Smear Campagn against EV's being waged by Oil & Auto industr

[Sarterfish]

My wife is at a National Labor Conference in DC this week. It's a big one, President Obama spoke there this morining. She's had conversations with high level Union and labor officials regarding EV's. Many of the people she's spoken with see the benefit and virtues of EV's integration into the automotive sector, but NONE seem to believe it will last, just as the last attempt failed. It really comes as no surprise that the people she is speaking are all aware of and speak of the "smear campaign" being waged against EV's by the Oil & Gas industries, AND the auto industry as well. (Did you notice how there was NO fanfare with the release of the Ford Focus EV? Have you seen even ONE commercial for it?) The attack is somewhat silent, and VERY insidious.

I personally also have been responding on blogs by various Automobile industry publications, (Autoweek, Detroit Free Press, Car & Driver), and have received heated and even personal attacks even for pointing out the virtues, and financial benefits even of my personal EV experiences. One such rant was from a man who lives in Houston and has ties to Detroit. (Again, no surprise really). He declined to reveal what his source of employment and background is, but went to the trouble of looking me up personally to see what I do for a living, and accuse me of having "skin in the game". I design and build energy efficient structures. I use my LEAF to a great extent as a replacement for my 15 mpg truck. I save enough ion gas to COVER my fully financed payments.

My point here is that I am urging everyone to SPREAD THE WORD with regards to your experiences in driving your EV's whether they be a LEAF, a VOLT, a FOCUS, or an EV utility truck. Our nation, and the world, desperately needs to understand the long term AND the short term benefits of driving electric. In addition, if the EV industry in the U.S. "fails to launch", as it did in the mid 90's, our country will be left in the lithium "dust" of the rest of the automotive world.

Please remember to be an advocate for your choice to move this industry forward; explain why you did it, and how it's working out. I am pretty certain you've all seen this film, http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; PLEASE pass it along to everyone you know, EVERYWHERE, so that this tragedy will not occur again! History can NOT afford to repeat itself this time around.

John Sarter

 

[DaveEV]

...but NONE seem to believe it will last, just as the last attempt failed.

IMO - the cat has been let out of the bag and EVs (and plug-ins) are here to stay.

Nissan has sold 10s of thousands of them worldwide, GM has sold well over 10k Volts in the US and it looks like Toyota will sell around 10k Prius plug-ins this year. This is nothing like the last effort where the EV1 and RAV4-EV was only leased in very small quantities.

EV charging infrastructure is going up everywhere.

All the other manufacturers have plug-ins of one type or another due to hit the market very soon.

There's still a long way to go - there's a lot of FUD out there that comes with any type of change - but it will happen eventually. 3-5 years from now the EV/plug-in market will be a VERY different place.

 

[Sarterfish]

Drees, I believe as well that EV's are here to stay... We purchased our Leaf in November 2011 and ave over 7,000 gas free miles on it! , saving me about $2200 in gas over 5 months compared to what I was driving. The purpose of my post is to get us all to be ADVOCATES and ambassadors to the uneducated and gullible masses, which I suspect you already are! Keep up the good work!
-John

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I think the more open and gratuitous war that was mostly pushed by FauX news has shifted. They were successful in keeping sales down for a while, particularly of the Volt but they were eventually called out by pro energy independent conservatives and appear to have drastically cut back on the public smear. You can be sure that there is a major effort behind the scenes to try and keep the EV from gaining mass adoption, there is so much money at stake in the long term it's really no surprise.

At this point, I also recommend setting the record straight from one's direct experience and trying to stay away from the politics. the basic practicality and economy of this technology is what is selling it beyond the early fanboy adopters. On the upside, we may not have an overnight success here, but these cars are getting out to a growing number of folks worldwide who are not just seen as part of an EV1 cult, but more and more mainstream folks of a variety of political persuasions, all singing the praises of it and that suggests to me that we have made it over the biggest hump so far! I don't think EV's will go away, but it may take a while for the market to really heat up.

In my mind, the single most significant thing that could dramatically improve adoption is a big push for a nationwide DC QC charging network. It should be CHAdeMO for now, if some new standard evolves, then we'll all get some kind of adapters but all EV manufacturers need to get on board with quick charging, NOW! To me, Quick Charging spells "Game Over" for gas.

 

[Reddy]

This is the reason I purchased instead of leasing. Mine's here to stay. I plan to used it until the range is reduced to less than 10 miles (if I'm still able to drive at that age). And finally, I will never, ever, buy another gasoline-powered car again. Sorry Mister Oil, you're done.

