Steal Your Battery program: Any news? Hello Nissan?

[GRA]

Too expensive, I don't lease cars. I'll buy and hold, but I won't lease.

Right now I can buy a low mileage used leaf with 12 bars showing for $16,000 and if Nissan doesn't get ahead of this before the 3/4 bar lists on the wiki start filling up I'll have more cheap used Leafs to choose from as they tank the resale value by killing word of mouth and flooding the used market with "bar loss leafs" (even if most of them only have 2 bars lost they'll have a stigma living under the shadow of losing the 3rd or 4th bar).

Leasing a leaf right now would cost me something like $5000 over the two years. I'd need the lease to be <$3500 for 24 months to approach the rate I'm paying on buying a used car and holding for 8 years.

That's an interesting analysis and if the range of a degraded LEAF works, as it would for many, it is a good strategy. Yes, the advent of a used LEAF market changes things. Those of us who decided to take the plunge and pick up a LEAF as soon as they were available didn't have that option but I, for one, certainly knew it would be more cost effective to wait for the used market to develop (since buying used makes more sense for any car). It is the price we paid to be early adopters. And part of my decision was based on trying to make the first mass-produced EV a success because it is a "big deal" to me; perhaps that was foolish.

But I do wish I had leased because the technology is changing so quickly and I am pushing the range of the LEAF for some trips in my remote rural area. Since I did purchase my car and it would be best to keep it for 20+ years, I am very interested in the replacement battery cost. It would also help a lot if we had public charge stations here so I could keep the old battery going longer, but that's another issue.

IIRR, people are willing to let you to charge in some of the intermediate points you pass through, so I wonder what it would cost you to pay to install L2s (or just appropriate circuits you could use with one of Phil's EVSE upgrades or similar) in a couple of places you need them, as opposed to buying a new battery (assuming Nissan ever provides that info)? As EVSE prices have come down, maybe it would be cheaper and quicker.

 

[thankyouOB]

it is JUNE, Andy.
Do you know where your battery replacement TPs are?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Only 18 days now? They must be finalizing the clip art in the powerpoint.

 

[TomT]

And adding the multimedia and sound!

Only 18 days now? They must be finalizing the clip art in the powerpoint.

 

[cwerdna]

it is JUNE, Andy.
Do you know where your battery replacement TPs are?

Are you talking about TPS reports? Gotta use a new cover sheet...

 

[dgpcolorado]

IIRR, people are willing to let you to charge in some of the intermediate points you pass through, so I wonder what it would cost you to pay to install L2s (or just appropriate circuits you could use with one of Phil's EVSE upgrades or similar) in a couple of places you need them, as opposed to buying a new battery (assuming Nissan ever provides that info)? As EVSE prices have come down, maybe it would be cheaper and quicker.

I can charge in Silverton when crossing the mountains, by using a 240 V plug at an EV friendly motel. But my main grocery shopping destination city doesn't have any, so far as I am aware. I have seriously mulled over asking a friend to put in a 240 V plug, for which I would pay. But the ideal solution would be an L2 charge station at a supermarket since I am going to be there for a while anyway. I have several options to keep my winter grocery runs doable for at least another Winter or two before I need to look into other solutions.

However, I am envious of those who have public L2 stations available because an hour or so at L2 figures to keep me going on the current battery for eight years at least. Most of my trips are very short, 18 and 41 miles, so it is only the 65 mile grocery run in Winter every eight to ten days that will become a problem as my battery degrades. Of course, if I have to ICE it for a couple of months in Winter, it isn't that big of a deal!

 

[shrink]

I haven't read through this whole thread, buy it looks like the 2011-2012 16 kWh Volt battery pack can purchased for $2600. I assume this is an exchange price:

http://www.newgmparts.com/parts/2011/CHEVROLET/VOLT/?siteid=213815&vehicleid=1447713&section=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&group=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&subgroup=BATTERY&component=BATTERY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So using that price point 24 kWh should be $3900-$4000 exchanged + installation.

That said, I don't understand the urgency. Is any LEAF owner currently in the market for a new battery? Warranty will still cover failures, a handful of Phoenix owners got buybacks, and many are riding out leases.

The car is selling well and the battery seems to be holding up well in non-desert areas.

