SDG&E EV study rate increase

[davekern]

So our local public radio / TV station picked up the story. Check it out here:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/jun/19/sdge-broke-promise-reduced-rates-some-electric-veh/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now SDG&E says the letter in August saying we could keep our rates was a mistake...

 

[lkkms2]

Now looking at the fine print of my last bill, what one can see is that for some reason the new rate structure really shifts on-peak cost of electricity from delivery to generation. Not sure why...

I noticed the same thing. What is going on???? What is behind the madness?

 

[ttweed]

To me the worst thing about the new rates is they provide no incentive to stay on a TOU rate and no incentive to charge overnight.

Absolutely true. I can do better on DR rates than TOU now, and be able to charge the car anytime I want! I just got the letter today reneging on their promise to keep the EV Project rates unchanged until the end of the year, and the increases are unbelievable. I went from $.07 Super Off-peak to $.13, and Off-peak summer rate went from $.17 to $.30. And an On-peak rate of $.74/kWh??? It looks like the worst Tier 4 DR rate is about $.27!

WTF?
TT

 

[lonndoggie]

I went from $.07 Super Off-peak to $.013, and On-peak summer rate went from $.17 to $.30. And an On-peak rate of $.74/kWh??? It looks like the worst Tier 4 DR rate is about $.27!

So apparently there are still different rates for different people? I got my letter, and my new summer rates are different than yours:

Super Off-Peak: $0.14 (I assume you meant $0.13--$.013, sign me up!)
Off Peak: $0.34 (yours $0.30, assuming that was Off-peak, not On-peak)
On-Peak: $0.54 (yours $0.74). Note that mine also says changing to TBD on August 1st.

The rate structure title is EPEV-Y. So maybe there still are different X, Y and Z rate structures, with the common feature being that they're all higher?

 

[lonndoggie]

What's really needed is a way to run your historic data through different rate structures for the last year so you can make an educated decision. The only way I know of to do this now is to use Bidgely, but it's a bit of a pain. (actually, now that I've done it it appears that I should switch from my current setup of DR + EV-TOU meter to whole house EV-TOU2 - doing so would have dropped my annual bill from ~$680 last 12 months to $490).

I gathered usage data from Energy Waves from Dec 2012 through Dec 2013 and compared my DR + EV meter rates with what single EV-TOU-2 would have been. During that time, I calculated a savings of about $160 by switching to EV-TOU-2.

I see the EV-TOU-2 rates have gone up a bit as well since I did that:

Summer             Was      Is
Super Off-Peak:    0.14     0.16
Off Peak:          0.17     0.20
Peak:              0.26     0.44

Winter             Was      Is
Super Off-Peak:    0.15     0.17
Off Peak:          0.17     0.19
Peak:              0.18     0.20

But even so, I'd imagine EV-TOU-2 would still provide a savings over DR+EV Meter (especially now that our EV rates took a significant jump). And no, our solar doesn't keep us out of tier 3 (or even tier 4) throughout the year, even with the Leaf on a separate meter, so going with DR for house+EV would be not a good option.

 

[DaveEV]

So apparently there are still different rates for different people?

Yes, there are still EPEV X/Y/Z rates and with X being basically the same as EV-TOU and Z having the highest spread between super-off-peak and on-peak rates. Rates went up significantly for all rate plans and those rate changes resulted in significant changes to the EPEV Y/Z rates probably because of how little peak usage those users see.

So everyone is still on the same rate plan, it just seems that everyone is upset that the great deal they were getting before is not so great, but if you still charge nearly all the time on super-off-peak you are still getting a great deal.

But even so, I'd imagine EV-TOU-2 would still provide a savings over DR+EV Meter (especially now that our EV rates took a significant jump). And no, our solar doesn't keep us out of tier 3 (or even tier 4) throughout the year, even with the Leaf on a separate meter, so going with DR for house+EV would be not a good option.

Yes, my rough calculations show that DR+EV-TOU is more expensive if you have solar than using DR-SES or EV-TOU2. It doesn't appear to be significant for me, though, only about $100/year. I only typically get into tier 3 currently for the house for a couple winter months at most.

So I will probably switch from DR+EV-TOU to EV-TOU2 or DR-SES soon. I'm also thinking of adding another kW or two of PV to further offset peak rates.

 

[derkraut]

Well....I received a letter from SDG&E yesterday (6/20/14) advising of the rate increase, which became effective in May. I am under their EPEV-Z schedule (separate meter for the Leaf):
One thing I noticed immediately is the $0.74 per KW for summer On-Peak usage ($0.64 for winter On-Peak).
So....let me figure this out. if I charge during On-Peak, and I average 4 miles per KW, that comes out to about $7.40 per 40 miles of driving. Hell, I can drive my 2006 Prius much cheaper than that, even with gas @ $4.00 per gallon.

