Steal Your Battery program: Any news? Hello Nissan?

[DaveinOlyWA]

The slow response from Nissan is a reason I feel Tesla has a better chance of being the dominate EV player in the future. Decision making is too slow. I see immediate response from Elon Musk regarding various issues and concerns regarding Tesla's vehicles.

it would be great to see Tesla offer a line of EVs that cover every need and pocketbook but I think that would be a mistake. they are doing very well in the high end market and I think that is where they should stay. Now, if they offered a great family sedan with 120 miles of range in the upper 20's, then ok I am with that. But I don't think they will and I think its a good idea that they don't.

 

[derkraut]

Nope, I mean the Smart, the i-miev, the Spark, the Fortwo, and the like... But if they manage to bring out something in the price range of the Leaf SL that maintains the Tesla feature set, it may in fact be true that they'll eat up the Leaf market as well...

Tom T said: "Yep, unless they somehow screw up badly in the years ahead - which is unlikely - I think they will own the market for other than cheap, little, crappy EVs..."
If you're inferring that the Nissan Leaf is a cheap, little, crappy EV, I beg to disagree with you. :?

Well Tom---I agree with you on that score fer sure.

 

[thankyouOB]

The slow response from Nissan is a reason I feel Tesla has a better chance of being the dominate EV player in the future. Decision making is too slow. I see immediate response from Elon Musk regarding various issues and concerns regarding Tesla's vehicles.

it would be great to see Tesla offer a line of EVs that cover every need and pocketbook but I think that would be a mistake. they are doing very well in the high end market and I think that is where they should stay. Now, if they offered a great family sedan with 120 miles of range in the upper 20's, then ok I am with that. But I don't think they will and I think its a good idea that they don't.

musk has said his plan was the roadster, the S and then to use the money and momentum from that to build a mass-market EV at a lower price. my guess is that was LEAF level or a tad above.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

my guess is that was LEAF level or a tad above.

Tesla, even for the gen iii car is aiming at premium. They're lower priced car is looking to compete with a BMW 3 series. Expect it to be in the 30k range probably after tax rebate etc.

 

[TomT]

I think it would sell like hot cakes!

Tesla, even for the gen iii car is aiming at premium. They're lower priced car is looking to compete with a BMW 3 series. Expect it to be in the 30k range probably after tax rebate etc.

 

[myleaf]

my guess is that was LEAF level or a tad above.

Tesla, even for the gen iii car is aiming at premium. They're lower priced car is looking to compete with a BMW 3 series. Expect it to be in the 30k range probably after tax rebate etc.

Tesla tax ?

 

[thankyouOB]

i just want to remind people, the world and Nissan that this thread asks for a fair price for a new battery, the old core and the installation WITHOUT having any of that set by the dealership.
my local dealer charged its own corporate repair shop $3900 as a subcontractor to remove and store and reinstall the battery for a paint job during a collision repair.
how can that make sense?

 

[GerryAZ]

i just want to remind people, the world and Nissan that this thread asks for a fair price for a new battery, the old core and the installation WITHOUT having any of that set by the dealership.
my local dealer charged its own corporate repair shop $3900 as a subcontractor to remove and store and reinstall the battery for a paint job during a collision repair.
how can that make sense?

They probably charged the body shop portion of the dealership a very high price for handling the battery because they thought it was covered by insurance.

I once had a dealership body shop repaint both front fenders which had no scratches and looked like brand new as part of a collision repair that involved hood, grill, radiator, windshield, etc. replacement. When I questioned it, they claimed they had to paint the fenders to make them match the hood even though it was a white vehicle and they should have used factory original paint. I am sure they did it to increase their profit at the expense of the insurance company.

Back on topic--removing the battery pack, replacing modules, and reinstalling the battery pack should only take a few hours of labor (process looks relatively easy in the service manual) so it really should not cost a fortune.


Gerry

 

[TonyWilliams]

Now, if [Tesla] offered a great family sedan with 120 miles of range in the upper 20's, then ok I am with that. But I don't think they will and I think its a good idea that they don't.

They are talking about a 200 mile car in 4-5 years, at a $30k price. We already know how that can be interpreted:

$30k could mean $39.9k, and that might be with the $7.5k fed tax credit, which means a $47.4k car. Then, the next "scam" is that is quoted in 2009 dollars (the aircraft manufacturers pull this one) and by 2018, that means $55k in 2018 dollars. Then throw in every option at $1500 a pop, $1500 destination charge, et al...