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't read through this whole thread, buy it looks like the 2011-2012 16 kWh Volt battery pack can purchased for $2600. I assume this is an exchange price:

http://www.newgmparts.com/parts/2011/CHEVROLET/VOLT/?siteid=213815&vehicleid=1447713&section=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&group=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&subgroup=BATTERY&component=BATTERY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So using that price point 24 kWh should be $3900-$4000 exchanged + installation.

That said, I don't understand the urgency. Is any LEAF owner currently in the market for a new battery? Warranty will still cover failures, a handful of Phoenix owners got buybacks, and many are riding out leases.

I remember reading discussion about the Volt battery prices before and it sounds way too cheap, IIRC.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has wanted the price on a pack for awhile. He finally lost his 1st capacity bar on June 1st (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12781" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false at 78,600 miles!

As for urgency, I guess others just want to know and want Nissan to make good on their promise of "spring".

 

[thankyouOB]

I haven't read through this whole thread, buy it looks like the 2011-2012 16 kWh Volt battery pack can purchased for $2600. I assume this is an exchange price:

http://www.newgmparts.com/parts/2011/CHEVROLET/VOLT/?siteid=213815&vehicleid=1447713&section=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&group=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&subgroup=BATTERY&component=BATTERY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So using that price point 24 kWh should be $3900-$4000 exchanged + installation.

That said, I don't understand the urgency. Is any LEAF owner currently in the market for a new battery? Warranty will still cover failures, a handful of Phoenix owners got buybacks, and many are riding out leases.

The car is selling well and the battery seems to be holding up well in non-desert areas.

wanna sell your 2011?
wanna buy a used 2011?

wanna new LEAF but dont know what a battery will cost down the road?

everyone has lost some range and will lose more. planning for the future is good.
obviously, you can sit tight and wait, but owning a 20+k thingee and not knowing what it costs to make it fully useful, is bothersome.

 

[DaveEV]

wanna new LEAF but dont know what a battery will cost down the road?

obviously, you can sit tight and wait, but owning a 20+k thingee and not knowing what it costs to make it fully useful, is bothersome.

Why don't you call Steve @ http://www.autobeyours.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and ask him what it costs for a LEAF battery pack? He appears to have several parts cars available.

Personally, I'm curious to know if the '13 LEAF pack is a drop-in replacement for the '11-12.

 

[dgpcolorado]

wanna sell your 2011?
wanna buy a used 2011?

wanna new LEAF but dont know what a battery will cost down the road?

everyone has lost some range and will lose more. planning for the future is good.
obviously, you can sit tight and wait, but owning a 20+k thingee and not knowing what it costs to make it fully useful, is bothersome.

Exactly. If the battery replacement cost is prohibitive—I'm guessing it won't be—it might be best for those of us with older cars, and are pushing the limits of the range, to sell now, take the BIG loss, and upgrade to a leased newer model. If the cost is reasonable, continuing to drive the car and replacing the battery when needed becomes a viable option.

Can't make that calculation without knowing the replacement cost. It matters.

 

[kovalb]

Personally, I'm curious to know if the '13 LEAF pack is a drop-in replacement for the '11-12.

Although the pack is the same size the connections are not the same. Therefore some adapters would be required. Since dealers do not have anything like that at this time I am guessing this could be one of the reasons for no response yet about the battery pricing.

 

[dhanson865]

Too expensive, I don't lease cars. I'll buy and hold, but I won't lease.

Right now I can buy a low mileage used leaf with 12 bars showing for $16,000 and if Nissan doesn't get ahead of this before the 3/4 bar lists on the wiki start filling up I'll have more cheap used Leafs to choose from as they tank the resale value by killing word of mouth and flooding the used market with "bar loss leafs" (even if most of them only have 2 bars lost they'll have a stigma living under the shadow of losing the 3rd or 4th bar).

Leasing a leaf right now would cost me something like $5000 over the two years. I'd need the lease to be <$3500 for 24 months to approach the rate I'm paying on buying a used car and holding for 8 years.

8 yrs starting with 2 bars down? Must be counting on degradation will slow significantly. Right now I see losing a bar every year.

Look back at the first sentence that includes "Right now I can buy a low mileage used leaf with 12 bars showing".

While I did mention leafs with lost bars, I did so only to discuss how their existence affects reputation and thus resale value.

And as to the possibility of me buying a leaf with 2-4 lost capacity bars that just depends on what it'd cost to get a replacement battery pack.

I never said I'd keep a car for 8 years without replacing parts.