Reddy

 

[Sarterfish]

EXCELLENT!!! That's what I like to hear!! Now, SPREAD IT ALLLLL AROUND!

 

[adric22]

This is the reason I purchased instead of leasing. Mine's here to stay. I plan to used it until the range is reduced to less than 10 miles (if I'm still able to drive at that age). And finally, I will never, ever, buy another gasoline-powered car again. Sorry Mister Oil, you're done.

I think I would not be able to handle 10 miles range. Maybe 20 and that would be pushing it. But I will agree about saying goodbye to oil. I've had my Leaf for a year and every time somebody asks me about the car I tell them "Its the best car I've ever owned and I'll never own another gasoline vehicle again." While I suppose that isn't entirely true. I might consider a plug-in hybrid but none of the ones on the market right now. It would have to be something truly advanced such as a microturbine engine or something.

As for the original post. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe much of the EV smearing will go away after the election. Despite being a republican myself, I see what my own party is doing. Many folks are automatically against anything that Obama is for, no matter what it is. And since Obama likes EVs, that makes any EV automatically an "obamacar" and something to be ridiculed. But once the election is over (regardless of who wins) I think that will be the end of that... at least, I hope it is.

I've seriously wondered if the oil companies really are out to kill EVs. They know they've just about reached Peak oil. Even Carlos Ghosn recently said that even with a large percentage of EVs in the next few years, the gasoline car is still a growth industry. Big oil has nothing to really gain this time around.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

We will own ICE for a while, till there is longer range - sufficient quick charging infrastructure, but to me looks like right now, lot of major auto companies want to enter EV world. Many people still have no clue that there is alternative to ICE, and shocked that Leaf does not have gas tank, but one word (two to be exact) that I hear very often is "cool car", because it is a cool car.

 

[cracovian]

This is the reason I purchased instead of leasing. Mine's here to stay. I plan to used it until the range is reduced to less than 10 miles (if I'm still able to drive at that age). And finally, I will never, ever, buy another gasoline-powered car again. Sorry Mister Oil, you're done.

Reddy

You will never buy one but you'll end up using one now and then, so it's not entirely fair since you'll be supporting the industry one way ot another. Exxon hasn't lost you YET!

 

[Sarterfish]

"I've seriously wondered if the oil companies really are out to kill EVs. They know they've just about reached Peak oil. Even Carlos Ghosn recently said that even with a large percentage of EVs in the next few years, the gasoline car is still a growth industry. Big oil has nothing to really gain this time around."

I think the major problem the Oil industry has with EV's is they give people a viable alternative to their ever more costly, ( in MANY ways), fuel source. They also have no possible profit from electricity as a fuel, unless they start buying up utility companies. (THAT wouldn't surprise me actually!). Who's going to pay for incredibly environmentally damaging and expensive tar and shale oil when there's a less expensive and MUCH cleaner alternative? This is why we're seeing all these phantom "studies" showing that EV's are not any "cleaner"... It is subtrifuge and deception at their best! I am hopeful that if we have a republican Whitehouse after the election, that they will not bow down to the MASSIVE Oil consituency...

 

[Reddy]

This is the reason I purchased instead of leasing. Mine's here to stay. I plan to used it until the range is reduced to less than 10 miles (if I'm still able to drive at that age). And finally, I will never, ever, buy another gasoline-powered car again. Sorry Mister Oil, you're done.

Reddy

You will never buy one but you'll end up using one now and then, so it's not entirely fair since you'll be supporting the industry one way ot another. Exxon hasn't lost you YET!

Yes, unfortunately, correct. I will still have my 20 yr old ICE (used it twice in the last 9 months. Hmmm, note to self: Check the battery). Also, to leave town in an automobile, I may have to rent an ICE, so yes, I will be supporting the industry. I also enjoy eating food, primarily transported by diesel trucks. Oil is amazing stuff, and very useful. Historically, I was never a big "auto/truck" person since I mostly bicycle around town (yup, even in the winter up to 6" snow). However, now I really enjoy driving the EV, though it's still not as nice as cycling when the weather's nice.

Reddy.

 

[Sarterfish]

There's NO doubt we'll all be supporting the oil industry for many years to come in one way or another... (plastic is an amazingly durable product for the right LONG TERM applications!), BUT it sure will be nice to see it phased out as a fuel source over time! Not anywhere near soon though, enough in my opinion!

