Real World DC quick charge times.

[91040]

Eaton DCQC at the Mitsubishi HQ in Cypress, CA to an "80%" charge.

Start: battery 387V, 33.4%/94Gids, 5 temperature bars
End: battery 390.5V, 76.1%/214Gids, 6 temperature bars
elapsed time: 24.5 minutes
Delivered: 9.9kWh

 

[Rat]

I find the numbers in this thread confusing and not particularly helpful. I think a better way to measure is how many extra miles of driving at freeway speed you get per minute of QC time. You don't need the QC for charging at work or home; it's mainly useful for continuing on a longer trip quickly, which means freeway speeds.

Recently I charged at the Blink QC in Belmont, CA at the VW EV lab. I didn't really need the charge as I had 59 miles showing on my GOM, but I wanted to make sure I knew how to use the unit and that my Blink card worked okay. I did not look at the number of bars when I started or ended. When I plugged in, the Blink said I had 50% charge and gave me the option only of charging to 60% or 80%. I chose 80% and took a walk. The middle blue light was on when I started. I got back at 13 minutes and watched as it went from 78% to 80%. It hit 80% (according to the Blink) at exactly 15 minutes. I did not look at the GOM or number of bars at that point since I knew I had plenty of range, but I was surprised the middle blue light was still on. I drove another 21 to 22 miles to get home. When I got home the GOM showed somewhere in the low 50s left, I think 53 to 55 miles. I realize the GOM is not so accurate and that number may have been affected by the fact I was freeway driving for that last stretch, but I had been doing a mix of freeway and local driving right before pulling up to the QC, so if it's at all consistent, I had less of a charge left then than I did when pulling into the QC site. I think at best 15 minutes on the QC got me 22 miles of added range, or 1.46 miles per minute, and it was probably more like 16 to 18 miles of added range, so barely over 1 mile per minute. And that's with no attempt to charge past 80%. We aren't going to get EVs going mainstream if that is the top charging speed.

This highlights the need for QCs everywhere, like gas stations, so you can drive it down to 10% or so SOC before charging, knowing that there is a QC station nearby. It's also making me regret the decision to switch from the SV to SL. Even with the EV Project subsidy it's cost me almost $3000 and this QC option isn't worth as much as I thought.

 

[planet4ever]

I find the numbers in this thread confusing and not particularly helpful. I think a better way to measure is how many extra miles of driving at freeway speed you get per minute of QC time.

"Extra miles at freeway speed" is highly variable, depending on your preferred speed, how much traffic there is, elevation changes, wind, how you drive, etc. At least kWh is an objective base from which we can estimate those other factors in our own situation.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

I find the numbers in this thread confusing and not particularly helpful. I think a better way to measure is how many extra miles of driving at freeway speed you get per minute of QC time.

"Extra miles at freeway speed" is highly variable, depending on your preferred speed, how much traffic there is, elevation changes, wind, how you drive, etc. At least kWh is an objective base from which we can estimate those other factors in our own situation.

Ray

+1

The one size fits all model just isn't that. I will use QC regularly, and not because I need "more freeway miles".

Actually, I very rarely drive outside an area that would exceed the round trip range of the LEAF, but I frequently need additional charge. QC would work good, or a bigger battery. Or both.

 

[LEAFfan]

Recently I charged at the Blink QC in Belmont, CA at the VW EV lab. When I plugged in, the Blink said I had 50% charge and gave me the option only of charging to 60% or 80%. I chose 80% and took a walk. The middle blue light was on when I started. I got back at 13 minutes and watched as it went from 78% to 80%. It hit 80% (according to the Blink) at exactly 15 minutes.

Since you used a Blink QC and it read you were at 50%, you were actually below 50%. You need to push 'other options' or something similar to go to another screen and then you can choose others, including 90% and 100%. Since you chose 80%, that means when it shut off you were only at an actual 70% which may explain the middle light. If you had chosen 90% or 100%, you would have received 80%/ten bars. If you had 6 bars or just above 50% (actual), and chosen 100%, it would have charged to 90 some percent, depending on different factors. You will never get a full 100% using QC like you could with L2. The highest I ever remember getting was 91%.

 

[grommet]

Yes, pick "other" on the Blink DC... and choose 100% (or 90%) and let the LEAF stop the charge unless you are in a rush and want less. The CHAdeMO SOC seen on the Blink does not reflect what you see in the LEAF.

 

[adric22]

I find the numbers in this thread confusing and not particularly helpful. I think a better way to measure is how many extra miles of driving at freeway speed you get per minute of QC time.

Also keep in mind that the charge speed will vary with current SOC and battery temperature.

 

[Rat]

Recently I charged at the Blink QC in Belmont, CA at the VW EV lab. When I plugged in, the Blink said I had 50% charge and gave me the option only of charging to 60% or 80%. I chose 80% and took a walk. The middle blue light was on when I started. I got back at 13 minutes and watched as it went from 78% to 80%. It hit 80% (according to the Blink) at exactly 15 minutes.

Since you used a Blink QC and it read you were at 50%, you were actually below 50%. You need to push 'other options' or something similar to go to another screen and then you can choose others, including 90% and 100%. Since you chose 80%, that means when it shut off you were only at an actual 70% which may explain the middle light. If you had chosen 90% or 100%, you would have received 80%/ten bars. If you had 6 bars or just above 50% (actual), and chosen 100%, it would have charged to 90 some percent, depending on different factors. You will never get a full 100% using QC like you could with L2. The highest I ever remember getting was 91%.

