Sacramento Area Leafs Meeting [Thread Retired]
- Thread starter JeremyW
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FlyingDollarGarage
Member
Right you are, LEAFer.
I didn't know that Tesla uses a different EVSE than us, but an email to a Tesla-owning friend brought the facts - as you did. But there are numerous other places with L2.
Yes, the trip! I'm dying to do it. The AMTRAK station at Colfax is the last L2 gasp until the Historical Society just outside of Truckee. It is 42-1/2 miles of climbing and I am pretty scared witless by it! My Tesla friend says his car loses about 7-1/2 miles per 1,000 feet of elevation gain. There is about 4,600' gain from Colfax to the summit, so his roadster would lose about 35 miles of range just from the vertical climb. Add that to the forward travel and it comes out to a scary 77 miles' worth! There would be around 8 miles of regen from the summit down to Truckee.
For the return trip, I was wondering about the gain regen offers. Since Lodi (and everywhere else the car has been) is flat as a pancake, I don't have any real world experience of regen coasting down long hills. Assuming I can make it to North Shore, I'm confident I can make it over the crest and then coast for 40 miles. But what kind of charge levels do I need or want for THAT trip? I want the speed dampening of regen, so I probably don't want to be fully charges when I hit the road to go home, will 40 miles of coasting down the western slope of the Sierras charge the battery completely?
I didn't know that Tesla uses a different EVSE than us, but an email to a Tesla-owning friend brought the facts - as you did. But there are numerous other places with L2.
Yes, the trip! I'm dying to do it. The AMTRAK station at Colfax is the last L2 gasp until the Historical Society just outside of Truckee. It is 42-1/2 miles of climbing and I am pretty scared witless by it! My Tesla friend says his car loses about 7-1/2 miles per 1,000 feet of elevation gain. There is about 4,600' gain from Colfax to the summit, so his roadster would lose about 35 miles of range just from the vertical climb. Add that to the forward travel and it comes out to a scary 77 miles' worth! There would be around 8 miles of regen from the summit down to Truckee.
For the return trip, I was wondering about the gain regen offers. Since Lodi (and everywhere else the car has been) is flat as a pancake, I don't have any real world experience of regen coasting down long hills. Assuming I can make it to North Shore, I'm confident I can make it over the crest and then coast for 40 miles. But what kind of charge levels do I need or want for THAT trip? I want the speed dampening of regen, so I probably don't want to be fully charges when I hit the road to go home, will 40 miles of coasting down the western slope of the Sierras charge the battery completely?
LEAFer
Well-known member
Assuming LEAF driver only, I would allocate 1.3kWh per 1,000 feet = approx 6kWh for a 4,600 foot vertical climb. That leaves you (19 - 6 ) = 13 kWh for the 42 miles. ( I am very conservatively estimating 19 kWh usable at 100% charge. ) So I believe it's doable.
( The Roadster should be closer to 1.1 kWh/1,000 feet climb. His miles lost on the way up ... well that depends on whether he's talking Ideal or Estimated miles. But I won't disagree with actual experience
)
Not sure about the regen filling the battery on the way down. Abasile might be able to help us
( The Roadster should be closer to 1.1 kWh/1,000 feet climb. His miles lost on the way up ... well that depends on whether he's talking Ideal or Estimated miles. But I won't disagree with actual experience
)Not sure about the regen filling the battery on the way down. Abasile might be able to help us
JeremyW
Well-known member
As far as location, are the Folsom Outlets (or the vicinity, we can probably shuffle people/cars around) looking good for the out of towners or do we need to meet somewhere more in Sacramento proper? I don't know the area outside my little bubble too well, so others in the area that know of some good eats that have charging nearby, speak up! And speaking of eats, are we thinking breakfast or lunch?
LEAFer said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
LEAFer said:Assuming LEAF driver only, I would allocate 1.3kWh per 1,000 feet = approx 6kWh for a 4,600 foot vertical climb. That leaves you (19 - 6 ) = 13 kWh for the 42 miles. ( I am very conservatively estimating 19 kWh usable at 100% charge. ) So I believe it's doable....
Not sure about the regen filling the battery on the way down. Abasile might be able to help us
How did you arrive at 1.3kWh per 1,000 feet, LEAFer? That does sound a little low to me, at least at freeway speeds, on steep grades where efficiency will decrease somewhat.