 

[GRA]

I think the more open and gratuitous war that was mostly pushed by FauX news has shifted. They were successful in keeping sales down for a while, particularly of the Volt but they were eventually called out by pro energy independent conservatives and appear to have drastically cut back on the public smear. You can be sure that there is a major effort behind the scenes to try and keep the EV from gaining mass adoption, there is so much money at stake in the long term it's really no surprise.

At this point, I also recommend setting the record straight from one's direct experience and trying to stay away from the politics. the basic practicality and economy of this technology is what is selling it beyond the early fanboy adopters. On the upside, we may not have an overnight success here, but these cars are getting out to a growing number of folks worldwide who are not just seen as part of an EV1 cult, but more and more mainstream folks of a variety of political persuasions, all singing the praises of it and that suggests to me that we have made it over the biggest hump so far! I don't think EV's will go away, but it may take a while for the market to really heat up.

In my mind, the single most significant thing that could dramatically improve adoption is a big push for a nationwide DC QC charging network. It should be CHAdeMO for now, if some new standard evolves, then we'll all get some kind of adapters but all EV manufacturers need to get on board with quick charging, NOW! To me, Quick Charging spells "Game Over" for gas.

Amen to the highlighted portion, and I would add 'Battery Leasing', which will be a financial necessity if Fed. subsidies get repealed. It also allows for the option of battery exchange, even if that is unlikely to be financially viable outside of fleet use.

 

[kubel]

Big oil really has nothing to fear with this generation of EVs. I'm fascinated by electric drive to the point of obsession, but that hasn't made me delusional. Short of a game changer when it comes to electric energy storage technology or oil demand jacking up gas prices to over $6/gal, once the tax credit dries up, I think EVs will be tough to sell to the masses, much less the auto makers.

 

[GRA]

Big oil really has nothing to fear with this generation of EVs. I'm fascinated by electric drive to the point of obsession, but that hasn't made me delusional. Short of a game changer when it comes to electric energy storage technology or oil demand jacking up gas prices to over $6/gal, once the tax credit dries up, I think EVs will be tough to sell to the masses, much less the auto makers.

You sound like me. OTOH, the June issue of Motor Trend has a nice article by Frank Markus describing Envia's battery and some of the challenges that it still needs to meet (like getting the cycle life up to at least 1000 instead of 500+), as well as further-down-the-road technologies like PolyPlus' Lithium-Air battery; nothing really new to people here, but the info is at least getting out to a larger audience.

While I regard Envia's claims of 400Wh/kg. @ $125/kWh and 18 months to production as pie-in-the-sky, I won't be too surprised if sometime in the next 3-5 years a battery maker (not necessarily Envia) manages to commercialize a technology that provides double the specific energy at half the cost/kWh of current Li-Ion. I'm certainly not counting on it based on past experience, and think incremental improvements are more likely, but that would make BEVs a reasonable choice for a much larger number of people.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

... that would make BEVs a reasonable choice for a much larger number of people.

the price of the current Lithium Iron will come down with economy of scale and aside from that, I think in many other respects we are already there. We need a way of filling the glass faster more than we need a bigger glass. a couple dozen QC's in Washington state and I'd almost never have to use our ICE, we could buy a second EV and rent an ICE for long distance trips.

Once a QC network is in place, we'll have a much better sense of how crucial it is to sales and adoption.

 

[CWO4Mann]

This is the reason I purchased instead of leasing. Mine's here to stay. I plan to used it until the range is reduced to less than 10 miles (if I'm still able to drive at that age). And finally, I will never, ever, buy another gasoline-powered car again. Sorry Mister Oil, you're done.

I think I would not be able to handle 10 miles range. Maybe 20 and that would be pushing it. But I will agree about saying goodbye to oil. I've had my Leaf for a year and every time somebody asks me about the car I tell them "Its the best car I've ever owned and I'll never own another gasoline vehicle again." While I suppose that isn't entirely true. I might consider a plug-in hybrid but none of the ones on the market right now. It would have to be something truly advanced such as a microturbine engine or something.

As for the original post. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe much of the EV smearing will go away after the election. Despite being a republican myself, I see what my own party is doing. Many folks are automatically against anything that Obama is for, no matter what it is. And since Obama likes EVs, that makes any EV automatically an "obamacar" and something to be ridiculed. But once the election is over (regardless of who wins) I think that will be the end of that... at least, I hope it is.

I've seriously wondered if the oil companies really are out to kill EVs. They know they've just about reached Peak oil. Even Carlos Ghosn recently said that even with a large percentage of EVs in the next few years, the gasoline car is still a growth industry. Big oil has nothing to really gain this time around.

