Preliminary RANGE results

[garygid]

Where is your reference getting 70 miles at 55?
The picture above shows 78km at 81km/h (49 miles at 50 mph), right?

The 65 mph range, with some hills, might be ??? ...
significantly less than 49 miles?

 

[garygid]

Didn't Nissan say that Heating would take more energy than the A/C?

 

[Gavin]

70 miles at a steady 55 mph on the highway on a hot 95-degree day with the air conditioning on;

so in cooler weather and maybe no air, 80 miles....

the 47 miles is scaring people...maybe rightly....but if i'm stuck in traffic for 8 hours, well my battery running out won't be the problem...my wanting to take my own life after about 5 hours of sitting in traffic will be the bigger issue.

Now of course Albuquerque doesn't have those traffic issues...but I'm also sure nobody is going 47 miles in 8 hours in California either.

Gavin

 

[Gavin]

62 miles in the winter - 14 degrees outdoors - with heater on and stop-and-go traffic reduced to an average 15 mph crawl.

so he should be fine with his commute...

the more I look at all this, Dang, Albuquerque should have been a start up city....we have a fair sized population and a fairly big city in size...but little in the way of horrid traffic and our weather is great for the LEAF...yes you use some heat in the winter, but nothing extreme...yes you use some AC in the summer, but again nothing extreme...

Gavin

 

[mitch672]

Azrich, I do think they intend the car as a "city car" used for commuting from suburbs to citys or within suburbs/cities. I don't think they ever envisioned this car for travel between distant cities, and 100 miles is distant in the EV world. In a few years, they will have a longer range pack out, maybe 150-200 miles, that would be more suited for a 100 mile daily commute..

The Tesla Model-S comes to mind, when they are availble in 2012.

 

[Nubo]

...remember, the hit on heating should not be as much as AC on a well designed system. since battery pack and motor heat can and should be collected, filtered and used to warm cabin....

In one of the Youtube videos, Nissan (Mark Perry?) stated that the AC is actually less of a drain than the main heater (I imagine that's comparing both on maximum output).

However, since the car will have heated seats and steering wheel, the driver may well be able to stay comfortable with quite a bit less cabin heat than a car not so equipped.

There's no getting around the fact that Leaf drivers are going to become more intimately acquainted with economy tradeoffs and the laws of physics than the average ICE driver. ICE are so inefficient you hardly notice the impact on range of AC, hills, headwinds, etc...

Will be interesting to see how this plays in a market where drivers are used to "having it all". Personally, I'm willing to trade AC for range when necessary. I drove an non-AC Miata in Southern California for years. Not as unimaginable or unbearable as some make it out to be. Bottom line, for the vast majority of my drives (30 mile commute), I'll be able to use heat or AC at will. For other runs, I can be flexible. I'll be happy as a clam driving past the filling station with my windows rolled down.

 

[LEAFer]

Azrich, keep your hopes alive ! The 100miler is probably out until QuickCharge is available. But the school should be able to provide you with 120V. During 8 hours that should add about 30 miles ... enough to remove range anxiety for the tour home

 

[garygid]

Perhaps it is 70 miles at a STEADY 55 mph, with no stops or acceleration? Not real world traffic?

If the real "motorway" driving, with some stop and go, A/C, and typical speeds of 50 mph (81kph) give only 78km (49 mile) range, what will real CA freeway driving get?

With some hills and stop/go before I get to the freeway, will I even make it the 40 miles one way to work ... if I try to be "safe" and keep up with the freeway traffic?

Then, if I can just make it, I would probably need a full charge to get home.

 

[garygid]

If you drive with the windows down, the additional drag at higher speeds will give you less range than with the windows up.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Where is your reference getting 70 miles at 55?
The picture above shows 78km at 81km/h (49 miles at 50 mph), right?

The 65 mph range, with some hills, might be ??? ...
significantly less than 49 miles?

isnt that with "heavy stop and go on freeway?"

 

[Azrich]

Ecotality and EV Project has fast chargers planned between Tucson and Phoenix. I'm not sure where or how many. At the Forum meeting I went to with their representatives, they said there is also a plan to connect Phoenix with San Diego with fast chargers, but this will be a long-range plan, maybe 5 years from now.

I do think they plan on LEAFs being driven between cities, on interstate highways, otherwise these chargers would not be installed.

I asked about plugging in my LEAF with 120V line. The answer is no. There are so many rules and regulations at public school sites. Having a very long extension cord from the building, out to the parking lot, would be considered a safety hazard. I can't park near the building because that is a fire hazard and also reserved for the fire department if the school is burning down. Believe me, I've already been down this road, and it's not going to happen. The only way that the EV Project could locate a charger at my school would be to bring in the electricity from the electrical line at the street. The school district can not pay for the electricity to charge one employee's car. It's never simple.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I'm disappointed in the 47 miles range (55 mph with 95 degrees) because this will make driving the 100 miles from Tucson to Phoenix almost impossible. It is interstate driving the whole way - 75 mph - which will bring down the range more. I'm afraid there won't be enough fast charging stations to do this. It would mean stopping twice for fast charges, fast charge while in Phoenix, and then twice coming back home. Also, we have about 4 months of the year when 95 degrees is a "cool" day.

Plus, my commute is 46 miles, roundtrip, with no possibility of getting a charger at work - an AZ public school with no money. Sure, I might not need AC in the morning, most of the time, but there are days in August and September when it is already 85 - 88 degrees during my morning drive. I had a convertible for a while and found it too hot many days to have the top down in the mornings.