 

[thankyouOB]

why do insurance companies authorize such extra painting and hysterical pricing to remove store reinstall a battery?

this was all approved by their estimator.

oh, and memorial day is when summer starts, at least according to the news.

 

[TomT]

We shall see of course but these days I have a lot more faith in Tesla than in Nissan...

They are talking about a 200 mile car in 4-5 years, at a $30k price. We already know how that can be interpreted:
$30k could mean $39.9k, and that might be with the $7.5k fed tax credit, which means a $47.4k car. Then, the next "scam" is that is quoted in 2009 dollars (the aircraft manufacturers pull this one) and by 2018, that means $55k in 2018 dollars. Then throw in every option at $1500 a pop, $1500 destination charge, et al...

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

The Leaf is already a sub 30K car (before rebate), that can do over 100 without too much work. (Even Tesla is talking more ideal then EPA range.) For 2015, Guessing the leaf will see its next range bump.

That said, I really like Teslas, and might opt for one some day..

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Now, if [Tesla] offered a great family sedan with 120 miles of range in the upper 20's, then ok I am with that. But I don't think they will and I think its a good idea that they don't.

They are talking about a 200 mile car in 4-5 years, at a $30k price. We already know how that can be interpreted:

$30k could mean $39.9k, and that might be with the $7.5k fed tax credit, which means a $47.4k car. Then, the next "scam" is that is quoted in 2009 dollars (the aircraft manufacturers pull this one) and by 2018, that means $55k in 2018 dollars. Then throw in every option at $1500 a pop, $1500 destination charge, et al...

the way everyone is talking about Tesla, they wont have any fed discounts left in 4-5 years. I think Tesla will be just like any high end car manufacturer where their "cheap" is only relative to the other cars in the lineup.

I think Tesla is a great company and they have done great things but to think they are going to be the "be all that is all" is simply crazy. and to think we are going to see a mass migration to $50,000 + cars is just as crazy. if that is what it will take for EVs to be successful, you might as well kill them now.

now, there will come a time when power storage options will be cheaper but when that comes, there will be a flood on the market like highly efficient 4 cylinder cars in the upper teens. Is Tesla going to jump into that? I don't think so. they have distinguished themselves as a car company that is "cut from a different cloth". for them to try to compete at the mass consumer level is a mistake.

 

[GRA]

Now, if [Tesla] offered a great family sedan with 120 miles of range in the upper 20's, then ok I am with that. But I don't think they will and I think its a good idea that they don't.

They are talking about a 200 mile car in 4-5 years, at a $30k price. We already know how that can be interpreted:

$30k could mean $39.9k, and that might be with the $7.5k fed tax credit, which means a $47.4k car. Then, the next "scam" is that is quoted in 2009 dollars (the aircraft manufacturers pull this one) and by 2018, that means $55k in 2018 dollars. Then throw in every option at $1500 a pop, $1500 destination charge, et al...

the way everyone is talking about Tesla, they wont have any fed discounts left in 4-5 years. I think Tesla will be just like any high end car manufacturer where their "cheap" is only relative to the other cars in the lineup.

I think Tesla is a great company and they have done great things but to think they are going to be the "be all that is all" is simply crazy. and to think we are going to see a mass migration to $50,000 + cars is just as crazy. if that is what it will take for EVs to be successful, you might as well kill them now.

now, there will come a time when power storage options will be cheaper but when that comes, there will be a flood on the market like highly efficient 4 cylinder cars in the upper teens. Is Tesla going to jump into that? I don't think so. they have distinguished themselves as a car company that is "cut from a different cloth". for them to try to compete at the mass consumer level is a mistake.

Here's what Elon said back in March:

"Over Twitter when responding to one of his followers, Musk said that the small sedan would be about the size of an Audi A4 or BMW 3 Series, have fewer standard features than the Model S, and would start at about $30,000 in 2013 dollars, not including inflation. He said that it will have a greater than 200-mile range."

So, with the X now being officially pushed back to late 2014, that means 2017 or 2018 _at the earliest_ for the $30k car. Can they manage 200 miles, EPA or otherwise, for that price (2013 dollars) by then? Who the hell knows, but I'd rather see them shoot for it and fall a bit short than not try. Encourages the other companies to push themselves as well.