I believe that there is a more complex answer to this situation. First, most folks that I know who are anti-Obama are against ANYthing which comes out of what they perceive to be the liberal/progressive establishment. Second, many of the uber conservatives in my circle are conspiracy folks who see the hand of (take your pick) Satan, Chicago Thuggery, Alinsky, Bolshevism, and god knows what else keeping the Dead Hand of Lenin firmly on the Tiller of Life (to steal a phrase from Mao). The other folks I know who are "anti-EV" are unable to quantify their feelings other than to tell me that they "wouldn't be happy unless they could drive anyplace" -- again, whatever that means, maybe get in your car one morning and tell your wife that The Lord told you to drive to Omaha and you live in Boca Raton. On the other hand, I've spoken to several people who have a commute similar to mine, or about 30 miles per day with side trips sometimes to 50 or 75, and they want to drive an EV, particularly the Leaf, after I give them a test drive or two. So, we end up with people who will deny very basic facts (save your gas money, and beer with it for example in my case) and tie it to their fear of some demonic force, political entity, or an uncertainty of life in general. I don't find these folks to all be Conservatives (what are they called by some "Goopers"?) or radical liberals ("Libtards"?) but people who are just unwilling or unable to take a known technology, place it together with their personal situation, and make a decision which will benefit themselves. Bottom line is that while my grandfather used to tell me "Well, that Henry Ford sabotaged the Steam Cars, you know", I am not willing to totally discount Granfer's theories; let's say I WON'T be surprised if we find that Wall Street Imperialistic War Mongering Puppet Roaders are behind the anti-EV lore. BUt I also won't be surprised to discover that this is all transitory and a figment of our fevered imaginations.

 

[Nekota]

People just are not rational and the inability to rationalize a decision to give up the 250,000 mile range of ICE is too great. Then the whine about having to replace the battery starts - after a long pause I point out the new ICE they just bought will need $50,000 in gas for those 1/4 million miles if gas stays where it is. I also add that I don't know how much the battery replacement will cost nor how long it will last but I'm going to find out. Finally I point to a wall outlet and mention that's an EV refilling station, and they don't believe me. SO... I open up the trunk, pull out the EVSE and they are very surprised to see it really does plug into a wall socket.

The oil companies have nothing to fear or care about EV's. It's the general population that won't accept EV's because they know they don't work.

 

[klapauzius]

People just are not rational and the inability to rationalize a decision to give up the 250,000 mile range of ICE is too great. Then the whine about having to replace the battery starts - after a long pause I point out the new ICE they just bought will need $50,000 in gas for those 1/4 million miles if gas stays where it is. I also add that I don't know how much the battery replacement will cost nor how long it will last but I'm going to find out. Finally I point to a wall outlet and mention that's an EV refilling station, and they don't believe me. SO... I open up the trunk, pull out the EVSE and they are very surprised to see it really does plug into a wall socket.

The oil companies have nothing to fear or care about EV's. It's the general population that won't accept EV's because they know they don't work.

Dont worry, understanding will eventually come through their pocket books as the price of oil and gas will inevitably go up and up.

 

[cwerdna]

It really comes as no surprise that the people she is speaking are all aware of and speak of the "smear campaign" being waged against EV's by the Oil & Gas industries, AND the auto industry as well. (Did you notice how there was NO fanfare with the release of the Ford Focus EV? Have you seen even ONE commercial for it?) The attack is somewhat silent, and VERY insidious.

As for the lack of FFE advertising, I doubt that's due to a smear campaign. See http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1075368_2012-ford-focus-electric-small-ad-budget-due-to-low-sales-of-volt-fisker" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/13/ford-focus-electrics-ads-going-online-because-evs-not-yet-read/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Re: smear campaigns in general, for those of you hear who have Priuses or are hybrid enthusiasts. Both Priuses and hybrids have been the attacked by all sorts of smear campaigns (or something like that) for years such as the thoroughly debunked CNW "junk science" that still refuses to die to this day (e.g. Hummer/Tahoe/Land Rover greener than a Prius). It didn't help that Top Gear with its hundreds of millions of viewers help spread that nonsense. There are still large numbers of people who will believe that drivel or the fragments they hear about it.

Probably the most recent is the dubious Polk "study" (http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-ev-alt-fuel-news/106828-dubious-polk-study-only-35-hybrid-vehicle-owners-choose-purchase-hybrid-again.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false w/all sorts of media picking up on the "findings".

It's extremely annoying, at best. Who knows where all this garbage is coming from, but there are numerous possibilities.