I haven't done 80 in a LEAF, but remember that road fairly well.
Yes, it is "doable", but only at the right speed, I'd expect somewhere in the fifty-something, rather than sixty-something mph average range, and even driving that slowly, you will still almost certainly be past the LBW at the summit.
You actually will probably not get a great deal of regen on the way down, as freeway speeds will probably require some energy use over much of the descent (the slow truck traffic you paced on the way up will probably not want to drive that slowly on the way down) but you will recover most of the descent energy directly without using regen, which is far more efficient anyway.
If I were you, I'd probably try to find an RV park or other recharge point, at least as a fall-back option, the first time you try it.
Check out the distances, profile, and CW energy use and regen on this trip:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Driving much slower than freeway speed, I crest Hatchet mountain summit, the second time on the return, at ~71 miles and with ~5,000 ft total and ~2500 ft net ascent on this trip.
Even in over 80 F charging and driving temperatures, I nearly always get the LBW, and the GOM blinking ~6 miles, just before I reach the pass, when I'm still 26+ miles from my next charge point, my home.
Even having done it many times, I still find it annoying, and experience some anxiety, climbing to the pass, and waiting for the LBW. I have never seen the VLBW before this pass, and I never want to.
On the other hand, it's also nice when the LBW turns off, and to get my second charge bar back (usually-depending on my speed and regen) as I descend towards home.
GRA
Well-known member
For those who want to try it (If I could rent an EV with a 6.6 kW charger, I would), there are lots of frontage roads you can take between Colfax and Truckee, most of which is old Hwy 40, so you don't have to stick to I-80. Try the CSAA 'Gold Country' and 'Lake Tahoe' maps, although the latter has just been combined with the 'Yosemite' Map and is far less useful than it used to be (CSAA has recently outsourced their maps to a private company). Just be sure to do the trip before 40 gets closed from Donner Pass* down to Donner Lake for the winter. Alternatively, just find yourself a heavily-loaded truck to pace on I-80, and stay in the truck climbing lane. BTW, the only large-scale test I'm aware of that averaged energy used while climbing came up with 1.5 kWh/1,000 feet for the Leaf.
The trip should be doable eastbound, and a piece of cake from Truckee. You should be able to make Auburn and maybe even Sacramento on the return. One of the MNL posters, Randy3, recently drove from Yosemite Valley up to Tuolumne Meadows, ~56 miles and 4,600 feet of climb, and used 11 of 12 bars on the way up (driving at 35 generally, no HVAC, and an estimated 7-10% battery degradation). He used 3 bars coming back down:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
*not Donner Summit.
The trip should be doable eastbound, and a piece of cake from Truckee. You should be able to make Auburn and maybe even Sacramento on the return. One of the MNL posters, Randy3, recently drove from Yosemite Valley up to Tuolumne Meadows, ~56 miles and 4,600 feet of climb, and used 11 of 12 bars on the way up (driving at 35 generally, no HVAC, and an estimated 7-10% battery degradation). He used 3 bars coming back down:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
*not Donner Summit.
Ingineer
Well-known member
I'd love to come, but again this falls on the same date as our local BayLEAFs meet-up. =(
-Phil
-Phil
JeremyW
Well-known member
Ingineer said:
Sorry Phil, I thought I picked my date before the SF group did, but in any case I hope to not conflict with it in future months. We'd love to see you out here!
LEAFer
Well-known member
I don't want to hijack this thread any moreedatoakrun said:How did you arrive at 1.3kWh per 1,000 feet, LEAFer? That does sound a little low to me, at least at freeway speeds, on steep grades where efficiency will decrease somewhat. ...LEAFer said:Assuming LEAF driver only, I would allocate 1.3kWh per 1,000 feet = approx 6kWh for a 4,600 foot vertical climb. That leaves you (19 - 6 ) = 13 kWh for the 42 miles. ( I am very conservatively estimating 19 kWh usable at 100% charge. ) So I believe it's doable....
Not sure about the regen filling the battery on the way down. Abasile might be able to help us
If someone could volunteer to create a new topic to discuss the Tahoe trip ... or better yet someone with a little more time than me (at the moment) ... create a topic that references links to the MANY hill climb trips already made ? But just to answer where I got the 1.3kWh/1,000 feet from, here's two links: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=309&p=6025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1659&p=32777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.FlyingDollarGarage
Member
OK!