 

[thankyouOB]

wanna new LEAF but dont know what a battery will cost down the road?

obviously, you can sit tight and wait, but owning a 20+k thingee and not knowing what it costs to make it fully useful, is bothersome.

Why don't you call Steve @ http://www.autobeyours.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and ask him what it costs for a LEAF battery pack? He appears to have several parts cars available.

Personally, I'm curious to know if the '13 LEAF pack is a drop-in replacement for the '11-12.

I am NOT interested in a used pack from a crashed leaf.
since it is your idea, drees, you could call Steve, and let us all know; maybe out of the spirit of cooperation, if you are interested in used packs.

 

[thankyouOB]

Personally, I'm curious to know if the '13 LEAF pack is a drop-in replacement for the '11-12.

this is misquoted. i did not say the above. drees said it.

 

[N952JL]

i dont think that is it, dave.
small companies - especially owner-controlled companies - have the ability to be nimble; that doesnt mean they are.
large ones might wish to be nimble, but they dont have the ability.

this is the reason IBM formed the PC computer division as a seperate company, and later broke out the printers as Lexmark.

 

[N952JL]

The slow response from Nissan is a reason I feel Tesla has a better chance of being the dominate EV player in the future. Decision making is too slow. I see immediate response from Elon Musk regarding various issues and concerns regarding Tesla's vehicles.

it would be great to see Tesla offer a line of EVs that cover every need and pocketbook but I think that would be a mistake. they are doing very well in the high end market and I think that is where they should stay. Now, if they offered a great family sedan with 120 miles of range in the upper 20's, then ok I am with that. But I don't think they will and I think its a good idea that they don't.

I believe that Tesla will offer a family sedan with a 200 mile range in the mid 30's within 8 years.

 

[N952JL]

why do insurance companies authorize such extra painting and hysterical pricing to remove store reinstall a battery?

this was all approved by their estimator.

oh, and memorial day is when summer starts, at least according to the news.

Which crazy news station said that? Fox?
The first day of summer is always on the summer solstice which is June 21st this year.

Memorial day may not be the first day of summer but it is the first day of the Summer Season. The Air Force calles it the 101 days of summer (Memorial day to Labor day). I believe it began with the last day of the school year, which in the south was around Memorial day to the first week of June.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Exactly. If the battery replacement cost is prohibitive—I'm guessing it won't be—it might be best for those of us with older cars, and are pushing the limits of the range, to sell now, take the BIG loss, and upgrade to a leased newer model. If the cost is reasonable, continuing to drive the car and replacing the battery when needed becomes a viable option.

If I were one who had purchased and could live with degraded range I'd be inclined to wait and see how this plays out. If the capacity loss really gets bad I bet they do something for you. You know Nissan is a big bureaucracy that is struggling to figure out how to deal with this but they don't want unhappy customers. There will probably be some goodwill stuff coming, not to mention the class action lawsuits. The outcome you hope for there will be better/extended warranty coverage, not money, as the lawyers will take all that and you'll get like eight cents. Taking a big loss on the car now might be harder to collect anything back later, they will just say the car declined in value with market conditions.

 

[myleaf]

It has been two weeks since the last update from Jeff. It would be nice to get another response, even if it is just a "hello"

This is Jeff from Nissan:

I did receive FairwoodRed's email and I did see the posting. I haven't engaged, because quite frankly I haven't had anything to report, and I certainly didn't want to tease or insult anyone by posting "hellos". I have responded to a number of direct emails, and I will continue to do so.

A point on the battery issues: I can tell you that this is a top subject within Nissan. It is still being worked on every day -- as much as you may find that hard to believe. In addition to the working team's activities, Billy has presented an update to the Executive Committee every month since the Arizona meeting.

This may or may not be of interest, but I think that it signifies that the Nissan executives intend for Nissan to be the EV and zero emissions leader for a long time: as of April 1, Billy reports directly to the COO, Shiga-san, and Shiga-san is now the chairman of an EV steering committee which meets regularly to identify any issues -- whether product-, service-, or sales-related -- and determine corrective actions.

Finally, Andy's definition of Spring. Andy has every intention of reporting on the issues prior to or by the time Spring is ended. Although many of us might cite Memorial Day as the end of Spring and the start of Summer, the official date of is June 20th.

You can write to me anytime. Ask me whatever is on your mind.

Jeff