The RAV4 EV falls about 25% short of that range-wise and would need to drop the price by 40% to get there, so whether range can be increased while also dropping the price by that much in just four or five years from now seems difficult nigh unto impossible. But I'll give Elon points for setting a high bar for the company and himself, and maybe we'll see the battery price/technology breakthrough we've all been waiting for that will make it possible.

 

[evnow]

Here's what Elon said back in March:

"Over Twitter when responding to one of his followers, Musk said that the small sedan would be about the size of an Audi A4 or BMW 3 Series, have fewer standard features than the Model S, and would start at about $30,000 in 2013 dollars, not including inflation. He said that it will have a greater than 200-mile range."

Lately he has been saying half the price of Model S - or about $35k.

Anyway, Tesla will make this car, when the battery is cheap enough. So will Nissan.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I think that is the thing, the battery unit costs are now dropping every quarter as the volumes start trickling up. In our minivan, we only get 160 miles to the tank (full to 1/4 tank)...and that is usually over a week. The Leaf already replaces the range aspect of what we need. If range goes from 75 to say 125 (which translates to usable range of 150-175 miles per the users of this board), then with a few well positioned quick chargers really consider going cross country.

 

[LEAFfan]

why do insurance companies authorize such extra painting and hysterical pricing to remove store reinstall a battery?

this was all approved by their estimator.

oh, and memorial day is when summer starts, at least according to the news.

Which crazy news station said that? Fox?
The first day of summer is always on the summer solstice which is June 21st this year.

 

[TimLee]

If range goes from 75 to say 125 (which translates to usable range of 150-175 miles per the users of this board), then with a few well positioned quick chargers really consider going cross country.

What in the world are you talking about? :roll: :roll:
The 2013 LEAF has an EPA rating of 75.
With extremely careful driving, 100% charge, brand new zero degradation battery, you might get the 75 up to 90 to 105 miles.
But very few people accomplish that in normal driving.
The 75 EPA is a reasonable number, and the real world driving for most people after some amount of battery degradation translates into the LEAF being nominally a 40 to 60 miles range vehicle.
You can go cross country with a 24 kWh LEAF if there are enough reliable DCFC stations.
But it is completely impractical for most people.
At the very best you will be lucky to average 20 to 30 mph overall.
Tolerable if you're going 200 miles and planning to stay a week, but not exactly a cross country vehicle.
A very large 85 kWH pack like the Tesla S is much better, because the charging up to 70% to 80% is much faster than the top 20% to 30%.
But even with the Tesla S, cross country will still be hard pressed to average much better than 40 mph to 50 mph on a 500 miles in a day trip.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

TimLee,

Agreed the average user will only bounce around the EPA, but the people on this board are not average users. Admittedly, I am only a week into my leaf, but with careful driving, keeping 1 mile per percent SOC is pretty easily achievable, and I have not moved to some of hte more advanced tactics like long neutral rolling.

Tony W, I did some freeway tests today. At 55mph, no speakable wind, relatively flat Chicagoland, I was at almost dead on 1 mile per %SOC (nearly new battery). At 62, it falls to about .85, which would concur with your tests of being able to do about 80-85 miles on a full charge. No AC/Heat, just a low fan and radio in terms of power. I was doing about an 8 mile run in each direction up and down the Edens. It seems like if you can stand being in the slow lane, driving 52-55 is the way to go.

 

[LEAFfan]

TimLee,

Agreed the average user will only bounce around the EPA, but the people on this board are not average users. Admittedly, I am only a week into my leaf, but with careful driving, keeping 1 mile per percent SOC is pretty easily achievable, and I have not moved to some of hte more advanced tactics like long neutral rolling.

Tony W, I did some freeway tests today. At 55mph, no speakable wind, relatively flat Chicagoland, I was at almost dead on 1 mile per %SOC (nearly new battery). At 62, it falls to about .85, which would concur with your tests of being able to do about 80-85 miles on a full charge. No AC/Heat, just a low fan and radio in terms of power. I was doing about an 8 mile run in each direction up and down the Edens. It seems like if you can stand being in the slow lane, driving 52-55 is the way to go.

Doug, I haven't tried it yet, but at 55mph (52-53 actual), I believe I could go 100 mi.