Red Leaf in Toronto: Honeymoon is over/charging questions

[dgpcolorado]

RedMapleLeaf, please be aware that the LEAF timers can be set for Climate Control timer priority or for charge priority. I have my preheating set for CC priority so it does affect the SOC of the car, not that I care. If you do care, you might set your car for charge priority to see if that makes much difference when preheating.

• If charging timer and the Climate Ctrl. Timer are operating at the same time due to an overlap of the timer settings, you can prioritize which function receives electrical power first.
• When charging is set as the first priority, the Climate Ctrl. Timer does not start until 10 segments of the Li-ion battery available charge gauge are illuminated.
• When the climate control is set as the first priority, the climate control system will be turned on as scheduled by the Climate Ctrl. Timer regardless of the remaining battery energy.
• Even when the climate control is set as the first priority, the climate control system will be turned off when the climate control system requires more power than can be provided to the Li-ion battery for charging.
• The Li-ion battery will not charge when the charge connector is connected to the vehicle until the next scheduled charge start time when the charge timer is active. If necessary, use immediate charge or remote charge to charge the Li-ion battery.

Navigation Manual page 2-13

For me, having the car preheated is more important than small differences in SOC because it allows me to make my trip using just the steering wheel and seat heaters and I rarely need a full 100% to make any routine trip. YMMV.

 

[RedMapleLeaf]

RedMapleLeaf, please be aware that the LEAF timers can be set for Climate Control timer priority or for charge priority. I have my preheating set for CC priority so it does affect the SOC of the car, not that I care. If you do care, you might set your car for charge priority to see if that makes much difference when preheating.

• If charging timer and the Climate Ctrl. Timer are operating at the same time due to an overlap of the timer settings, you can prioritize which function receives electrical power first.
• When charging is set as the first priority, the Climate Ctrl. Timer does not start until 10 segments of the Li-ion battery available charge gauge are illuminated.
• When the climate control is set as the first priority, the climate control system will be turned on as scheduled by the Climate Ctrl. Timer regardless of the remaining battery energy.
• Even when the climate control is set as the first priority, the climate control system will be turned off when the climate control system requires more power than can be provided to the Li-ion battery for charging.
• The Li-ion battery will not charge when the charge connector is connected to the vehicle until the next scheduled charge start time when the charge timer is active. If necessary, use immediate charge or remote charge to charge the Li-ion battery.

Navigation Manual page 2-13

For me, having the car preheated is more important than small differences in SOC because it allows me to make my trip using just the steering wheel and seat heaters and I rarely need a full 100% to make any routine trip. YMMV.

Thanks for the reply dgpcolorado,

My priority has always been set to Charging.

I tried another test today, where I turned on CC via the iPhone app while the car was sitting in the garage (11 deg C/52 deg F ambient) at 80% SOC (meaning, according to the display, I showed 0 minutes to 80% for either 120V or 240V). After having CC on for 50 minutes, the SOC according to the same display was the same: 0 minutes to 80%. At the current ambient temp, I'm theorizing that with the available power (240V @ 16A) the dock could supply all it needed for the CC needs at that ambient temperature.

I'll do another test at work when it's colder and with my 208V supply, but I'm guessing that initially there is a higher power draw esp. when it's colder outside, and if the CC is only on for a few minutes, you might see a drop in SOC as the CC takes some from the battery as well as the wall. I have verified this at work with 208V -- if I turn on CC via iPhone and get in to the car 15 minutes later (2 deg C/36 deg F outside) the display states 20 minutes to 80% @ 240V. I'm sure I've seen that if I leave the CC on long enough, the draw reduces as the car warms up, and the SOC will come back up or even increase, but I'll have to verify this.

BTW, I cannot make sense of this statement from the manual:

• Even when the climate control is set as the first priority, the climate control system will be turned off when the climate control system requires more power than can be provided to the Li-ion battery for charging.

Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[dgpcolorado]

...I'm sure I've seen that if I leave the CC on long enough, the draw reduces as the car warms up, and the SOC will come back up or even increase, but I'll have to verify this.

Others have reported this. Using the CC timer will cause the charge to increase if it isn't already at 100% once the initial draw from heating the system has come down.

BTW, I cannot make sense of this statement from the manual:

• Even when the climate control is set as the first priority, the climate control system will be turned off when the climate control system requires more power than can be provided to the Li-ion battery for charging.

Can anyone explain this to me?

I don't understand it either. The fact that the CC timer will work with L1 charging (as a number of people have reported) suggests that it will draw from the battery pack as needed. Perhaps it will only do so at certain charge levels. For example: with charge priority it will only do so if the pack is at more than 80%. Just guessing though.

...I tried another test today, where I turned on CC via the iPhone app while the car was sitting in the garage (11 deg C/52 deg F ambient) at 80% SOC (meaning, according to the display, I showed 0 minutes to 80% for either 120V or 240V). After having CC on for 50 minutes, the SOC according to the same display was the same: 0 minutes to 80%. At the current ambient temp, I'm theorizing that with the available power (240V @ 16A) the dock could supply all it needed for the CC needs at that ambient temperature...

I think that L2 charging will supply all of what the CC system needs after the initial heat-up of the coolant. After that charging will resume and if the preheating is left on for more than a few minutes the charge of the car will increase, regardless of what you have the charge timer set for.

Please be careful about interpreting the "0 minutes to 80%" numbers. Those numbers are very coarse and not likely to be precise enough to read any sort of fine detail about the actual SOC of the car.

You will find that you only have to preheat your car for a short time in moderately cold temperatures. You should be able to determine this from practice. In very cold temperatures, say -15ºC and below, it may take awhile to heat things up enough to melt snow and ice on the windshield. There isn't much point in preheating beyond the minimum needed to get the desired comfort level because the LEAF isn't well insulated, so running it longer than necessary is just heating the great outdoors (or garage).

 

[RedMapleLeaf]

I think that L2 charging will supply all of what the CC system needs after the initial heat-up of the coolant. After that charging will resume and if the preheating is left on for more than a few minutes the charge of the car will increase, regardless of what you have the charge timer set for.

Thanks for the thoughts. My question (of CC activity affecting SOC) is only about working the CC after charging has stopped. In all these scenarios, charging is long over and the SOC is 80%. So there's no confusion about interference or overlap between timers or priority. I'm just concerned that any CC activity performed post-charging is affecting that level. I want to understand it, because if the SOC drops too low below 80% I'm not comfortable with the commute. If the SOC goes above 80% then I'm topping off, which is worse. After the surprise of the news that the CC and battery charging share the same "circuitry" so to speak, i.e., they affect each other and share the input power, I can't be cavalier about thinking "Oh, I'm plugged in; go ahead and use remote-turn-on CC however you like." I'm also probably being overy concerned now about the whole battery-capacity-loss thing. :shock:

Please be careful about interpreting the "0 minutes to 80%" numbers. Those numbers are very coarse and not likely to be precise enough to read any sort of fine detail about the actual SOC of the car.

Understood. However, if I do get in the car and see 20 min left to 80% at 240V, I sure something affected the SOC. Also, when I see 11 bars after some CC activity I know something's happened there too. Can't wait for the LeafScan!

You will find that you only have to preheat your car for a short time in moderately cold temperatures. You should be able to determine this from practice. In very cold temperatures, say -15ºC and below, it may take awhile to heat things up enough to melt snow and ice on the windshield. There isn't much point in preheating beyond the minimum needed to get the desired comfort level because the LEAF isn't well insulated, so running it longer than necessary is just heating the great outdoors (or garage).

Also understood. One of the first things that surprised me in my first winter was how quickly heat disappears from the car at highway speeds, esp. into a stiff wind.

Thanks to everyone for their extensive and detailed responses.