Please help! urgent/1 day to take back Leaf. range is awful

[kentuckyleaf]

You need the L2 EVSE if you are forced to keep the Leaf. Preheating the car changes everything. So does plugging in at work. I think that this is the story we will hear from normal car buyers as the EV revolution continues. Early adopters researched, got on a 6 month waiting list, test drove the demo Leaf several times, including a round trip to work - school - home, and decided that on a 35 mile rt commute, there is enough margin to feel comfortable in a Leaf. I figure, even with a 52 mile RT commute, the Leaf would work for us. We do preheat in the winter, and if we come up short, there is a 20A outlet for an L1 charge at my work and my wife's work as well. We also drive right past a Nissan dealership with L2 available that is 10 miles from home. We NEVER drive 70mph, that's crazy talk! Okay, we sometimes drive 70, but not on a 52 mile trip. Try following a slow truck (safely that is). 52 miles will be easy in the summer, but I still wouldn't drive 70 on the Interstate. There are many lanes, so a little slow is better on the interstate then doing 45 on a 55mph secondary road where folks can't pass you.

On the up side, you will save enough in gas to buy your lunch every day. I'd try to figure out a way to plug in at, or near work. We didn't know we could plug in at work until we asked. The plug at my work requires a 100' 10 awg cord to reach (which is a bummer) but my wife found an outlet right next to a parking space at her work.

Hopefully they will take the 2012 back, I thing the extra margin provided by the 2013 would be useful in your case. I'd also consider the Volt if you feel the need for speed, but still want to plug in at home. Good luck!

 

[scottf200]

...because stress is a real issue for my wife and can aggravate a condition that can lead to hospital stays if things get too bad.

You can replace a car but you need to take care of your life partner as well as yourself. Seriously take this back. Wait for a 2013 if you want a BEV. There will likely be some reasonable deals in a few months and if you shop around. Seriously don't do this to yourselves.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

...
"Total at end of trip: 60.2 miles maximum range. The bars are about 5 miles each."

not bad considering this:

"I have not pre heated at all, but I have run the heater during most of the trip".

preheating will save you a lot!!

1. The battery life will increase over the first few weeks/months as they become conditioned

I have "broken in two leafs, on my third (traded up to a Lease today), I have found that the range improves within about 5K miles, but don't have hard numbers. don't expect it to be a lot, but maybe 5 miles or so.[/quote]

2. The car will somehow adjust itself to my driving style and go further

I think that's nonesense, IMHO.

3. wife & I will improve our driving skills leading to better range

absolutely!

4. We need to have the 220 L2 charger to get better results.

240 is key! prewarming is not really doable without it!!

5. One of your battery packs might be defective
And after the battery test came back A-OK:

I seriously doubt it!

6. 60.2 miles is just about right for the current weather and our hills.

I would say yes, considering your use of the heater. this car is not really designed to have the heater used without prewarming for commutes that come anywhere near the full range in winter.

you will feel a lot better when you get to a computer a read through all the helpful stuff people have written for you, this is a great community!

 

[Den]

If you're going to drive with the heat on, this is pretty much the range you're going to get.

Preheat and ECO-mode should help. In ECO-mode at about 30F heater shouldn't consume more than 1 - 1,5kW of energy (with A/C on!! Don't put it off!!). But i D-mode without preheat it can consume 4 - 5 kW!!! So solution is very simple.

 

[garsh]

5 more and got VLBW.

Running the heater did you in. Without the heater I'm guessing you would get over 70 miles and wouldn't even hit the first low battery warning.

If you're hitting VLBW during your normal commute, driving the way you expect to normally drive, then I think you should give the car back. Hitting VLBW regularly can be stressful. Add in some strong winds and rain or snow, and your mileage will drop even further.

1. The battery life will increase over the first few weeks/months as they become conditioned
2. The car will somehow adjust itself to my driving style and go further
3. wife & I will improve our driving skills leading to better range
4. We need to have the 220 L2 charger to get better results.
5. One of your battery packs might be defective
And after the battery test came back A-OK:
6. 60.2 miles is just about right for the current weather and our hills.