I'm feeling a bit betrayed. At the beginning Nissan said "100 mile range", but now we find that is not so. My certainty of ordering a LEAF has just moved down a few notches. Maybe the Tucson - Phoenix area is not suited for this vehicle. Air conditioning is a necessity here on many days. I'll need more data.

Ouch! This hurts!

whoa there!! remember that figure is with "heavy stop and go" is this your situation? if so, you can greatly improve on those figures with some sensible driving. if not, they also state that you can get 70 miles at steady cruising. granted at a slower speed than u would be driving, but i think the FIRST thing u should do is simply SLOW down.

lets face some cold hard facts here; this EV will have limitations just like any car. one is that if you drive 75 as opposed to 60, u WILL see a ¼% reduction in your range and that applies TO ALL CARS.

so, u need to weigh leaving 15 minutes earlier with the pitfalls of continuing to burn gas.

also keep in mind; heavy stop and go on the freeway results in an average of 25% reduction in mileage on a Prius. i doubt its much different in any other type of car.

as far as plugging into a building...especially a work building, that would be rare since parking is not usually close enough for that. installing a plug on a light pole would be relatively easy though.

i think that AZ being in the initial launch area means that they are aware and addressing the heat issues.

 

[Gavin]

A friendly green neighbor near the school might let you charge up...or a nearby business that would like the publicity?
Or you might find the car does the commute without issue....

Still having an EV, especially a start up EV, is always a bit of a challenge.

Gavin

 

[garygid]

Does 47 miles at 55 mph make it something like only 37 miles at 65 mph with A/C and a few hills?

If so, just getting the 38 miles (one way) to work would be a problem.

Maybe I will need to continue to use the Prius until the LEAF-V2 comes out?

 

[DeaneG]

.. While the climate control system may run at a higher amperage while I'm in motion (where I can't monitor just resting draw), I doubt it's much higher than the 5 amps or so b/c even when running nearly full blast that's as high as I've observed.

So that's 5 amps at about 350 volts in your Prius, or about 1750 watts?

 

[Nubo]

If you drive with the windows down, the additional drag at higher speeds will give you less range than with the windows up.

True enough. Will have to see how that plays based on speed, vs using the AC. I imagine the amount of range information is going to be asymptotic. We'll get the basics from the press releases, then a lull until launch and then a flood of details once the cars start hitting the roads. But there's plenty of info available from other EVs and no reason to believe that Leaf will deviate inexplicably from those patterns.

 

[mitch672]

Ecotality and EV Project has fast chargers planned between Tucson and Phoenix. I'm not sure where or how many. At the Forum meeting I went to with their representatives, they said there is also a plan to connect Phoenix with San Diego with fast chargers, but this will be a long-range plan, maybe 5 years from now.

I do think they plan on LEAFs being driven between cities, on interstate highways, otherwise these chargers would not be installed.

I asked about plugging in my LEAF with 120V line. The answer is no. There are so many rules and regulations at public school sites. Having a very long extension cord from the building, out to the parking lot, would be considered a safety hazard. I can't park near the building because that is a fire hazard and also reserved for the fire department if the school is burning down. Believe me, I've already been down this road, and it's not going to happen. The only way that the EV Project could locate a charger at my school would be to bring in the electricity from the electrical line at the street. The school district can not pay for the electricity to charge one employee's car. It's never simple.

I think "Coulomb" has some grants availble...

couldn't hurt to fill out the application..

http://www.motherearthnews.com/blogs/blog.aspx?blogid=1500&tag=New%20York

 

[garygid]

I guess we need to see some real freeay-use figures.

Maybe some dealer will have a rent-a-LEAF for a full-day, real commute test?
It would be worth $30 (or so) to try my real commute.

But, I would still need a full charge at work, so a plug-in 240v EVSE would be needed.

 

[mwalsh]

Perhaps it is 70 miles at a STEADY 55 mph, with no stops or acceleration? Not real world traffic?

If the real "motorway" driving, with some stop and go, A/C, and typical speeds of 50 mph (81kph) give only 78km (49 mile) range, what will real CA freeway driving get?

With some hills and stop/go before I get to the freeway, will I even make it the 40 miles one way to work ... if I try to be "safe" and keep up with the freeway traffic?

Then, if I can just make it, I would probably need a full charge to get home.

It's freaking me out just a little too.

I can make compromises when it comes to the AC. Nubo mentions his Miata.....none of my LBCs (Little British Cars) have AC and what I usually do when I drive those in summer is drive to work in business attire (because I rarely need the AC in the mornings) and then change to shorts and a t-shirt for the drive home.

Remember too that we'll also be able to pre-cool the cabin before disconnecting from the grid. Does anyone care to guess what effect pre-cooling would have when only plugged into 120v? I would assume it would be a wash.

We'll also be able to toggle between AC and Recirculation while driving, and remember the ECO mode with reduced performance and AC output.....we don't yet know what that will mean for real-world range.

 

[mwalsh]

isnt that with "heavy stop and go on freeway?"

No, we're talking about the bottom right hand quadrant of that chart shown in the picture. It shows 50mph on the equivalent of an "A" road in the UK - a two or three lane highway with slowing for (and acceleration from) roundabouts (traffic circles) used for traffic management.