If we are all in for the 13th, we need a time and place.
Downtown?
Capitol Mall?
A dealership?
A park?
Picnic style?
Restaurant?
No food?
Sit down?
Mill around?
If we are all in for the 13th, we need a time and place.
Downtown?
Capitol Mall?
A dealership?
A park?
Picnic style?
Restaurant?
No food?
Sit down?
Mill around?
LEAFer
Well-known member
Food would be good. :lol:
I would suggest the Folsom Premium Outlet location of the Tesla Supercharger ("Green Arrow"). In the same parking lot, about 300 feet to the East is a Mexican Style Restaurant "Casa Ramos" (website).
This is the site of our National Plug-In Day event. The two ChargePoint stations are *NOT* free, however, there's a Nissan Dealer nearby (1.5 miles, Future Nissan) for additional FREE charging.
Due to lunch time crowds I would suggest a mid-morning arrival. However, I just called Casa Ramos ... they don't open until 11am, and it usually does not get busy until 12N. So if we show up around 10:15-10:30 and "network" in the (plenty-big) parking lot, plus shuttle a few of us that need charging to the Nissan Dealer ... we should be able to enjoy 11a-12N relatively calm in the restaurant.
There are also other restaurants nearby (McD, Pizzarias, Delis, etc). Other suggestions welcome.
@JeremyW: could you post a list of Yea/Nay RSVP's in the OP ? Might want to advise Casa Ramos of our headcount.
I would suggest the Folsom Premium Outlet location of the Tesla Supercharger ("Green Arrow"). In the same parking lot, about 300 feet to the East is a Mexican Style Restaurant "Casa Ramos" (website).
This is the site of our National Plug-In Day event. The two ChargePoint stations are *NOT* free, however, there's a Nissan Dealer nearby (1.5 miles, Future Nissan) for additional FREE charging.
Due to lunch time crowds I would suggest a mid-morning arrival. However, I just called Casa Ramos ... they don't open until 11am, and it usually does not get busy until 12N. So if we show up around 10:15-10:30 and "network" in the (plenty-big) parking lot, plus shuttle a few of us that need charging to the Nissan Dealer ... we should be able to enjoy 11a-12N relatively calm in the restaurant.
There are also other restaurants nearby (McD, Pizzarias, Delis, etc). Other suggestions welcome.
@JeremyW: could you post a list of Yea/Nay RSVP's in the OP ? Might want to advise Casa Ramos of our headcount.
JeremyW
Well-known member
LEAFer said:
Sounds like a plan!
There's also free charging at the Whole Foods up Iron Point as a plan B for charging. I'll update the OP.Current unoffical list:
Harv
palmermd
jmillington
FlyingDollarGarage (?)
LEAFer
GeekEV
vin944
Yay or nay folks?
LEAFer
Well-known member
Yay: headcount of 1.
palmermd
Well-known member
My wife and I will be there assuming she does not go into labor between now and then. Baby is not due until the 24th, but you never know.
bernie82
Well-known member
Deal me in!
Bernie, Sacramento
Bernie, Sacramento
FlyingDollarGarage
Member
I'm in! S.O. has to work, so will be solo.
LEAFer
Well-known member
I contacted a few non-MNL posters. Add one more LEAF with headcount of 2; let's refer to them as T&V.
JeremyW
Well-known member
Confirmed List:
JeremyW
LEAFer + (T&V)
palmermd
bernie82
FlyingDollarGarage
Unconfirmed:
Harv
jmillington
GeekEV
vin944
We've got a reservation for 12 people at Casa Ramos (400 Iron Point Road, Folsom) for 11 am.
JeremyW
LEAFer + (T&V)
palmermd
bernie82
FlyingDollarGarage
Unconfirmed:
Harv
jmillington
GeekEV
vin944
We've got a reservation for 12 people at Casa Ramos (400 Iron Point Road, Folsom) for 11 am.
I guess I missed this thread. I will be there. I was at Folsom for a bike ride yesterday and could not charge at the outlets because my Chargepoint card did not work on the $2/hr charging station. Most annoying but Future Nissan has three stations. The Walgreen chargepoint is also a fee station. I was beginning to wonder if the Sac group had faded away.
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