1, 2, 4, 5 all are BS.

 

[RPerron]

We just got our Leaf two days ago and we have exactly the same "Range Anxiety". We're living in Québec (Canada) where it the temperature reaches regularly 0 F (-17 C) in January and February and my commute is about 35 km (21 miles) (About 20 miles on highway at a speed of 60mph). I can use a 110 V at work to plug the car but no 220 V are availlable.

You have been very helpful with all your comments and I will do some testings during the upcoming days.

But I did'nt see a lot of comments about the effect of speed. What to expect on the range when most of our traveling is done on highway ?

 

[cwerdna]

But I did'nt see a lot of comments about the effect of speed. What to expect on the range when most of our traveling is done on highway ?

See the range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[Den]

But I did'nt see a lot of comments about the effect of speed. What to expect on the range when most of our traveling is done on highway ?

See the range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

This one is better: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11384#p262546" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ydnas7]

return the 2012 LEAF and get the 2013 LEAF with heat pump.
it will make a lot of difference in your situation.
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/1182/leafheatpump.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Duncan]

...because stress is a real issue for my wife and can aggravate a condition that can lead to hospital stays if things get too bad.

You can replace a car but you need to take care of your life partner as well as yourself. Seriously take this back. Wait for a 2013 if you want a BEV. There will likely be some reasonable deals in a few months and if you shop around. Seriously don't do this to yourselves.

Best advice I've seen in this thread. If you need to drive 52 every day and 60 is a reasonable range in winter, this is never going to work for you.

And it sounds like your dealer is doing everything they can to bullshit you.

I'm not based in the US, but my next step here would be Nissan and the local Fair Trading department. I'm sure they will take the car back, you were sold it based on lies about it's capability and it does not suit the needs you outlined when you were buying

 

[GRA]

"How do extremely cold temperatures effect [Sic] the range of an electric car?" Data from 5400 trips in Nissan Leafs, showing the effect of temp (low and high) on range:

http://news.fleetcarma.com/2013/01/31/electric-car-range-in-bitter-cold/#.UQxMTKxTyHd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FWIW, I agree with other recommendations to take the car back and either get a 2013 (with an unknown but decreased range loss in cold due to the heat pump) or better yet, a much longer-range BEV (expensive) or something like a Volt. It's not worth the stress.

 

[Dennas]

Well, I am finally back to the forum. Thanks again for all of the info and support.

We got so many incentives on this car, and electicity is cheap here, so we went ahead and took the 2012. I figured that the difference in keeping my 12-year old van and fixing it, or buying an older used car with the same cash, was only $45 more per month to have the Leaf! (Sans insurance, of course).

My wife has begun driving with preheating and no heat running on milder days. We found a shorter route to work. We still don't have the L2 charger but that will help too. Anyway, she is doing great and won't let me drive it. She's been saying she thinks it can get 80-90 range in the summer with hyper miling.

So things are much better. We love the car.

 

[KJD]

Glad to hear that it worked out for you. The best way to get L2 charging is with http://www.evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then all you need is a 20 amp 240 volt circuit with an L6-20 outlet.

I have used one of these for over a year now and it works perfect.

 

[KJWL]

Hey Dennas, going all the way back to your original post (glad you kept the LEAF btw, we sure love ours) it is my understanding that the 2 red dashes at the bottom of the "battery capacity" scale are just for that and don't indicate any sort of "red zone" to watch out for on the "battery charge" scale - the "bars". Of course they align w the bottom 2 bars which is the low end of what's left in the battery, and they look kind of like the little red block at the bottom of the gas gauge indicating "reserve" on every car you've ever seen before. So it's confusing by design, but those last 2 bars are just as much a useable, viable part of the battery as the first two! I get home w single digits on the range occasionally & don't worry too much about it. That said, KJD might disagree. In fact he has told me so in person.