I'm surprised at the amount of debate or comment my post spurred. First let me say I don't mean to be argumentative, as I respect the knowledge of the others here, and if they find Kwh or other methods of measuring QC value that works for them, I say use them. But I still disagree. I think there are factual and logical errors in some of the responses.

I won't get into the numbers or assumptions people have made on my specific single QC experience again, as I think that's beside the point and could lead to more argument. Rather, I'd like to address the way this thread is providing information. I am not a technogeek. My choice of an EV is based on a desire to protect the environment and wean America from foreign oil dependence. For that to happen EVs must become mainstream vehicles, accepted by the masses, not a niche vehicle. That will not happen unless the ordinary driver's experience is virtually indistinguishable from what an ICE driver's is now, other than plugging in at home at night and not having to go to a gas station or service the vehicle. I remain convinced that the vast majority of drivers (and car buyers) just want to know how far they can go before they have to "fill up" again. They, like me, do not want to think in terms of kwh or even mpg or mpge. Just "will it get me there and back, and if not, how long will I have to sit at a charging station?" The earlier post in this thread from TomT:

One big difference though, is when I gas up the ICE, I can go 400 real miles before I have to do it again...

is proof enough for me. Gas mileage varies a lot, too, but Tom is able to express this simple concept in a way that is readily digestible by other drivers who may drive differently. When people ask me about the Leaf they never ask me about how many kwh it takes. They ask only two questions: How far will it go on a charge and how long does it take to charge. Until we can answer those two questions to the satisfaction of the majority of Americans, the Leaf and all EVs will remain novelty vehicles and fail to meet the goals I have for mine. This thread would be more useful IMO if it expressed the results in those terms, X minutes at the QC = Y extra miles and cost Z dollars/cents. If TomT can do it with gas, we can do it with our QC experiences.

 

[JPVLeaf]

... as I respect the knowledge of the others here, and if they find Kwh or other methods of measuring QC value that works for them, I say use them.

The replies to the OP are in terms of kwh's is because that's one of the specific terms that the OP wanted. Therefore, I assume the OP knows what to do with the numbers and how to make the necessary calcs to match his driving style, etc.

 

[RegGuheert]

My choice of an EV is based on a desire to protect the environment and wean America from foreign oil dependence.

As is mine, and likely also that of many of the American posters here.

For that to happen EVs must become mainstream vehicles, accepted by the masses, not a niche vehicle. That will not happen unless the ordinary driver's experience is virtually indistinguishable from what an ICE driver's is now, other than plugging in at home at night and not having to go to a gas station or service the vehicle.

I disagree that this is a requirement for the acceptance of EVs, even BEVs. Instead of duplicating the experience of ICEs, EVs must offer tangible benefits over ICEs in some areas, but it is OK to trade off some drawbacks and still have a rapid transition.

The earlier post in this thread from TomT:

One big difference though, is when I gas up the ICE, I can go 400 real miles before I have to do it again...

is proof enough for me. Gas mileage varies a lot, too, but Tom is able to express this simple concept in a way that is readily digestible by other drivers who may drive differently.

Gas mileage does not vary as much as EV mileage. This is because an EV is significantly mor efficient than an ICE. As a result, smaller things have a larger impact on efficiency.

When people ask me about the Leaf they never ask me about how many kwh it takes. They ask only two questions: How far will it go on a charge and how long does it take to charge.

Agreed. Those are EXACTLY the two questions people ask me.

Until we can answer those two questions to the satisfaction of the majority of Americans, the Leaf and all EVs will remain novelty vehicles and fail to meet the goals I have for mine.

Yes, BEVs will need to meet the needs of customers to be accepted.

This thread would be more useful IMO if it expressed the results in those terms, X minutes at the QC = Y extra miles and cost Z dollars/cents. If TomT can do it with gas, we can do it with our QC experiences.

I agree that fuel cost is what gets lost in the discussions. It is cost which will ultimately drive BEV adoption. Unfortunately, Americans are not used to factoring fuel costs into their vehicle expenses. But that is changing as gasoline prices go up.

This transition is a process and it cannot be done overnight. BEVs are not yet capable to take over enough of the functions of ICEs to allow most users to have them as their ONLY vehicles. But it will happen.

 

[surfingslovak]

When people ask me about the Leaf they never ask me about how many kwh it takes. They ask only two questions: How far will it go on a charge and how long does it take to charge. Until we can answer those two questions to the satisfaction of the majority of Americans, the Leaf and all EVs will remain novelty vehicles and fail to meet the goals I have for mine.

Agreed. Those are EXACTLY the two questions people ask me.

Yes, this is a very good way to see it. I would like to point out that people can think for themselves, and are willing to make trade-offs.
These vehicles offer compelling advantages: a superior driving experience and dramatically lower operational costs. If the price is right, this alone can win them significant market acceptance.

I agree that fuel cost is what gets lost in the discussions. It is cost which will ultimately drive BEV adoption. Unfortunately, Americans are not used to factoring fuel costs into their vehicle expenses. But that is changing as gasoline prices go up.

This transition is a process and it cannot be done overnight. BEVs are not yet capable to take over enough of the functions of ICEs to allow most users to have them as their ONLY vehicles. But it will happen.

This could be addressed by battery leases, much like Renault is doing in Europe. Alternatively, a thoughtfully structured full vehicle lease might work too. It would provide the buyer with a fixed monthly expense, which will offset the old gas bill partially or in full. That would make a direct comparison easier. Additionally, we don't know where gas prices will go next. If they keep creeping up, many buyers might agree that it's better to have a locked-in fixed cost. An electric drive train works like a hedge against oil price increases. "Never worry about gas prices again" could be a compelling sales argument.