Talk about an increase in electricity rates! What a ripoff. :x

 

[DaveEV]

Hell, I can drive my 2006 Prius much cheaper than that, even with gas @ $4.00 per gallon.

So don't charge on-peak. Isn't that the whole point of the EPEV rates? To find out how much spread between off-peak/on-peak prices it takes to keep people from charging on-peak?

If you're really worried about it, feel free to switch to regular EV-TOU rates (0.16 / 0.20 / 0.44 - super-off / off / on), but I suspect that for most keeping EPEV-Y or EPEV-Z rates still ends up being cheaper overall or a negligible difference in total cost.

 

[ttweed]

(I assume you meant $0.13--$.013)
[snipped]
(...assuming that was Off-peak, not On-peak)

Yes on both counts--edited my earlier post to correct it (note to self: do not post while furious).
TT

 

[derkraut]

Hell, I can drive my 2006 Prius much cheaper than that, even with gas @ $4.00 per gallon.

So don't charge on-peak. Isn't that the whole point of the EPEV rates? To find out how much spread between off-peak/on-peak prices it takes to keep people from charging on-peak?

If you're really worried about it, feel free to switch to regular EV-TOU rates (0.16 / 0.20 / 0.44 - super-off / off / on), but I suspect that for most keeping EPEV-Y or EPEV-Z rates still ends up being cheaper overall or a negligible difference in total cost.

Well, of course you're right, drees. I have been---and will continue to--- use Super Off Peak whenever possible. But I'm still dumbfounded by the jump in summer on-peak rates from $0.41 to $0.74.

 

[ttweed]

Hell, I can drive my 2006 Prius much cheaper than that, even with gas @ $4.00 per gallon.

So don't charge on-peak. Isn't that the whole point of the EPEV rates? To find out how much spread between off-peak/on-peak prices it takes to keep people from charging on-peak?

If you're really worried about it, feel free to switch to regular EV-TOU rates (0.16 / 0.20 / 0.44 - super-off / off / on), but I suspect that for most keeping EPEV-Y or EPEV-Z rates still ends up being cheaper overall or a negligible difference in total cost.

Well, of course you're right, drees. I have been---and will continue to--- use Super Off Peak whenever possible. But I'm still dumbfounded by the jump in summer on-peak rates from $0.41 to $0.74.

+1. It is also getting harder to avoid charging during on-peak periods as the battery degrades. There are days when a 100% charge is not enough anymore, and we have to charge mid-day to keep going or take one of the ICE cars.

I looked for the DR rates and found this:

Even Tier 4 in the summer is only $.38--it doesn't make sense to have the top TOU rate at $.74! I'm thinking I need another 220V plug wired to the house meter for mid-day charging...or just go to the EV-TOU rate on the EVSE meter.

TT

 

[electricfuture]

I have the "X" rate on an separate EV meter and received my letter yesterday - yes it is obvious that each rate schedule is receiving different rate increases.

Here is the X rate change:
Summer and Winter Super Off peak now : $.12 after August 1st $.18 a 50% increase

Now the bad news, they said I must change to a different rate by year end - good bye separate EV meter.

But it gets worse. SEMPRA (SDG&E's Parent) has a proposal into the PUC to have a flat rate $70 per household - which will go up over time. This is to kill solar energy and protect their profits. The only way around it is to be off grid with PV. I am considering a Volt as a backup long distance car doubling as a generator set if my future Tesla battery pack needs recharging.

SDG&E has had 5 years of record profits through the Great Recession and their CEO was reported today to make $7.2M per year. As a result of their ridiculous shut down of San Onofre Nuclear plant ($192M to repair and generate no emissions power versus over $7 billion and counting to shut it down), they are installing at least 4 greenhouse gas emitting turbines to make up for the shortage and a lot of new infrastructure. Our bills will go up in the future to cover this. Did I mention that the new gas turbines will burn SEMPRA provided gas? :evil:

 

[eHelmholtz]

I'm thinking I need another 220V plug wired to the house meter for mid-day charging...or just go to the EV-TOU rate on the EVSE meter.

That's what I do and have a separate EVSE for the house meter (I just built 2 OpenEVSEs). Also, interestingly, if you have a 30A charger on your car, Blink rates are no worse than super-off peak and certainly better than off-peak rates I think (at least for my EPEV-Y rate).

 

[hill]

Even Tier 4 in the summer is only $.38--it doesn't make sense to have the top TOU rate at $.74! I'm thinking I need another 220V plug wired to the house meter for mid-day charging...or just go to the EV-TOU rate on the EVSE meter.

TT

$.74 ....... jeeez!
I'm so glad I never applied for TOU. Being on good ol' PV / grid tied standard rates has been perfect. No issue about charging any time we want.
.

