I do this every day at work) and not asking their management for an "OK" or offering to pay a portion of the electric bill. Those uses seem like a much bigger draw (cumulatively, throughout the business) than plugging in your trickle charger for a few hours...but you mathematicians correct me if I'm wrong. Seems like any time you try doing something this minor (my view) the right way (by asking first), you open a big ol' can of worms, it's a monumental decision for the powers that be and you ultimately get declined for being honest about it. I can't imagine management ever going through our entire hospital and unplugging every single device that's not "approved" for drawing their electricity.

Thank you for letting me dovetail onto mkjayakumar's opinion and ranting! :lol:

 

[smkettner]

I work in a large commercial office park with a nice covered parking garage. I made a request to be able to charge on a 120v as there are no chargers here and after a couple weeks of knuckle dragging was just flat out refused due to "liability reasons." Has anyone made a successful appeal to these types of neanderthals? Forward thinking apparently isn't their strong suit.

Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. If you had been charging six weeks and want to verify if you can continue....
Besides if the outlet is a liability maybe it should be removed :roll:

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

I work in a large commercial office park with a nice covered parking garage. I made a request to be able to charge on a 120v as there are no chargers here and after a couple weeks of knuckle dragging was just flat out refused due to "liability reasons." Has anyone made a successful appeal to these types of neanderthals? Forward thinking apparently isn't their strong suit.

Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. If you had been charging six weeks and want to verify if you can continue....
Besides if the outlet is a liability maybe it should be removed :roll:

I only have one outlet in my garage but have chosen not to use it (unless emergency), due to the discomfort of possibly being accused of stealing. There are several tenants in our building, and the cost would be allocated to all, not just my company. I have thought about offering to pay for the wiring of a dedicated 120 to my company, and then some kind of fee. That just seems like it would create a lot of hassle for a lot of people. What to do . Now my friend the Voltman plugs in every day, carefully hiding the cord. Let's see what they DO to him.

 

[Reddy]

Now my friend the Voltman plugs in every day, carefully hiding the cord. Let's see what they DO to him.

Interesting. This is supported by the Ecototality data that says Volts average 1.4 charges/day vs. 1.1 for the Leaf.
http://www.theevproject.com/downloads/documents/Q4 2012 EVP Report.pdf

 

[PlutoISaPlanet]

Unfortunately I don't think I could just swing by with DADT. The garage is only one level and I think my Leaf with a chord sticking out of the hood would be pretty noticeable. The maintenance guy's office is in the garage and he'd probably have to mention it.

I find it really strange they're putting up a fuss. We share this building with a private university that foots the electricity bill of the entire building, every tenant. I don't know why it's set up that way but it was explained to us when we moved in that the University uses so much power that it just covered the building entirely and no electricity usage costs would be assigned to us.

I'm also in agreement with eclectic that charging a vehicle wouldn't have much more impact that plugging in another computer that stays on 24 hours a day/7 days a week...

Interesting to know about overloading a 15A receptacle, though. Thanks.

I did some googling and found some news reports from other cities reporting on this new 'clash' between occupants and landlords over charging electric vehicles. If I can't appeal to their better side I may see if a media outlet's interested in covering some first-world drama.

 

[thankyouOB]

I work in a large commercial office park with a nice covered parking garage. I made a request to be able to charge on a 120v as there are no chargers here and after a couple weeks of knuckle dragging was just flat out refused due to "liability reasons." Has anyone made a successful appeal to these types of neanderthals? Forward thinking apparently isn't their strong suit.

Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. If you had been charging six weeks and want to verify if you can continue....
Besides if the outlet is a liability maybe it should be removed :roll:

i am in this camp. we have patrolled lots. they know i am plugged in and no one cares. there are 6 or 7 Blinks, but they have no signage and are ICEd all the time. so that is not really an alternative.
i suppose a senior vp could see it sometime in the future in the basement and ask questions, but they all have reserved parking on level 1.

 

[eclecticflower]

Unfortunately I don't think I could just swing by with DADT. The garage is only one level and I think my Leaf with a chord sticking out of the hood would be pretty noticeable. The maintenance guy's office is in the garage and he'd probably have to mention it.

You might just want to get friendly with the maintenance guy and let him know it costs about as much as running a radio all day (quote him some cents-per-kWh figures). He probably wouldn't sweat it if he understood that and might not even blink an eye if you plugged in occasionally. Good luck.

 

[davewill]

...We share this building with a private university that foots the electricity bill of the entire building, every tenant. I don't know why it's set up that way but it was explained to us when we moved in that the University uses so much power that it just covered the building entirely and no electricity usage costs would be assigned to us. ...

Might the University be an avenue to pursue? If they were to sign off on the idea, maybe the building management would just fall into line.

 

[PlutoISaPlanet]

I only have one outlet in my garage but have chosen not to use it (unless emergency)...

