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Evoforce said:
Evoforce said:
I am still having the same degradation on both the 2011 battery and the 2015 battery. Both cars have lost an additional 1% just in the last week since I reported. 9 bar car now at 67% and lizard is 96%.

Lizard battery has lost an additional 1% in less than a week. It now has lost 5% in less than 2 months.

SOH 95%
SOC 89.3%
AHr 61.17
GIDs 256

Posting in thread... 2015: Battery Data Report @ 100% Charge

10/9/15

Degradation has continued the same loosing an additional 1% on each vehicle although the lizard car has traveled less mileage than the 9 bar car. Lizard now at 94% SOH and 9 bar car is at 65% SOH.


12/11/15

Lizard has lost 11% and is 2 weeks shy of a year and 9 bar car is now (8 bar car) and has lost 8% in the same time frame
 
peakay said:
Just recently picked up a GID meter and am shocked by what I see this morning. hopefully its an anomaly, but this battery appears to be going south fast:

9/28/15 7:30 am after overnight charge:

2012 Leaf w/21,000 Miles
11 Bars (-1)
204 Gids
88.2 SOC

88% SOC or 88% SOH?

It doesn't help much to say what SOC is when talking about degradation. You could drive the car 50 miles and get SOC to 20% and it wouldn't change your other numbers.
 
For the past 9 months I've monitoring my 2012 Leaf's SOH% (using an ELM327 device and LEAFstat) expecting to lose the 4th capacity bar at 67.5% SOH which I understand triggers eligibility for warranty replacement (within 5years or 60k miles). Within the past 3 days SOH has fallen through that threshold and is at 67.33% today and yet I still have 9 capacity bars.

Am I monitoring the correct battery health measure? LEAFstat shows these other data 47.06% HX, 44.61 Ahr and 86F Avg battery temperature.

Chris
 
cjs998 said:
Am I monitoring the correct battery health measure? LEAFstat shows these other data 47.06% HX, 44.61 Ahr and 86F Avg battery temperature.

The rest of us monitor AHr.

You can expect loss of the 9th bar (generally speaking) at between 42AHr and 43.5AHr. At 44.61AHr you've got a ways to go.
 
I checked the numbers this morning on the 2011 Leaf:
58503 miles
52.64 AHr
80% SOH
GID 223

I will check the 2015 sometimes this weekend.
 
cjs998 said:
For the past 9 months I've monitoring my 2012 Leaf's SOH% (using an ELM327 device and LEAFstat) expecting to lose the 4th capacity bar at 67.5% SOH which I understand triggers eligibility for warranty replacement

Your math is wrong. The 12th bar is 15%, and each additional bar is 6.25% loss, so *theoretically* you need to be <66.25% to lose the 9th bar. As others said, the main thing to watch is the AHr, with the 9th bar dropping somewhere below 43.5 AHr. I'm right around 44.9 AHr right now, so I also have some time to go, maybe even next spring.
 
Any of you guys who have been around the block so to speak with the Leaf want to weigh in on these number and my thought process?

Here's my most recent reading on my 2015 S with 18,400 mi. MFG 4/14.
283 Gids
21.93 Kwh
97.28% SOC
90.62 SOH
92.60 HX
60.04 AHr
77 degrees average temp

My numbers have kind of been all over the place with my 2015 and I'm trying to make sense of them. When new I had 292 Gids 97% SOH, 63 Ahr. During the first winter the numbers dropped, I was getting anywhere from 278-284 Gids, As low as 89% SOH, as low as 58.5 Ahr, Then during my second summer (at about 15K miles) with the car, numbers came back up and I was averaging about 284-289 Gids, 92.5% SOH, 94.5 HX, and 61.3 Ahr, now at the tail end of summer/early fall, I'm tracking the numbers above. I'm trying to understand what's going on, but the best I can summarize, the only thing to look at is a moving average. Numbers rise in Summer, drop in winter, etc...

Here's my best guess, perhaps you can confirm or deny.

1. There was some unused capacity above 292 Gids that was being degraded from Day 1, I've probably blown through that at this point.

2. The SOH, Ahr, HX numbers are somehow connect to how the car is used, charged, temp, etc.. because they bounce around.

3. The best way to estimate true degradation rates is to look at the pack from the time it just starting falling off 292 Gids (no more hidden capacity).

4. My Gids loss demonstrates from new demonstrates about a 3% capacity loss from when new, but my AHR shows about a 5% loss. Can I then assume that there's been about 2% of hidden battery capacity loss?

5. If I look at a moving average, it may tell me a better story of capacity loss in the coming years/miles. My guess is that I've experienced about 5.5% real loss at this point, (3% realized in Gids), but I can expect roughly 5% or so for every 18K miles from this point forward. Meaning that I'll be at about 36K miles, I'll be lucky to get 270 max Gids, and at 54K miles, I'll be at about 255 Gids.

6. If I lose Bar #1 at the same point as earlier cars, this will mean that I'll drop it somewhere around 60K miles give or take?