A couple other things, just charge to 100% in the chilly weather. Get going in the morning & it's no prob. Just don't store it full charge, especially if its going to get warm. IOW, I'd worry more about the high end than the low. KJD?
We have seen 42 on the GoM with a 100% charge, right out of the garage. 42! No panic, multiply your miles/kWh X2 X#of bars, that will be what you can get because your miles/kWh should already be accounting for heater, hills you climb, etc. and doing math in your head is good for you, right?
Finally, don't hyper-mile ALL the time. Stomp on it now and then. It's a little rocket :mrgreen: ML

 

[KJD]

A couple other things, just charge to 100% in the chilly weather. Get going in the morning & it's no prob. Just don't store it full charge, especially if its going to get warm. IOW, I'd worry more about the high end than the low. KJD?

Everyone uses the LEAF differently. People need to do what works for them.

My commute is very short so I have no problem staying between 20% and 80% state of charge. However on cold days or days that I need more range, I will use the full pack.

Charge to 100% and drive down into the last bar is not a big problem, I just do not do it unless I need to for some reason. Using the "End only Timer" can minimize time spent at 100% SOC.

As Mike said, I would never charge to 100% and leave it that way for days on end. Most people can agree on that, I think.

 

[Nubo]

Well, I am finally back to the forum. Thanks again for all of the info and support.

We got so many incentives on this car, and electicity is cheap here, so we went ahead and took the 2012. I figured that the difference in keeping my 12-year old van and fixing it, or buying an older used car with the same cash, was only $45 more per month to have the Leaf! (Sans insurance, of course).

My wife has begun driving with preheating and no heat running on milder days. We found a shorter route to work. We still don't have the L2 charger but that will help too. Anyway, she is doing great and won't let me drive it. She's been saying she thinks it can get 80-90 range in the summer with hyper miling.

So things are much better. We love the car.

You might consider changing the subject title if/when you feel appropriate

 

[Jshuntr]

Glad to hear that it worked out for you. The best way to get L2 charging is with http://www.evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then all you need is a 20 amp 240 volt circuit with an L6-20 outlet.

I have used one of these for over a year now and it works perfect.

While that certainly is a terrific option, with OP being in Nashville he is more than likely eligible for the EVProject.

https://www.etec.nissanusa.com/questionnaire/index.php

This will provide you w/ a free Blink charger, and should get you $2,500 for participating.

 

[mwalsh]

?.... it is my understanding that the 2 red dashes at the bottom of the "battery capacity" scale are just for that and don't indicate any sort of "red zone" to watch out for on the "battery charge" scale - the "bars". Of course they align w the bottom 2 bars which is the low end of what's left in the battery, and they look kind of like the little red block at the bottom of the gas gauge indicating "reserve" on every car you've ever seen before. So it's confusing by design, but those last 2 bars are just as much a useable, viable part of the battery as the first two!

BUT...that's not how the gauge was originally designed. It was designed to be a red zone. As in red means danger. As in red means charge the F up right now. But, unfortunately, too many people didn't get this most simple concept, so Nissan came up with the hidden bars below the red ones as a fix.

 

[Reddy]

My wife has begun driving with preheating and no heat running on milder days. We found a shorter route to work. We still don't have the L2 charger but that will help too. Anyway, she is doing great and won't let me drive it. She's been saying she thinks it can get 80-90 range in the summer with hyper miling.

So things are much better. We love the car.

Welcome back and congratulations. Sorry that YOU will never be able to drive it again. Looks like you will need to buy another one to park next to your wife's. :lol:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

?.... it is my understanding that the 2 red dashes at the bottom of the "battery capacity" scale are just for that and don't indicate any sort of "red zone" to watch out for on the "battery charge" scale - the "bars". Of course they align w the bottom 2 bars which is the low end of what's left in the battery, and they look kind of like the little red block at the bottom of the gas gauge indicating "reserve" on every car you've ever seen before. So it's confusing by design, but those last 2 bars are just as much a useable, viable part of the battery as the first two!

BUT...that's not how the gauge was originally designed. It was designed to be a red zone. As in red means danger. As in red means charge the F up right now. But, unfortunately, too many people didn't get this most simple concept, so Nissan came up with the hidden bars below the red ones as a fix.

no different than the flashing "refuel now" light on the dash of my gasser that comes on about 75 miles from empty. just a reminder.