16 miles displayed on the dash with 8 to get home over some pretty hilly terrain emergency enough?

]Might the University be an avenue to pursue? If they were to sign off on the idea, maybe the building management would just fall into line.

Might be... wish there was a student with a Leaf around. I've seen another around the parking lot but not since I got mine...

 

[Nubo]

I like mkjayakumar's DADT approach, because it equates to everyone and his/her coworker plugging in their radios, space heaters, cell phones, laptops & tablets, fans, etc., (admittedly, I do this every day at work) and not asking their management for an "OK" or offering to pay a portion of the electric bill. Those uses seem like a much bigger draw (cumulatively, throughout the business) than plugging in your trickle charger for a few hours...but you mathematicians correct me if I'm wrong. ...

It's not so much the cumulative effect. The larger concern for such a property is the continuous 12 amp draw on a single socket. The design for a parking garage likely made assumptions about what kind of equipment and how many outlets would conceivably be utilized at any one time; outlets being there to facilitate maintenance activities and upkeep where someone might plug in something to work on an area, then move to the next socket, etc.. You might very well blow a circuit by even having 2 LEAFs charging at once. And that's where organizations start getting nervous about policy, as they begin asking themselves what will happen when the next fellow wants to follow the precedent we're setting? Are we ready for 2, 5, 10, 20 people to start plugging into these garage sockets and drawing 12 amps? And if not, how do we fairly and legally regulate this new thing?

To me, it sounds like this particular business, to their credit, is in the process of developing those details (logistics, electrical requirements) with their pilot. And until then I would assume "no", unless I got a clear "yes". From their perspective they may already think their answer was "no" until further notice.

As far as monetary issues, there's a material difference too. The cost of charging a cellphone is deemed too small to bother with on an individual basis. But for a LEAF you could be talking about a dollar. Still small potatoes but it does start to get into the range where questions of equal benefits and grumbling start to come into play, I think.

 

[Reddy]

I don't know how much it will help, but perhaps you can show how important this is with official references.
Here's some info on the DOE EV Everywhere Challenge:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/electric_vehicles/index.html
http://energy.gov/articles/ev-everywhere-charges-workplace
http://energy.gov/articles/thirteen...rgy-department-s-workplace-charging-challenge
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/electric_vehicles/pdfs/eveverywhere_blueprint.pdf

 

[Reddy]

16 miles displayed on the dash with 8 to get home over some pretty hilly terrain emergency enough?

Nope. Should be easy.

 

[Luft]

I work in a large commercial office park with a nice covered parking garage. I made a request to be able to charge on a 120v as there are no chargers here and after a couple weeks of knuckle dragging was just flat out refused due to "liability reasons." Has anyone made a successful appeal to these types of neanderthals? Forward thinking apparently isn't their strong suit.

Before calling management neanderthals and backward thinking I would try to understand their concerns. Then you can call them neanderthals.

Seriously though, what are the liability issues? Are all of the outlets positioned so that you can not plug in without stretching the cord across a sidewalk? I can see how this could cause a tripping hazard. If I were you I would seek to understand all of their concerns prior to revisiting the issue.

 

[cgaydos]

As someone who works on an "eStaff" for a high tech company let me offer some suggestions for how to get approval for this.

First, it sounds like the request went to a Facilities Manager. Whether the Facilities Manager works for the larger corporation or for the company that owns a shared office complex his/her concerns are the same - meet requirements for the lowest cost, including lowest risk. Of course your request to be allowed to use a 110V parking lot plug will be turned down. First, the Facilities Manager sees no benefit. Second, he/she sees additional costs (the electricity) and additional risks (I'm stretching here, but any extra thing they allow will entail some risk - maybe fire hazard). I have never known a Facilities Manager who would have approved this kind of request independently.

No, in order for this to get approved it needs to go to someone who can tell the Facilities Manager that this is a requirement. Someone who can evaluate this request in light of the low cost of electricity, the potential improvement to PR and employee morale, and the general context of what the company is trying to do. Who should you go to? Every company is different. But this person will need to be someone who cares about environmental and/or employee morale issues and has influence with the executive board. You won't need to bring any additional information than what you already have - you just need to find the right person.

In the mean time, DADT is fine. But be sure you've used one of the strategies available elsewhere on this forum to lock your EVSE cord.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Now my friend the Voltman plugs in every day, carefully hiding the cord. Let's see what they DO to him.

Interesting. This is supported by the Ecototality data that says Volts average 1.4 charges/day vs. 1.1 for the Leaf.
http://www.theevproject.com/downloads/documents/Q4 2012 EVP Report.pdf

He lives far away, and needs to plug to stay electric for his return commute. However, he bought the car with the smaller battery and has a backup engine, so I would hope if I had an emergency he would gladly forfeit the PLUG.