I suppose I shouldn't be too upset about this. A loss of 5% capacity per year is better than most early Leaf's but I'm just trying to get a jump on when to sell the car and move on with another EV. So much at play here including waiting for the Tesla 3, expiring tax waivers, etc... I'd like to be able to transition to a two car EV/Plug In household while there's still federal tax credits. This will means selling my Leaf and our two ICE cars within 2 years time for a Volt/Tesla 3
 
a super non technical guess is your car left the factory with 100% SOH, you bought it at 97% SOH and it is at 90.6% SOH now. As in it has lost 9.5% SOH from new (including any hidden GIDs/ahr)

You have to wait for bars to be lost and we don't know 100% what triggers that happening so to keep it simple I'd just watch SOH% and then document every stat under the sun right before and right after each bar loss.

Keep leafspy logging all your trip data and hopefully you'll have the before and after already logged on your phone when you notice the bar drop.
 
I'm just curious because the SOH hasn't always tracked the age of the battery. It was as low as 89% (over 9 months ago) but that was during the winter and at similar GIDS compared to today? If you're correct nearly 10% loss from new, that that would indicate that there was an extra 7% in hidden capacity since my max GIDS only indicate a 3% loss from the original 292. If they still drop the first bar at about 15% loss of capacity (from original max GIDS), that would be 248 Gids. So if I'm losing about 5% every 10K miles, then I'll lose it at about 40K miles on the car. As often as we drive it, this will be about 16 months from now (March 2017). Guess I'll have to wait and see.
 
Waiting for my 2nd bar to drop recent milestones

9-05-2015 dropped to 79% SOH at 41,467 miles and 52.473 AHr and 62.49 Hx
10-13-2015 still at 79% SOH dropped to 61.00 Hx at 42,456 miles and 51.850 AHr
10-20-2015 dropped to 78% SOH at 42,665 miles and 51.817 AHr and 60.96 Hx

most recent at 68% SOH, 51.791 AHr and 60.88 Hx

still no solid identification on what metric triggers the bar loss. I'm guessing it is Hx + delay or AHr + delay. No idea on the delay if it is single factor or multifactor.
 
Hello all,
New Leaf owner here and I'm already posting on this thread :roll:. I bought my 2013 Leaf SV used a week and a half ago (17,100 miles on it) with 11 bars and it just dropped to 10 yesterday. I did quick charge the car to 80% the day before yesterday so maybe that was the last straw for the 11th bar. It's only 75-80 degrees here during the day now so I can't imagine the AZ heat is still impacting the battery but who knows.

Sorry in advance for this little rant but I must say that I'm already disappointed in what it takes to keep these batteries from degrading. I bought my Leaf to use as a commuter car as I drive quite a bit for work. I am someone that needs a 100% battery each morning and need to occasionally quick charge as I'm zipping around town meeting clients but unfortunately it sounds like both of those things contribute to the degradation. Having a car that already has a short driving distance, then is further shortened by the charging limitations just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'll come to grips with it over time.

Cheers everyone
 
DiamondDan73 said:
I bought a used 2012 SL with 9 bars on Sept 1st 2015 and had the P3227 reprogram done next day.

Sept 1 38,950 mi AHr 42.94 SOH 65% Hx 58.77%
Sept 2 38,950 mi AHr 50.80 SOH 65% Hx 58.58%
Oct 1 40,900 mi AHr 45.66 SOH 69% Hx 49.02%

I am getting between 193-195 GIDs on a full charge.

Nov 1 43,183 mi AHr 44.31 SOH 67% Hx
46.58%

I am getting between 185-187 GIDs on a full charge.
 
Haven't done an accurate measurement in a while, but my 2013 (delivered March 15th, 2013) with ~51,000 miles has yet to drop the first bar.

Pretty happy so far!
 
Well, my 2011 LEAF dropped it's second bar on Saturday. 10 bars it is...

LEAF SPY REPORTS
20,953 odometer
AHr 51.42
SOH 78%
92.7% SOC
16.5kWh
75.8%
213 GIDS
3 QCs (really only 2 since one was just to see if it worked... :)

It's been a long time coming based on LEAF Spy capacity...suspect the cooler weather of winter was the trigger.

Still love my LEAF, as I purchased with the expectation of a long term capacity of 50% of original... That said, I also expected QCs to be more plentiful and reliable and the smaller older onboard is a tad slow for easy opportunity charging over a bite of food. Having another ICE to use helps, but frankly, I'd just rent one if I needed and was a solo car house.

I'll post odometer mileage and current info from the LEAF Spy after doing a 100% charge with an edit added info in the next day... Any other info helpful to add... As my name says, I am in Southern California, WLA, and Santa Monica driving environs.
 
9 bar car has lost 7% SOH so far in under a year and is at 64% and 42.17 AHr and 182 GIDs but has driven 2,400 more miles than lizard. Lizard car has lost the same 7% during the same time period and sits at 93% SOH and less mileage. Really wanted to see different results than this. Results will not be able to be tracked much longer because 9 bar car is very close to dropping to 8 bars and getting battery replacement. (I hope)
 
Update to my numbers for my 3/2013 build & buy SV:

Gids: 273 (update to original post)
AHr: 62.04
SOH: 94%
Hx: 96.62
ODO: 36,486 miles
QCs: 0
L1/L2: 2461
 
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