 

[DaveEV]

But I'm still dumbfounded by the jump in summer on-peak rates from $0.41 to $0.74.

That is quite baffling, but it appears that the peak rates have taken the brunt of the rate increases. I suspect that's because they are limited in their ability to raise base rates. I would love to see how these rate increases were calculated and the logic behind them.

Even Tier 4 in the summer is only $.38--it doesn't make sense to have the top TOU rate at $.74!

Except that you will rarely use summer on-peak rates on EPEV-Y/Z. If your whole house were on DR you'd get stuck paying $0.38 quite a bit unless you have solar. If you have solar, you probably want to be on DR-SES or EV-TOU2.

I'm thinking I need another 220V plug wired to the house meter for mid-day charging...or just go to the EV-TOU rate on the EVSE meter.

Do the math on how long it'd take to break even to run another 240V plug compared to how often you need to charge on-peak. Even if you bought a Quick220 or made an Easy240 you're probably talking multiple years to recoup your investment. If the payback is short, you probably just want to switch rate plans, anyway. I have an Easy240, but for the rare instance where it'd be useful (summer time, charging between 12pm-6pm), it's more hassle to pull everything out for that hour or two of charging. Of course, I rarely need this and I'm on the EPEV-X rate so we're only talking about $0.25 / kWh. At $0.50 / kWh I guess you might spend 5 minutes setting things up to save $2/hr. I still tend to just look at the average cost.

Last bill, I used 223 kWh super-off-peak ($0.17/kWh), 54 kWh off-peak ($0.21/kWh) 13 kWh on-peak ($0.35/kWh). I could have saved $3.24 off-peak + $2.60 on-peak by charging on the house meter. Average cost for the month was $0.19/kWh. I'm better off going DR-SES or probably even EV-TOU2 because EV-TOU2 on-peak rates still apply on weekends/holidays when DR-SES rates don't. Are other people using significantly more energy on-peak?

I'm so glad I never applied for TOU. Being on good ol' PV / grid tied standard rates has been perfect. No issue about charging any time we want.

If you don't get into the top tiers of the DR rates with PV, you are most likely giving up money by not using one of the TOU rates especially if you have PV and do the bulk of your charging before 11AM-12PM even though the DR rates do simplify things.

 

[annie]

I can no longer sit back and not say something . SDG&E is acting outrageous. The best new rate is a 50% increase. Super off peak is a period of time when they literally are throwing away electricity. They should be encouraging the use of electricity at that time. I guess they are by charging the outrageous amount of .70 during peak use. Are they trying to kill electric vehicles or just taking advantage of their monopoly

 

[lonndoggie]

If you don't get into the top tiers of the DR rates with PV, you are most likely giving up money by not using one of the TOU rates especially if you have PV and do the bulk of your charging before 11AM-12PM even though the DR rates do simplify things.

And even if you have PV and get into the top tiers of DR rates sometimes (like I do), you might still do better with TOU rates--depending on when the bulk of your usage is. If it's during peak hours, not so much.

 

[wongfeihong187]

I can no longer sit back and not say something . SDG&E is acting outrageous. The best new rate is a 50% increase. Super off peak is a period of time when they literally are throwing away electricity. They should be encouraging the use of electricity at that time. I guess they are by charging the outrageous amount of .70 during peak use. Are they trying to kill electric vehicles or just taking advantage of their monopoly

i personally think they are out to recoup as much money any way they can. I did the math with the regular residential rates vs the new TOU-2 rate and it comes out fairly even, with the TOU-2 rate savings about $10-20 difference. Best if it's economically feasible to go solar. :mrgreen:

 

[davekern]

But it gets worse. SEMPRA (SDG&E's Parent) has a proposal into the PUC to have a flat rate $70 per household - which will go up over time.

I am looking into adding more solar to cover the car. But, are you saying that the proposal is minimum of $70 per MONTH per household? That could kill my plans. It sucks how it is such a moving target...

Thanks for the help.

 

[hill]

If you don't get into the top tiers of the DR rates with PV, you are most likely giving up money by not using one of the TOU rates especially if you have PV and do the bulk of your charging before 11AM-12PM even though the DR rates do simplify things.

And even if you have PV and get into the top tiers of DR rates sometimes (like I do), you might still do better with TOU rates--depending on when the bulk of your usage is. If it's during peak hours, not so much.

EXACTLY. We run business equipment out of the home. If/when a customer comes over - you better make 'em comfortable, because they don't wana hear, "sorry TOU rats kill me if we run the AC right now ... would you like me to turn the ceiling fan up to hurricane level? .... of course if I do ... I'll have to turn the 3 remaining LED lights down to compensate for the higher wattage draw"
.